Netherlands Vs. Italy Part II

[DutchCane]

Its not how you start, its how you finish. Great win for the Oranje but as they say it was "closer than the experts think". Let's see what we do from here on in. I would still like more solidity in Defense, we're better with Boula in there imvho.

[Pit-182]

Ok, let's analize the situation from the italian point of view (which is mine point of view lol).
Three goal from the dutch:
-we could talk for years about the first, but that would be the most useless thing on earth... even tough I think that this shouldn't be a goal
-the second was basically a distraction
- the third happened because we neede to get some risk to try to equaliza or at least to score.

Without cannavaro we have got problems in the back (the second goal show this) but it's anyway something that we can resolve with a lot of training before the friday's game against Romania. The midfield was just average (except for Gattuso that played an horrible match), the attack wasn't that bad (we had some occasions).

God probably decided that this wasn't our game. All we need to do now is to NOT BLAME DONADONI and let him work with his still-awesome team.
I already know that tomorrow newspapers will write 1000000 accusations against our coach... I hope Donadoni will ignore those fu**ers and will get concentrate

I'm still very positive for the azzurri. And, because of the 0-0 between Romania and France, you can be the second of the group with just 6 points (the first place will go probably to holland).

I think friday we will rock really hard. Sorry romanians, respect for you... but there will be no mercy :cool:

[The Natural]

I can't stop laughing at this pic...
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/EURO/71/09/20/710920_w2.jpg

Looks like Tigger from Winnie the Pooh.

[Amsteldam]

I'm not getting too excited about this game, yes we were much better, yes it shouldve been 5 or 6-0, but we may still have to face the Italians in the Semi's (should they make it that far).

And then anything can happen!


Until then:

ORANJE BOVEN............ORANJE BOVEN!!!!!!!!!!

ORANJE BOVEN............ORANJE BOVEN!!!!!!!!!!

OLE.........OLE...........OLE.......!!!!!!!!!


:D :D :D

[Tetsuo]

Ok, let's analize the situation from the italian point of view (which is mine point of view lol).
Three goal from the dutch:
-we could talk for years about the first, but that would be the most useless thing on earth... even tough I think that this shouldn't be a goal
-the second was basically a distraction
- the third happened because we neede to get some risk to try to equaliza or at least to score.

Without cannavaro we have got problems in the back (the second goal show this) but it's anyway something that we can resolve with a lot of training before the friday's game against Romania. The midfield was just average (except for Gattuso that played an horrible match), the attack wasn't that bad (we had some occasions).

God probably decided that this wasn't our game. All we need to do now is to NOT BLAME DONADONI and let him work with his still-awesome team.
I already know that tomorrow newspapers will write 1000000 accusations against our coach... I hope Donadoni will ignore those fu**ers and will get concentrate

I'm still very positive for the azzurri. And, because of the 0-0 between Romania and France, you can be the second of the group with just 6 points (the first place will go probably to holland).

I think friday we will rock really hard. Sorry romanians, respect for you... but there will be no mercy :cool:

i'm sorry to say it, but italians are delusional if they think they can pass the romanian defense so easily. we received no goals from Holland in qualifications, and no goals from France now. if the italians will be very offensive friday it will be perfect for us and i'm sure Romania will score goals on the counter-attack.

i may be wrong but i think Italy will go home after friday's game...

[Sgunner]

Simply clinical. Lets go Dutch!!!!!

[Amsteldam]

Simply clinical. Lets go Dutch!!!!!
Simply PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AFCA]

http://sport.ard.de/euro2008/news200806/09/img/j_bronck_pan_dpa_512.jpg

Says it all ;)



Great game, surely not expected this result. I'm a happi boi :D

[inswinger]

Anyone interested in the interpretation of the first goal should consult the FIFA Laws of the Game (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws%5fof%5fthe%5fgame%5f0708%5f10565.pdf) (PDF) and look at "Law 11: Offside":

If a defending player steps behind his own goal line in order to place
an opponent in an offside position, the referee shall allow play to
continue and caution the defender for deliberately leaving the field
of play without the referee’s permission when the ball is next out of
play.

The wording throughout this section is clearly stated to avoid unsportsmanlike behavior that would take advantage of the offside rule, for both defenders and attackers.

In the case today, Panucci clearly did not "step behind his own goal line" or "deliberately leave the field of play" to put RVN in an offside position. Perhaps he deliberately stayed on the ground after Buffon decked him, but there is no evidence he had any awareness of doing so with the explicit intent of playing any Dutch player offside.

I think it was a blown call, later justified with some spin on the "rules"--but it's a rather harsh interpretation, IMO. 99/100 linesmen raise the flag for that on the spot.

It certainly influenced the rest of the game as you can see goals 2 and 3 resulted directly from counter-attacks off of goalmouth clearances.

All props to Gio van Bronckhorst, though.

[Pit-182]

i'm sorry to say it, but italians are delusional if they think they can pass the romanian defense so easily. we received no goals from Holland in qualifications, and no goals from France now. if the italians will be very offensive friday it will be perfect for us and i'm sure Romania will score goals on the counter-attack.

i may be wrong but i think Italy will go home after friday's game...
Let's just wait, but remember that:
- If we talk about attack, italians are probably the best, even tough we don't have a player like Van Nistelrooy
-About the back, i think donadoni will work really hard and will resolve the problems that we had against the dutch... I hope that friday he will put Gamberini or someone else from the start and not Barzagli (:mad:)
- Today romania against France played a very great catenaccio, and it worked, but that doesn't mean a defensive game can always work... even because if you wanna (wanna... american slang lol) go to the quarter of finals you can't equalize all the game and do just 3 points, you need to win at least one game (or the one with us, or the one with holland), and to win a game you need to take some risk for the back.

[Republic of Mancunia]

Continuing on... :)

As I said before, if someone can provide an example of another goal in world football where a defender, lying motionless on the ground 2.5 metres over the dead ball line, is deemed to be playing someone onside I'd like to see it.

Genuine request because I've been playing and watching the game for over 40 years and I've never seen that.

I've seen it go the other way recently when Nicklas Bendtner blocked Fabregas' shot at the wrong end in the Champions League the other month (Arsenal v Liverpool). He was behind the goalie but there was one player behind him on the pitch and another off the pitch who had slid in, trying to block a cross during the build up.

[TheGrimSweeper]

Italy dominated the second half but it was too late.

Materazzi and Pannuci should not be starting.

As well why Donadoni kept two defensive midfielders on the pitch when we were down 2-0 is beyond me.

Pirlo imo was Italys best player. He had a great game, same can't be said about the two that lined up beside him.

As an Italy fan lets hope Netherlands beat everyone and top the group. France/Romania did very little to impress today as well, so its possible to pull of 2nd still.

[BocaFan]

I'm still very positive for the azzurri. And, because of the 0-0 between Romania and France, you can be the second of the group with just 6 points


You mean 4 points, right? Six points is almost always good enough for second place.

Italy dominated the second half

Errr, no.

[Henry Porter]

Anyone interested in the interpretation of the first goal should consult the FIFA Laws of the Game (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws%5fof%5fthe%5fgame%5f0708%5f10565.pdf) (PDF) and look at "Law 11: Offside":



The wording throughout this section is clearly stated to avoid unsportsmanlike behavior that would take advantage of the offside rule, for both defenders and attackers.

In the case today, Panucci clearly did not "step behind his own goal line" or "deliberately leave the field of play" to put RVN in an offside position. Perhaps he deliberately stayed on the ground after Buffon decked him, but there is no evidence he had any awareness of doing so with the explicit intent of playing any Dutch player offside.

I think it was a blown call, later justified with some spin on the "rules"--but it's a rather harsh interpretation, IMO. 99/100 linesmen raise the flag for that on the spot.

It certainly influenced the rest of the game as you can see goals 2 and 3 resulted directly from counter-attacks off of goalmouth clearances.

All props to Gio van Bronckhorst, though.

Buffon pushed him out and he pretended to be hurt. I'm sure this behavior won him lots of free kicks over his career, this one just bit him in the butt.

[ChicagoAzzuri]

THANK YOU HOLLAND!!! You showed the world how to play without resorting to antifootball. you never stopped attacking, even at 0-3. Thank you Holland. I know defensive football wins titles but the way you played today wins love.

Italy = antifootball = fear and respect but never love.

Holland = Total football = love from the football community.

Zzzzz, Italy brought everyone forward to score, it was more sh,tty defense than a country's commitment to please or displease fans

http://sport.ard.de/euro2008/news200806/09/img/j_bronck_pan_dpa_512.jpg

Says it all ;)



Great game, surely not expected this result. I'm a happi boi :D

Maybe you should watch the game, Dutch dove about 15 times in this game. Just think it's funny how Italy always gets the bad rap for that kind of stuff but everyone just whistles the other way when it's any other team in Europe.


Great game by Neth, took advantage and deserved the win

[Pit-182]

You mean 4 points, right? Six points is almost always good enough for second place.


Yes... I said six points but now that I think about it we can go even with 4 points... even tough I think we will defeat both France & Romania

[benztown]

even because if you wanna go to the quarter of finals you can't equalize all the game and do just 3 points



Let's say Romania draws all its games and gets 3 points. Let's further assume Holland wins the remaining game against France and Italy and France draw their game:
Holland 7 Points
Romania 3 Points
France 2 Points
Italy 2 Points

It's not even that unlikely after today.

[Fan123]

Yes... I said six points but now that I think about it we can go even with 4 points... even tough I think we will defeat both France & Romania

That's some statement after this display. I am pretty sure the same thing was said about Holland. I really think you are underestimating the French. They were not on their game today, but they are still France, they're not some walkover you apparently make them out to be. And neither is Romania (as the match today showed,) yet people still somehow think they can just get on the pitch and beat Romania.

[ChicagoAzzuri]

Buffon pushed him out and he pretended to be hurt. I'm sure this behavior won him lots of free kicks over his career, this one just bit him in the butt.

He collided into someone and the goal came a split second later, (wtf is he thinking not jumping up instantly?!?! :rolleyes: )man, it sure seems easy for the lazy asses to scream 'dive' and 'fake' from their couch, even more disgraceful than the actual activity imo

My favorite is when they're wrong (ala Tommy Smyth on Frie in opening game), and can't feel the hit, the contact, or be able to judge why a player running amongst others trying to accomplish the opposite could lose balance and fall. :rolleyes:

[Heist]

Anyone interested in the interpretation of the first goal should consult the FIFA Laws of the Game (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws%5fof%5fthe%5fgame%5f0708%5f10565.pdf) (PDF) and look at "Law 11: Offside":

The wording throughout this section is clearly stated to avoid unsportsmanlike behavior that would take advantage of the offside rule, for both defenders and attackers.

In the case today, Panucci clearly did not "step behind his own goal line" or "deliberately leave the field of play" to put RVN in an offside position. Perhaps he deliberately stayed on the ground after Buffon decked him, but there is no evidence he had any awareness of doing so with the explicit intent of playing any Dutch player offside.

I think it was a blown call, later justified with some spin on the "rules"--but it's a rather harsh interpretation, IMO. 99/100 linesmen raise the flag for that on the spot.

Here's the rest of the rule that isn't about yellow cards.
11.11:

"A defender who leaves the field during the course of play and does not immediately return must still be considered in determining where the second to last defender is for the purpose of judging which attackers are in an offside position. Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his or her off-field position. A defender who leaves the field with the referee's permission (and who thus requires the referee's permission to return) is not included in determining offside position."

Assuming Panucci was well enough to get up and continue playing, he could have thought it better to hope for an offside call rather than try to get up and influence the play. It would have taken too long to get back up and on the field. Or more likely as you said, he just wasn't ready/able to get up. Either way, RVN is onside. Ruud can't be expected to look up and know whether the defender who he saw collide with the keeper is on or off the field. It would have been horribly unfair to call that play offside. It would have been a mistake you could easily see a linesman make if the linesman didn't see Panucci on the ground behind the goal, but it would have been a mistake even if most linesman would have called it that way.
It sucks for the Italians, because the guys ON the field did a good job pulling their offside trap, but in the end luckily this didn't decide the game anyway.