Holland vs France Euro Group C [R]

[ike_11]

That was one of the best football matches I have ever watched- that little spinning touch by Van Nistelrooy to spring Robben was sheer brilliance! What a lethal Counterattack! Watch out sweden or spain!

[DutchCane]

Only a troll would denigrate VdS' performance in the tournament so far. Like I said this is the best group since 88 imvho, in terms of team spirit which again, in my opinion hasn't usually been on the mark since 88. With that being said football wise our 98 group was a beast but we had a guy who couldn't take his chances against Brasil(how many times did he miss? 8?7? 80?) alas it could've been different.

[Aveirenses]

oh i see you are potuguese. :rolleyes:
Has nothing to do with it.

You beat an Italian team that was missing their true-captain, and at that, the score should've been closer to 3-0. You beat a French team who's main attacker is a sub for Barcelona. And so on and so forth.

They're good wins over legitimate footballing powers, but I can't really just say that and not remind myself that Holland had a lot of things go their way in both games. This tournament has never been decided in the group-stage and last time I checked it still wasn't.

And that's for a reason. How much pressure did Holland really have? Compared to France and Italy, none. Let's see how they do in the knockouts before we start hailing a fake-champion.

[Amsteldam]

Let's see how they do in the knockouts before we start hailing a fake-champion.
I agree with that, we have a long way to go still

[Aveirenses]

Only a troll would denigrate VdS' performance in the tournament so far. Like I said this is the best group since 88 imvho, in terms of team spirit which again, in my opinion hasn't usually been on the mark since 88. With that being said football wise our 98 group was a beast but we had a guy who couldn't take his chances against Brasil(how many times did he miss? 8?7? 80?) alas it could've been different.
Are you ********ing kidding me?

He's had as many dumb double parrys as Petr Cech in this tournament.

Just because he's able to save 2 shots per half and hold onto it spectacularly, doesn't make up for the other 10 that he has to make a double attempt on. I'm sorry but just look at the one shot in the game yesterday where he hit the ball with the palm of his hands... 6 feet in front of him. He's begging for someone to score on him playing like that. Trust me, put Van Der Sar against Klose, Ronaldo, Torres, Villa, Ibrahimovic, and the man will be begging for mercy at that point. He's a true liability and any one who can't see that hasn't actually been looking at these games beyond the score-line (which in case you didn't know, just happens to be a little bit important).

Don't get me wrong. Attacking-wise, Holland are deadly, their counter-attack right now is the deadliest in this tournament, and Ruud van Nistelrooy is proving that he's a world-class striker. And they do have amazing squad-depth. Having said that, I don't think my remaining doubts about Holland are at al biased because I'm Portuguese. If anything I admire the way Holland play, I'm just waiting for them to face some of the favorites how'd been on-form as well. When Germany won against Poland everyone was raving about them and they got sent on their way back to earth this week. That's why I personally am still precarious about saying they dominated their opponents when on the pitch the game was closer. That's also why I'm precarious about saying Portugal can go all the way or Spain while we're at it, since they're another team that's been on-form. After the first knockout is when you see the teams that are here to win it.

[Dutch Treat]

Are you ********ing kidding me?

He's had as many dumb double parrys as Petr Cech in this tournament.

Just because he's able to save 2 shots per half and hold onto it spectacularly, doesn't make up for the other 10 that he has to make a double attempt on. I'm sorry but just look at the one shot in the game yesterday where he hit the ball with the palm of his hands... 6 feet in front of him. He's begging for someone to score on him playing like that. Trust me, put Van Der Sar against Klose, Ronaldo, Torres, Villa, Ibrahimovic, and the man will be begging for mercy at that point. He's a true liability and any one who can't see that hasn't actually been looking at these games beyond the score-line (which in case you didn't know, just happens to be a little bit important).

I've heard it all now. Granted, we still have a long way to go, and after the Italy game I was still skeptic that that game was a one-timer. But after yesterday I'm just thrilled.

Yes, we've had luck on our side, and yes, I'm subconsciously preparing for a drama-exit that Oranje is known for. Flattering score lines? Maybe, but we've still scored.

But, before the tournament we've been slagged down. No inspiration, no chemistry, we can't defend, we would end up at the bottom of our group with 0 points.
After beating Italy, it was not so much the Dutch being good, no the Italians were crap, old and well passed it.
And now after the game against France, again it was the opposing coach and team who made us look good. What must Oranje do to impress?

And now here's you saying VDS is a disaster waiting to happen. I'll tell you this much, without him we wouldn't have 6 points. It's as clear as that.

To all of the Dutch bashers out there, you'll probably ( hope not ) get your laughs later on in the tournament when, as I've said before, we'll go out in our own specific dramatic way.

But until then, I'll be :D my arse off at all of you, I'm on a high by my team and loving it. We play entertaining football. May it long continue.

[1shot1kill]

Let's just stop feeding the troll, he obviously has no clue about football.

[squidward123]

To be honest, I don't think they are playing that well in that sense, and I have seen better games and teams of Holland, which is always very good.

I'd say it's been two great games but similar to the one played by Spain against Russia, meaning high scores but kind of unfair, and based on fast and accurate counterattacks more than on a perfect dominance.

While the Dutch attack is excellent, their midfield and defense are at a lower level than usual. A big difference is that Holland is not playing their traditional 4-3-3 but a 4-2-3-1 with only two central midfielders and without open wingers. I don't think that De Jong and Engelaar or any of the defenders are at the level that traditionally Holland has had for many years. But it works and that's what counts.

So far I still believe that the 88 group was better, and the 1974 as well. Also the 1996 one was superb. But they didn't smash France and Italy in a row. I would say that, perhaps, Holland this time is being very practical, rather than the wonderful but prone to unfair defeats that has always been for playing too fair, open and a bit naïve the crucial games.

exactly

[Amsteldam]

To be honest, I don't think they are playing that well in that sense, and I have seen better games and teams of Holland, which is always very good.

I'd say it's been two great games but similar to the one played by Spain against Russia, meaning high scores but kind of unfair, and based on fast and accurate counterattacks more than on a perfect dominance
But thats because after the 1-0 against France we chose to sit back and
play the counter game.

[Soccerfever]

I got to say that seeing France getting bitchslapped like that is a long time dream come true!That was priceless!

Now we know what France is worth when Zidane is not around...:p

[graywolfe81]

Holy Schneikies.

That is sick.

Peaking too early?

Is kinda remiscent of Argentina after their demolition of Serbia, and Spain after rolling early back in '06. Both those sides looked headed to a long and deep run to the finals, while Italy and France at the time were struggling. Will be interesting to see if they can continue to roll (and they should) through Russia/or Sweden in the QF's setting up a potential match up w/fellow heart breaker Spain (if they can get past whomever takes 2nd in the group of death).

[Seymour_Gunner]

the dutch are now clear favorites for euro 2008. i love their style. after Romania, Holland will be the team i support. but i think Holland won't manage to win this tournament. they reached top form too early. i would love them to win but i believe they will be eliminated in the semis after an unlucky game.

and another thing if either Italy or France get through to the next round then they will reach the final. people will say i'm crazy but i saw countless times a pathetic France or Italy team in the group stages (2006 the most recent example) and then a totally different situation in the knock-out stages. if italy for example meets holland again in the semis they won't make the same mistake (and i also believe thy wil get their proverbial luck back) it's just my opinion...

No you are not crazy. They may or may not reach the final but France and Italy will pose bigger threat to Dutch than any other team. That is, why I think it would be good tactic fro Holland to play a reserve team with instructions not to worry about the result just play for fun (and probably lose to Romania) just to eliminate the
their main threats. I think semi final will in Hollands side will be rematch of teams from group C whether it is Italy, Romania or France.

[graywolfe81]

Congrats to the Dutch. Indeed, a final against Portugal may be one of the most beautiful games ever. Great goals, great team, smart coach, and a great show. Thank you to the Oranje.

Did you see their R16 game in '06? I don't want to have that '06 debacle redux. Still have no clue how they ended up doing that for 90 minutes. Could have been six or seven red's in that game.

[Black Label]

[QUOTE=Fan123;14886581]What I do not get is why people think that Spain somehow could beat Holland if they meet. Seriously? Yes, Dutch defense is not great, but neither is the Spanish defense. Against Russia, they looked great because Russia can't do anything. But Holland looked lethal against France AND Italy, how could anyone compare a win against Russia to TWO wins against World Cup finalists is beyond me.

QUOTE]

Dude, what's beyond me is how a Dutch fan can say it is not possible that Spain will beat Holland.

Holland played exceptional in the first two matches, and (finally) had some luck at the right moments. However this team is far from unbeatable. Even Russia would have a decent chance. Two weeks ago nobody in Holland expected sh*t from this team, and even now most people don't expect them to win it. That being said they're playing like never before, and I hope to god they can keep it up.

[Amsteldam]

Spain could easily beat Holland, but Holland could also easily beat Spain.
Spain doesnt have a good record against Holland, especially considering they
are a much larger country

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=esp/team2=ned/index.html

[Black Label]

Btw on the van der Sar thing, I think a lot of people are forgetting his value in setting up/coaching this defence. I feel he is a crucial factor in making Holland play like a team. Besides that, I don't care how he looks or if he dances 'the magical wooden shoe dance' before a save, as long as he makes the save. In that respect he has done an outstanding job so far.

[Black Label]

Spain could easily beat Holland, but Holland could also easily beat Spain.


Are you Cruijf in disguise ;)

[DutchCane]

Btw on the van der Sar thing, I think a lot of people are forgetting his value in setting up/coaching this defence. I feel he is a crucial factor in making Holland play like a team. Besides that, I don't care how he looks or if he dances 'the magical wooden shoe dance' before a save, as long as he makes the save. In that respect he has done an outstanding job so far.


Exactly. I don't get the slagging off, so what he makes parry saves? The bottom line is he made the save didn't he?

[Bernabeu]

Spain could easily beat Holland, but Holland could also easily beat Spain.

Lol...:) Although it's flattering to read this about Spain, don't forget that we are THE losers among all the big ones, and that we never go beyond 1/8 finals or 1/4 as much. We always qualify til we have a direct confrontation with one that is even or higher. Everybody knows that.

I don't know why people are fearing Spain in this particular year, but it's happening. Our team has been specially awful in the last many years. In Portugal 04 we didn't qualify directly and played with Norway for a spot. Later we didn't pass the group stage in agroup with Portugal, Greece and Russia. In Germany 06 we didn't qualify directly and played with Norway for a spot. Later we passed the group stage in the easiest group but lost easily to France in 1/8.

All these years everyone has dropped the interest for the National team to a point of having the poorest TV audiences ever and Aragonés has been asked to leave by every media and surveys.

So, thanks for the consideration, but for us it would be a miracle and a surprise to go beyond the next round with Italy, Romania or France. Not to mention if we had to meet this Holland, Portugal or Germany later.

[blueguitar322]

Lol...:) Although it's flattering to read this about Spain, don't forget that we are THE losers among all the big ones, and that we never go beyond 1/8 finals or 1/4 as much. We always qualify til we have a direct confrontation with one that is even or higher. Everybody knows that.

I don't know why people are fearing Spain in this particular year, but it's happening. Our team has been specially awful in the last many years. In Portugal 04 we didn't qualify directly and played with Norway for a spot. Later we didn't pass the group stage in agroup with Portugal, Greece and Russia. In Germany 06 we didn't qualify directly and played with Norway for a spot. Later we passed the group stage in the easiest group but lost easily to France in 1/8.

All these years everyone has dropped the interest for the National team to a point of having the poorest TV audiences ever and Aragonés has been asked to leave by every media and surveys.

So, thanks for the consideration, but for us it would be a miracle and a surprise to go beyond the next round with Italy, Romania or France. Not to mention if we had to meet this Holland, Portugal or Germany later.Spain might have history, but Spain also has class players. As class as any other side in the tournament. Yes, as a longtime Red Sox fan I understand what that pressure can do, but I also know that in soccer, a team with world-quality players can win any given day.

And a team with David Villa and Fernando Torres as strikers can offensively explode any given day.