Netherlands Vs. Italy Part II

[AFCA]

We made a lot of excellent tackles, but on the occasions where they were less excellent, we didn't get a lot of trouble for it.

I thought it was a pretty fair match actually.

[Karloski]

Great game.

To be honest, up until last nights game the whole tounament looked like it was shaping up to be the most mundane Euros in decades.

Credit to both teams. The Netherlands were far more precise in the final third, and Italy were not defending great, but I still think they both played at a good tempo (see France game as example of lacking tempo).

I think the game can go straight into the coaches manual for 'how to counter attack'. The dutch were awesome when breaking from their own half.

Hope there are more games like this to look forward to.

[Tony Dellbird]

According to some refs consultants for french TV, there is offside because when a player is out of the pitch, he's not part of the game.

This is according to the spirit of football, no matter what justifications you try to find in the rules.

By the way, Netherlands were really impressive and deserve this large victory. I'm not what you can call a pro-Italian and i just hope this tournament will be fair for all teams.

It's all as clear as mud if Panucci had fallen into the goal he wouldn't have been counted. Same as if RVN had stood inside the goal then popped out and tapped it in no matter when the ball was kicked he'd still be onside. I don't know what's so special about the area inside the goal. :rolleyes:

[RibbyBollywood]

Good Sportsmanship:

Spain and in fact, Brazil won the FIFA fairplay award for their play in the '06 World Cup, in regards to previous discussions on this forum.

http://www.feedsfarm.com/article/1bae76cdde83ae6439155812c1f2d29b1dc47f4e.html

[squidward123]

Throughout the game, Oranje played as a team. I had hoped that this Oranje would show manifest itself as they did last night. Pherhaps not as dominant and attacking as earlier, but much more sturdy, business-like and dangerous on the break. Which is what gave us the 3-0.


Exactly...

[squidward123]

I'm also a neutral and I have to disagree with some of what you wrote. Holland had some amazing passes and attacking sequences, particularly on the second two goals, but at other times in the first half as well. The second goal was textbook counterattacking soccer and it was beautiful. Of course other teams have been better in the past. No one has been better in this tournament at it. Germany did well, but they weren't playing against a team with supposed defensive skill and organization like Italy.
What you are correct about is that Italy did a better job in the second half of passing, possessing, and creating chances. They just came up against a hot goalie.

Watch the game properly again...aside from the goals Holland had at max two of these "amazing passing sequences" in the whole game.

Italy's defensive organisation was in the run of play way below their usual standard...

[squidward123]

:rolleyes:

Holland were continually pushing 6,7,8 men up into the final third - even AFTER their THIRD goal. How is this not attacking? Most teams would've left at least 10 men behind the ball at all times.

I didn't say they were defensive or even "not attacking". I just said they were not playing flowing, beautiful passing football at almost any stage of the match.


Their attack might not have been as direct as Germany (historically they prefer playing a possession game) but they certainly didn't decide at any point to sit back and defend a 1-0, 2-0, or even 3-0 lead; instead they continually pressed for more chances - even if that meant allowing Italy more chances to get back into the game.

You're getting my post confused...Holland were more direct than Germany when they attacked. Germany were playing more subtle attacking passes and were more elaborate in their buildups.

[squidward123]

Squid, where did you leave your glasses before you watched the replay of the game? :eek::p;)

Italy was poor in all parts until Alex del Piero came in ... whereas Holland played great counter attacking football from the start to the end!

Italy were poor defensively in midfield and defence, and in finishing. Their attacking movement, subtlety and inventiveness was at the very top in the context of what we've seen in this tournament so far.

Just watch the game twice...

[Heist]

Watch the game properly again...aside from the goals Holland had at max two of these "amazing passing sequences" in the whole game.

Italy's defensive organisation was in the run of play way below their usual standard...

I counted a few more... and the important thing is the ones that counted, more than the Italians. Perhaps the organization was bad because the passing was so good. Is it the chicken or the egg?

[squidward123]

I counted a few more... and the important thing is the ones that counted, more than the Italians. Perhaps the organization was bad because the passing was so good. Is it the chicken or the egg?

Maybe we have a different definition of "excellent attacking passing move" then? I mean I thought spain and russia both pulled off several today, but holland only 1 or 2 in the whole game.

I think italy's defensive organisation was bad rather than the passing being superb on the 2 goals. Mostly the third goal. Second was actually ok.

[Heist]

Maybe we have a different definition of "excellent attacking passing move" then? I mean I thought spain and russia both pulled off several today, but holland only 1 or 2 in the whole game.

I think italy's defensive organisation was bad rather than the passing being superb on the 2 goals. Mostly the third goal. Second was actually ok.
Each time you write about it... there are fewer and fewer. 4 down to "1 or 2". Maybe you are changing your definition as we go. It is true that Holland weren't as dominant as the scoreline suggest since they were bailed out by van der Sar many times.
Spain did have quite a few excellent attacking passing moves today, on that we can surely agree. They were very fun to watch!

[squidward123]

Each time you write about it... there are fewer and fewer. 4 down to "1 or 2". Maybe you are changing your definition as we go.

Well if I was dropping it as I went (which I don't think I was, as I can't remember saying "4"), that works against trying to match your higher estimations doesn't it.

I didn't change definitions...Holland had 2 max.


It is true that Holland weren't as dominant as the scoreline suggest since they were bailed out by van der Sar many times.

They just weren't dominant in an "excellent attacking passing football" sense at all. But in other ways they were.


Spain did have quite a few excellent attacking passing moves today, on that we can surely agree. They were very fun to watch!

Yes they did...several. Russia did too.

[Heist]

Well if I was dropping it as I went (which I don't think I was, as I can't remember saying "4"), that works against trying to match your higher estimations doesn't it.

"Watch the game properly again...aside from the goals Holland had at max two of these "amazing passing sequences" in the whole game."

I assume you aren't counting Ruud's goal which just was a great pass and no sequence: 2+2=4.
My higher estimations are my own and we seem to have a different definition which is fine.

[squidward123]

"Watch the game properly again...aside from the goals Holland had at max two of these "amazing passing sequences" in the whole game."

I assume you aren't counting Ruud's goal which just was a great pass and no sequence: 2+2=4.
My higher estimations are my own and we seem to have a different definition which is fine.

ahh, no I was not counting the goals at all which gave me just 2.

I don't put the goals into that category because they were really open-field, counterattack moves.

[AFCA]

Van der Sar saved two possible goals, and a few minorly threatening shots.

What's this 'many times'? Where does it come from?

[Heist]

ahh, no I was not counting the goals at all which gave me just 2.

I don't put the goals into that category because they were really open-field, counterattack moves.

When you said "aside from the goals", that should mean not including them. At least that's how I read English anyway. Also, now I see the difference... because it was a counter-attack it doesn't count as a "passing sequence"? Geez... you've got some specific rules here. How was I supposed to know that!? If you are counterattacking in open field you can't make excellent attacking passes?!
Under your rules I don't know if Holland had any that fit or if Spain or Russia did... Ugh, why all the verbal gymnastics.

[squidward123]

Van der Sar saved two possible goals, and a few minorly threatening shots.

What's this 'many times'? Where does it come from?

they don't have to be shots or saves to have been quality passing moves...


And I mean I have standards on the higher end of the scale, which is why holland only had 2 of these passing moves, and you dutch also should, given the heritage in this holland have

[AFCA]

I'm talking about saves.

Learn some English.

[1shot1kill]

Your memory must be failing you, van der Sar has had a fairly quiet night, he just had a few balls to stop and did so excellently. Holland was constantly on the attack and had many great chances, van Nistelrooy had 3 great chances besides his goal, van der Vaart and Sneijder had several, Affelay had 1, van Persie had 1, the only times Italy was really dangerous was during free kicks and corners and the 1 time Toni faced van der Sar 1 on 1 and decided to shoot the ball 15 feet over the goal.

[squidward123]

When you said "aside from the goals", that should mean not including them. At least that's how I read English anyway. Also, now I see the difference... because it was a counter-attack it doesn't count as a "passing sequence"? Geez... you've got some specific rules here. How was I supposed to know that!? If you are counterattacking in open field you can't make excellent attacking passes?!
Under your rules I don't know if Holland had any that fit or if Spain or Russia did... Ugh, why all the verbal gymnastics.

lol, sorry I was thinking of a different game for the goals. I've been up early these days because of the time difference here and it's catching up with me.

BUT, rest assured I was not affected by that in all my other comments about the game.

Ok basically, for me, a counterattack like the two holland pulled off don't count for that because they were in wide open spaces and the defence was retreating. Plus, in the second one they had to reset the move after a save.

An excellent passing move is one in tighter space where you manipulate the defence and have more delicate touches.