Netherlands Vs. Italy Part II

[ToBeAGooner]

I JUST WANT TO SEE A REPLAY

all of the replays I saw during the match, well i was looking at the defenders on the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6KQLOcyUrs

[forza_azzurri]

There are two possible outcomes from this opening day fiasco: either Italy is incapable of coping with the pressure and subsequently crashes and burns, or they survive this group and play the final.

Well they bounced back after the game against The USA at WC06 and they managed to claw their way back after 2 terrible opening qualifying games and eventually have to beat Scotland on hostile soil.

let's see what they are made of. They don't give that trophy with the world on it to just ANYBODY !!!:cool:

[Achillean]

So far the Real Madrid players are the best on the Euros. VERY happy for Wesley and RVN.

[morry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6KQLOcyUrs

Thank you- I still think it is rubbish and goes against the spirit of the rule

[ToBeAGooner]

Thank you- I still think it is rubbish and goes against the spirit of the rule


I dont see how you could take a goal away from Holland when it was two Italians losing awareness and running into each other that started the entire incident.

[grodada]

3-0 :eek:
I never thought it could have been that kind of choker:
great game by the dutch (but we all know they'll never reach the final anyway:D)
they deserved it :eek:

[DaveyGorgeous]

I dont see how you could take a goal away from Holland when it was two Italians losing awareness and running into each other that started the entire incident.

Losing awareness? Starting the incident? What are you talking about? I've seen so many matches where goalkeepers come out punching the ball, knocking anyone in their way including their own defenders.

I am not knocking the Dutch, they played great and deserved to win. But the first goal was undeserved. The rule is designed to avoid players deliberately going out of bounds to put a player offside. It is undisputed that this was not Panucci's intent - he did not go out of bouns to put RVN offside, he went out because he was momentarily injured. Accordingly, RVN was offside.

But regardless, the Dutch beat us fair and square. Good game guys.

[ToBeAGooner]

Losing awareness? Starting the incident? What are you talking about? I've seen so many matches where goalkeepers come out punching the ball, knocking anyone in their way including their own defenders.

I am not knocking the Dutch, they played great and deserved to win. But the first goal was undeserved. The rule is designed to avoid players deliberately going out of bounds to put a player offside. It is undisputed that this was not Panucci's intent - he did not go out of bouns to put RVN offside, he went out because he was momentarily injured. Accordingly, RVN was offside.

But regardless, the Dutch beat us fair and square. Good game guys.

And it bit the goalie in the ass this time. I just dont see the issue. Panucci wasnt hurt, he played the rest of the game. You dont know what his intent was, he could have thought that lying around and hoping for a whistle was a better alternative than getting up and defending.

[DaveyGorgeous]

And it bit the goalie in the ass this time. I just dont see the issue. Panucci wasnt hurt, he played the rest of the game. You dont know what his intent was, he could have thought that lying around and hoping for a whistle was a better alternative than getting up and defending.

First off, the goalie is supposed to do that everytime. What is he supposed to do? Not come out for the ball because he doesn't want to hurt his teammate? Buffon's eyes were on the ball being shot in, not who was in his way. That's how it is supposed to be all the time, every time.

Secondly, yes you dont know what Panucci's intent was. You rarely do when a player is on the ground. And even though he played the rest of the game doesnt mean he didnt have the wind knocked out of him and was grounded because of it.

[blanc]

Wow, what a great game. I too am stoked with Sneijder and vanGol :) Engelaar impressed me too. Skills for a big man!

Also, with the offside controversy: Italian Refereeing Chief: Van Nistelrooy Goal Legitimate (http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=729918)

And it was a great game! Italy played okay, were unlucky with afew of their chances (Grosso cutting in, Cassano to Toni), while El Oranje took theirs.

Stoked as a (relative) neutral.

[Jay510]

Italy likely would have lost anyway.....they got smoked all over the field today.

In any case, IMHO, the call is onside.

[FNU]

Enough, Panucci is a donkey. 3-0, 2-0, 1-0; it doesn't matter, a win is a win! Good game Holland. Good luck.

[grodada]

Italy likely would have lost anyway.....they got smoked all over the field today.

In any case, IMHO, the call is onside.

it's off for RVN, 200% sure of it but hey,' the ref says in, it's in, it wouldn't have changed the outcome anyway
f***ing dutch :eek: I knew they were fantastic but I didn't expect the maccaronis to be that dull; but hey if they could even play worse than this vs france ... :D

[squidward123]

subscribed

[Rui_GENIUS_Costa]

Italians b**ch a lot! Get over it! I hope they get knocked out of the tournament.

[sportscribe]

Italians b**ch a lot! Get over it! I hope they get knocked out of the tournament.

Me too.

Come on Romania and France!!

[A-Zilis]

have you ever seen a goal disallowed in that situation though?


Not sure if any examples were given (I just don't have time to read through the entire thread right now), but I actually have seen a goal disallowed in a similar situation. It was pretty clear at the time that it was the wrong call.

The game obviously wasn't even close to the level of a major tournament game like today, but it was a United States women's exhibition back in 2000 or 2001 (I think vs. Brazil). I can't remember the exact specifics of the play leading up to the defender being off the field, but it was a similar situation to the goal today, ie she left the field from the normal run of play, and a goal was scored seconds later by the US. The official called the goal off, and about 5 American players immediately pointed to the defender who was off the field. Minutes later, a non-existent foul was called in the penalty box to give the US a pk . . . it seemed pretty obvious it was a makeup call.

A defender who has fallen off the field (or walked off, slid off, pushed off) just HAS to be considered part of the play, if only from a common sense point of view. If the action that resulted in him being off the field had taken place a few yards further out, the player would be on the endline and obviously still part of the play. Why would leaving the field magically remove him from observation?

If a player's entire body is out of bounds and he manages to touch the ball and keep it in play, the game continues. The one who played the ball was off the field, but still obviously considered to be part of the play. You could argue that because the defender was lying down off the field, he had no influence on the game, so the offside should have been called. The problem with this line of reasoning is that the influence a player has is only ever considered for the attacking team, NEVER for the defending team.

I'm arguing this call mainly from a common sense point of view because the exact laws of the game have already been cited numerous times.

Good non-call, good goal, good win.

[Amsteldam]

I just downloaded the game, and I shall enjoy this sweet victory once over again :D

[squidward123]

Ok, so I'm neutral and I just watched the game for the 2nd time.

Holland were very impressive but this is what I think of the game :

Holland did not play any "beautiful attacking football". Germany and Portugal AND Italy have been better in that regard. I would put Italy level with Germany for that.

Italy created more chances and dangerous situations - that is, not quite proper "chances" but a good cross or through-ball away from a 1v1 with the goalie - in this match, of several types. You just got the sense that it was just one of those nights where nobody was going to finish for Italy.

Italy's passing was more proactive going forward and more subtle and inventive around the box.

Holland's passing was much more safe - they kept possession for long stretches at a time on a few occasions without going 10 metres the other side of halfway - and attacking was more direct.

Those points applied even before Holland scored the first goal.

Italy's defensive midfield was quite open and backline very disorganised for the goals.

Holland were more organised in defensive midfield and at the back.

I said they were "very impressive" because they did very well what they needed to do after scoring twice and then scored another one and won 3-0 against a very good team.

If Italy play like this in attack and organise the backline better they should go through from this group.

[Belgian guy]

MOTM was between Sneijder and Gio. Clearly.

I'd like to mention Engelaar too at this point, it's the first time i've seen him play and he is a beast!

But he's not in one of the big three leagues, so he can't possibly be any good, right? :D

Good thing Johan isn't around, Dellci. :)