Donovan/Adu/formation questions

[cc-atl]

Freddy Adu continues to show that he needs to have a regular spot in the starting 11. Landon Donovan continues to be our most dangerous field player. Bob Bradley has shown no inclination at this point to have either Donovan or Adu team up with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination. All of this leads to a few questions and I am interested in your thoughts:

1. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination? Would that lineup be strong enough defensively?

2. Regardless of what you think "should" happen, do you think Bradley will ever start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination?

3. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination only against weaker competition? Should Bradley use a different formation in WC qualifying than he will use against top flight competition?

4. If Bradley refuses to start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination and continues to start a combination of Bradely, Edu, Clark, etc in the midfield how would you get Landon and Adu on the field together?

[Allamerican1974]

From a starting position--Donovan is our top scorer and barring another striker becoming as lethal as him (ie Altidore) then he should stay upfront. Adu should play off of him and run the show. The midfield should be Beasley, center mid passer, center mid holder (whoever they are at the moment) with Dempsey on the right.

During the match Donovan, Adu, Dempsey and Beasley can constantly switch positions...like ManU do with their guys. This would causes defenses a lot of problems I think

[Maximum Optimal]

Freddy Adu continues to show that he needs to have a regular spot in the starting 11. Landon Donovan continues to be our most dangerous field player. Bob Bradley has shown no inclination at this point to have either Donovan or Adu team up with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination. All of this leads to a few questions and I am interested in your thoughts:

1. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination? Would that lineup be strong enough defensively?

2. Regardless of what you think "should" happen, do you think Bradley will ever start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination?

3. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination only against weaker competition? Should Bradley use a different formation in WC qualifying than he will use against top flight competition?

4. If Bradley refuses to start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination and continues to start a combination of Bradely, Edu, Clark, etc in the midfield how would you get Landon and Adu on the field together?

Thanks for raising these questions. IMO, Bradley has to find a way to get both Donovan and Adu on the field at the same time. First a couple general thoughts then I'll give my take on your four questions. One thought is that because of their size, I would generally not play both Adu and Donovan at forward together. How they are used should be a function of the following considerations: Donovan is much better defensively, Donovan has much better speed, Donovan covers more ground, offensively Donovan still has a edge but the gap is closing fast and there is a good chance Adu is the more dangerous offensive player by summer 2010. With these considerations in mind, my answers to your questions would be:

1) Yes. Donovan's defensive game has improved a great deal and he covers more ground than anyone else on the team, with the possible exception of DMB. On the other hand, Adu's defensive game would create some weaknesses if we tried him in this role.

2) I think Bob will try it, maybe as soon as Barbados. He might have tried it in one of the last three friendlies if Donovan hadn't had to miss the first two.

3) I think the answer is yes to both parts of this question. Against a more heavyweight team like Argentina it might make sense to play more defensively oriented players in central mid. I do think it is worth trying to ride the Edu/Donovan central mid combination as far as we can and only adjust away from it if it proves deficient in some way.

4) This may be the most interesting question. I like at least one forward to have the speed needed to stretch a defense so my answer depends on who else is on the field. If Altidore/Ching/Dempsey is the other forward, I would go with Donovan paired with them at forward and Adu at attacking mid. If EJ is the other forward, I would go with Adu at forward and Donovan at mid. I was interested to note that Bob did just this when Adu subbed in for Dempsey. Adu went to second forward, and Donovan slid over to Dempsey's position.

[Martin Fischer]

Freddy Adu continues to show that he needs to have a regular spot in the starting 11. Landon Donovan continues to be our most dangerous field player. Bob Bradley has shown no inclination at this point to have either Donovan or Adu team up with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination. All of this leads to a few questions and I am interested in your thoughts:

Very important questions.

1. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination? Would that lineup be strong enough defensively?

In the long run, probably not against the likes of the top teams. Donovan played there before and he promptly went on a long scoring drought, though the team did OK. Adu hasn't played there since the U-17s, probably because he doesn't play any defense (and I don't really want him to).

2. Regardless of what you think "should" happen, do you think Bradley will ever start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination?

Not in a match against tough opposition.

3. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination only against weaker competition? Should Bradley use a different formation in WC qualifying than he will use against top flight competition?

That's a hard question.

4. If Bradley refuses to start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination and continues to start a combination of Bradely, Edu, Clark, etc in the midfield how would you get Landon and Adu on the field together?

Just like last night -- Donovan at right mid and Adu at withdrawn forward, with a lot of fluidity. There is no formational problem, the only question is whether Bradley is willing to go with Adu over Dempsey or Beasley -- me I would go with Lewis at left mid, Donovan at right mid and Adu at withdrawn forward right now.

[dred]

When looking at the preferences of our top attacking players, I have to say that Donovan, Adu, Dempsey, and Beasley all love to run at defenders with the ball at their feet rather than sprint to the corner flag to get off a cross.

Furthermore, our best wide attacker, Lewis is getting up in years and may not be starting 11 material in 2010. Yet we have wing backs who can fill the void of wing play.

Furthermore we have a player in Altidore who we can realistically HOPE will have both a dangerous target game and competitive albeit not olympian pace in 2010. And a player in Johnson who is a decent fall-back for this role.

Plus we have a bevy of competitive d-mids from which at least 2 are bound to pretty pretty hot come 2010.

What I'm driving at is I'd like to see us experiment with...

---------Altidore

DMB/Dempsey Donovan Adu

--------DMid DMid

------Pearce CB CB 'Dolo

In a 4-5-1 alignment that lets the 3 attacking mids roam to space to recieve the ball and go at defenders from there. Lots of position interchange as well.

[galaxyfan03]

1. I'd actually start Adu with Bradley/Edu as the 2-man central midfield & think it would be fine, defensively...depending on the opposition!! Landon would be better, up front!!

2. Perhaps, if he gives it a chance & the results are favorable??!

3. I do believe that Landon or Adu with Bradley/Edu/Clark would be very effective against weaker competition & I'd LOVE to see us play a 4-4-2 diamond midfield, with ONE def mid, or a 4-1-3-2 in WCQ, with one def mid & FIVE attacking players!!!

4. I would put Adu at attacking mid & push Landon, up top, with EJ/Ching/Cooper & that would should give up plenty of scoring opportunities!!

[smokarz]

...........how would you get Landon and Adu on the field together?

By putting baby Bradley's ass on the bench, where he belongs.

[dredgfan]

LD Josy
RUN DMB---ADU---Dempsey (Bradley, Sasha sub for 2/3)
EDU(Bradley, Mastro, clark)
(Solid back 4)

or

JOSY
ADU LD DEMPSEY (Mastro, DMB, EJ, SASHA plenty of sub depth in mid and attack)
EDU BRADLEY
(pearce and Frankie on the wings would be lethal)

[cc-atl]

1. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination? Would that lineup be strong enough defensively?

I would like to see us try Donovan as part of a two man central mid-field. I think we should at least give it a shot.



2. Regardless of what you think "should" happen, do you think Bradley will ever start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination?

I doubt it. He is too conservative.


3. Should Bradley start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination only against weaker competition? Should Bradley use a different formation in WC qualifying than he will use against top flight competition?

My preference would be for us to pick a formation and stick with it. I want Landon and Adu to get used to playing with each other and used to their roles. I felt like the team suffered in WC 2006 because Landon had played CAM when Reyna was out and then moved to Forward right before the WC and the team was at a bit of a loss on how to get him the ball.


4. If Bradley refuses to start Landon or Adu with Bradley, Edu, Clark, etc as part of a two man central midfield combination and continues to start a combination of Bradely, Edu, Clark, etc in the midfield how would you get Landon and Adu on the field together?

At this point I would stick Dempsey at forward:

RB-------CB-------CB-------LB
---------CM-------CM---------
Donovan---------------Beasley
---------------Adu------------
-------------Dempsey---------

If Altidore can win the foward spot I would move Dempsey to the bench.

[mtizzle]

I bring a Christmas Tree bearing gifts.
I think that DMB is good as a supersub like he is with Rangers. Dempsey as well (his form is just poor right now. He hasn't scored a goal since December, right?) Klejstan impresses me, he's fearless.

----------Altidore----------
-----Adu----------Donovan----
-----Klejstan---Bradley---Edu------
Pearce--Generic U.S. CB----Onyewu---Cherundolo

[FirstStar]

Start with two assertions, both of which I think are generally accepted as true on these boards:

1. Both Landon and Freddy must start.

2. Freddy's defense is a liability.

Add in what we all know to be true:

3. Bob is going to play with two Defensive Mids in the middle.

Add those three together, and it's fairly easy to predict the result:

Freddy as second striker/high up attacking mid (the difference is all semantics) paired with a bigger body like EJ/Ching/Jozy. Landon pushed out wide right with DMB out wide left.

Freddy is playing Clint off the field unless Clint wants to go back to trying to be a target forward (bad idea, Joay will play him off the field there) or pulling back to compete for one of the central mid spots with Bradley/Edu/Clark/Mastro.

Wide right is not Landon's best position, but it's the only one that fits the facts. He can cover the ground, has the speed, plays pretty good defense out there and can find the open space to run into. He might be a better second striker than R Mid, but he's not as good a second striker as Freddy projects to be right now.

[matador11]

Here's what my lineup would be:

-------------Altidore------------
---------Adu------Donovan------
Beasley-------Edu*--------Dempsey
Pearce----------------------Dolo
-------Parkhurst*---Demerit*----
--------------Howard-------------

The positions with * I am open to debate.

The rest, however, should be fixed unless something dramatic happens. Bottom line is we need our best players on the field attacking. And, the US does not have anything better than Donovan, Beasley, Adu, Altidore and Dempsey, right now. So, Bradley has to find a way to get them all on the field.

[flash1316]

The formation we should play to get Adu and Donovan on the field at the same time, which I don't personally see as a problem at all, is the 4-2-3-1. Same formation we played against Spain with Donovan in Lewis' spot at LAM. Make Altidore or whoever the Center forward or 1 up top and put Adu as the CAM in the 3 line with Donovan to his left at LAM and find the next best option at RAM to start.

-----------CF
Donovan--Adu--RAM

That problem should've been solved six months ago. Both players are completely compatible. We need to focus on creating depth at center forward out of our pool and creating depth at Right Attacking Midfielder. At center forward we've got Altidore, EJ, Ching, Cooper, Buddle, and Findley as immediate options. And Dempsey, Rogers, Holden, Smith, White, and Klejstan as immediate options at RAM. Find the best fit and lets move on to perfecting the central midfield and defense, both of which need a lot of work.

[flash1316]

Here's what my lineup would be:

-------------Altidore------------
---------Adu------Donovan------
Beasley-------Edu*--------Dempsey
Pearce----------------------Dolo
-------Parkhurst*---Demerit*----
--------------Howard-------------

The positions with * I am open to debate.

The rest, however, should be fixed unless something dramatic happens. Bottom line is we need our best players on the field attacking. And, the US does not have anything better than Donovan, Beasley, Adu, Altidore and Dempsey, right now. So, Bradley has to find a way to get them all on the field.
I like the idea, but you'd need a true destroyer in the Makelele role to break up attacks and hold down the midfield offensively for all those attacking players. I don't know that Edu's that player, but I'm open to the debate. Mastro may do better in that role. Having all those players must be done simultaneously with a fundamental change in philosophy by the US coaching staff, making posession and attacking the primary objectives of the team. Basically a change to scoring goals instead of preventing them.

[ACCCsoccer]

IMHO

Howard


Cherundolo------Onyewu-----Califf--------Pearce

Bradley

Dempsey-------Donovan--------Adu--------Beasley


Altidore

[StillKickin]

4) This may be the most interesting question. I like at least one forward to have the speed needed to stretch a defense so my answer depends on who else is on the field. If Altidore/Ching/Dempsey is the other forward, I would go with Donovan paired with them at forward and Adu at attacking mid. If EJ is the other forward, I would go with Adu at forward and Donovan at mid. I was interested to note that Bob did just this when Adu subbed in for Dempsey. Adu went to second forward, and Donovan slid over to Dempsey's position.

Just like last night -- Donovan at right mid and Adu at withdrawn forward, with a lot of fluidity. There is no formational problem, the only question is whether Bradley is willing to go with Adu over Dempsey or Beasley -- me I would go with Lewis at left mid, Donovan at right mid and Adu at withdrawn forward right now
What happened to the formation when Sacha went in?

I though LD then went back to being a forward with Freddy and Sacha was wide right. Or did we not play with two forwards at that point? [Because Eddie was gone by then, right?] Sacha wasn't the forward, was he?

[USAin2006]

Can someone who follows Bradley @ Heerenveen tell me what role he plays there? I know most Dutch teams favor a 4-3-3, is Bradley playing centrally???
18 goals at H'veen can't be a fluke, but he hasn't shown a lot of vision in the final third for us. Just wondering if the problem is inherent between the 4-2-2 and a 4-3-3.

[Maximum Optimal]

What happened to the formation when Sacha went in?

I though LD then went back to being a forward with Freddy and Sacha was wide right. Or did we not play with two forwards at that point? [Because Eddie was gone by then, right?] Sacha wasn't the forward, was he?

By the time Sacha came in we were down to 10 players. He came in for EJ. But positionally he played on the right and Donovan moved up top. It looked something like this.

-------------Donovan------------
--------------Adu---------------
----DMB------Edu--------Sacha--

[flux82]

Maybe going off track, but I was watching Holland-Italy today, and Donovan reminds me of a less advanced Wesley Sneijder. They seem to have a similar skill set, but obviously have taken much different career paths.

[Maximum Optimal]

18 goals at H'veen can't be a fluke, but he hasn't shown a lot of vision in the final third for us.

Earnie Stewart scored 17 goals his first season with Willem II, good for 3rd in the Eredivisie. During his next five seasons with them he averaged six goals a season. These kinds of fluctuations happen. As do wide differences in performance at the club and international levels.