It's all George W. Bush's fault! **politics thread**

[tigerdave]

Looks like there may be more (http://globallabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/behind-annenberg-gate-inside-chicago.html) to the Obama-Ayers relationship (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/08/the-chicago-ann.html) than originally reported (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/08/almost-like-rep.html)--er, believed. And some (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/ap_on_el_pr/obama_records) people apparently don't want the details (http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=MTgwZTVmN2QyNzk2MmUxMzA5OTg0ODZlM2Y2OGI0NDM) to get out.

[Howard Zinn]

The right-wing smear machine is in full flow again, I see. It's a shame the Democrats can never put a candidate up for election that has the spine to throw the dirt right back. That would be supremely amusing.

[City Dave]

Yeah, like there haven't been negative adds against McCain and other Republicans.

You've got to be kidding.

[Howard Zinn]

Yeah, like there haven't been negative adds against McCain and other Republicans.

You've got to be kidding.


Pssstt, did you know that Obama is a Muslim? Obama...Osama...think about it.

:rolleyes:

[City Dave]

Pssstt, did you know that Obama is a Muslim? Obama...Osama...think about it.

:rolleyes:

Way to completely not address my point.

[tigerdave]

Pssstt, did you know that Obama is a Muslim? Obama...Osama...think about it.

:rolleyes:

Did I mention he's black?


Oh, wait, that was Obama. My bad. Back to the right-wing-smear-tactics drawing board. ;)

[Howard Zinn]

Way to completely not address my point.

What exactly was your point? I stated what was obvious to everyone. Republicans have won two presidential elections in a row by making personal attacks and making the election about how stiff, boring, or pussified the opponent is, whilst distracting from their horrible policies. Unfortunately, their opponent this round isn't stiff or boring. Quite the opposite, in fact, he's the most charismatic politician to come along in a while. Thank god he's black and has a funny sounding name though. Otherwise, Republicans might actually be held accountable for their actions.

It's especially ironic that this is coming from you, someone that is supposedly from Cleveland. How is that economy doing there in the great state of Ohio? Sure gotta love those Bush economic policies, ey?

Did I mention he's black?


Oh, wait, that was Obama. My bad. Back to the right-wing-smear-tactics drawing board. ;)


That was particularly amusing because when Obama does respond to the absurd, negative attacks against him (don't even deny some of the stuff that circulates about him that doesn't "officially" come from the McCain campaign), he's the one that gets made into the bad guy.

Personally, I probably won't even vote in the upcoming election, so don't come shooting the neutral messenger, but the Republican party is a joke and has been for a while. I have nothing against conservatives, even those clinging to their guns and bibles ;) , but I'd like to actually see the Republican party, the party that is supposed to represent those conservatives, run an election with their policies at the forfront instead of the other candidate's personality.

[tigerdave]

That was particularly amusing because when Obama does respond to the absurd, negative attacks against him (don't even deny some of the stuff that circulates about him that doesn't "officially" come from the McCain campaign), he's the one that gets made into the bad guy.

Personally, I probably won't even vote in the upcoming election, so don't come shooting the neutral messenger, but the Republican party is a joke and has been for a while. I have nothing against conservatives, even those clinging to their guns and bibles ;) , but I'd like to actually see the Republican party, the party that is supposed to represent those conservatives, run an election with their policies at the forfront instead of the other candidate's personality.

Bush's third term? Failed economic policies of Bush? 100 years in Iraq? Yeah, you're right the Dems are saints :rolleyes:. That's politics, like it or not.

And the Republicans have failed to run in the general interests of conservatives for a while now. Reagan ain't walking through that door either. But whoever we nominate is better than the terrorist-fraternizing, tax-raising Marxist disguised as a Messiah. :)

[Howard Zinn]

Bush's third term? Failed economic policies of Bush? 100 years in Iraq? Yeah, you're right the Dems are saints :rolleyes:. That's politics, like it or not.

Dude, you're making my point for me. McCain said that he would spend another 100 years in Iraq if he had too, and his economic policy by and large is exactly the same as Bush's, just with a few tacked-on gimicks to boost popular support (to be fair, Obama has unfortunatley went the economic gimick route too...tapping the national oil reserve is horribly stupid idea to gain votes). The point being, the Obama campaign isn't circulating stuff through nasty organizations calling McCain a geezer that can't get his dick up (although they should :D ).

And the Republicans have failed to run in the general interests of conservatives for a while now. Reagan ain't walking through that door either. But whoever we nominate is better than the terrorist-fraternizing, tax-raising Marxist disguised as a Messiah. :)

Atleast you are reasonable about the recent failings of the Republican party. Like I said, I have nothing against conservatives, though I disagree with them about basically everything. I just think they should take their party back and make it conform to their ideals, not the other way around.

[tigerdave]

Dude, you're making my point for me. McCain said that he would spend another 100 years in Iraq if he had too, and his economic policy by and large is exactly the same as Bush's, just with a few tacked-on gimicks to boost popular support (to be fair, Obama has unfortunatley went the economic gimick route too...tapping the national oil reserve is horribly stupid idea to gain votes). The point being, the Obama campaign isn't circulating stuff through nasty organizations calling McCain a geezer that can't get his dick up (although they should :D ).

Actually, the point I was making was that Obama is slating the McCain just as McCain is slating Obama. Took the 100 years comment out of context and is just using Bush to try and strike fear of another four years of Bush into the hearts of voters. McCain is not Bush. May be Bush-like in a few aspects but he's not Bush.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not thrilled with McCain as a presidential option. I would have much rather had Mitt or Huckabee or Thompson. But as I said before, he's miles better than Obama in my opinion. But I don't think there's a way to take the party back, short of starting another one. But then the Dems would always win and we can't have that. ;)

[Howard Zinn]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not thrilled with McCain as a presidential option. I would have much rather had Mitt or Huckabee or Thompson.


I totally would have voted for Huckabee. He would have been a horrible president, but he would come up with some killer one-liners. The Colbert Report would reach new heights with that man in charge.

[Russell1892]

Isn't Huckabee the guy who doesn't believe in Evolution? If he'd been elected I would have given up all hope for your country.

[JaredSS07]

Not trying to make a statement about Obama or start a Google-citation war about his policies... but this is a funny picture.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/JaredSS07/obama.jpg

I also like the Facebook group that Dirt just joined about how McCain should be a WalMart greeter.

[City Dave]

The right-wing smear machine is in full flow again, I see. It's a shame the Democrats can never put a candidate up for election that has the spine to throw the dirt right back. That would be supremely amusing.

Yeah, like there haven't been negative adds against McCain and other Republicans.

You've got to be kidding.

Pssstt, did you know that Obama is a Muslim? Obama...Osama...think about it.

:rolleyes:

Way to completely not address my point.

What exactly was your point?

My point was that the Democrats and Obama use the same tactics as any other politician.

Perfect example that just fell in my lap as you're going on about the above.

BihJmnHTCM4

[tigerdave]

I listened to some of that speech introducing Biden. There were parts that were okay, and parts where I threw up in my mouth a little. Par for the course, I guess. ;)

[Howard Zinn]

My point was that the Democrats and Obama use the same tactics as any other politician.

Perfect example that just fell in my lap as you're going on about the above.

BihJmnHTCM4


So when McCain can't remember how many homes he has and then his campaign tries to lie about the number, that's the Democrats playing dirty? :eek:

And it's convenient of you to ignore that Obama ran an incredibly clean campaign all the way through the Democratic primaries and through the early portions of this presidential race. He's going negative because the McCain campaign is forcing his hand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082003960.html

Why exactly did McCain need to bring in the "Silver Bullet" to defeat Obama? What happened to the good old days of the straight talk express? I guess staying on topic and debating the issues honestly is the last thing old man McCain wants to do at this point.

[tigerdave]

Why exactly did McCain need to bring in the "Silver Bullet" to defeat Obama? What happened to the good old days of the straight talk express? I guess staying on topic and debating the issues honestly is the last thing old man McCain wants to do at this point.

When it involves debates with softball-tossing left-of-center moderators, I don't exactly blame him. Who was it that didn't want to go toe to toe in the unscripted town halls again?

Props to Obama for picking a VP who doesn't believe that the White House is the place for otj training. Major irony points there. :D

[Howard Zinn]

When it involves debates with softball-tossing left-of-center moderators, I don't exactly blame him. Who was it that didn't want to go toe to toe in the unscripted town halls again?



I can't remember where I read it, but someone recently wrote that the major difference between the way Obama and McCain talk is this (paraphrased):

"McCain makes the complex overly simple, and Obama makes the simple overly complex."

Obama is smart not to debate McCain in a town hall situation because those sorts of debates favor the simple, certain speech of someone like McCain/Bush, not the overly intellectual style of Obama/Gore.

[tigerdave]

I can't remember where I read it, but someone recently wrote that the major difference between the way Obama and McCain talk is this (paraphrased):

"McCain makes the complex overly simple, and Obama makes the simple overly complex."

Obama is smart not to debate McCain in a town hall situation because those sorts of debates favor the simple, certain speech of someone like McCain/Bush, not the overly intellectual style of Obama/Gore.

Right. And in town halls the questions aren't as scripted, and there are no teleprompters. :) Did you not watch the Saddleback forum? Obama was awful.

[Howard Zinn]

Right. And in town halls the questions aren't as scripted, and there are no teleprompters. :) Did you not watch the Saddleback forum? Obama was awful.


I refuse to watch candidates for the highest political office in the land debate in a church with a pastor overseeing the whole thing. I suppose I'm one of the few people left in this country that remembers that whole seperation of church and state thing. ;)

But I'll go out on a limb and say that McCain made the world seem like a straight forward battle between good and evil, as he always does, and Obama made the world seem like a muddled mess that is incomprehensible to anyone without a Harvard law degree, as he always does. Then, depending on how someone wants the world presented to them, they decided that candidate had the better night.