Croatia v. Germany [R]

[ForeverRed]

That's pretty much right on FR. He also crosses better than most other German wings. But that's all he can do.

Even though, he did do "OK" at right back yesterday.

I'll tell you who he reminds me of. Delron Buckley.

And if Buckley stays with us (Dortmund), you may see him switched to left back.

Just as I think Odonkor's future in football is as a right back.

Good thing Buckley isn't German then or else we might be seeing him in 2010, lol.

[footyfan1]

Good thing Buckley isn't German then or else we might be seeing him in 2010, lol.

LMAO!! :D :D

[squidward123]

Exactly, the modern game makes it very difficult to play fluid attacking football nowadays and succeed at the highest level. Teams play with caution now than ever and the game has become more compact. I like Klinsmann's and Loew's spirit in trying to play the beautiful game so freely but you have to keep in mind the tactical circumstances of today's game.

bla bla...with this attitude people are going to fall out of love with football and the WC will be dead in 30 years ;)

I'm half serious though...

I'd rather do well and lose trying to play good football than win by being cautious. That is why the german sides of the 60s and 70s were so popular but the 80s notorious and made even Germans fall out of love (not saying that they were 100% fair on the team but...)

[The Jitty Slitter]

Dude, I know what you mean. Tactics and coach and such things are poor excuses. The fact is that germany played reasonably well but were lethargic for one reason or other and were not sharp enough when it mattered in buildup and finishing. Croatia were. Simple as that. I won't say Croatia "outplayed" Germany as they won the game through denial of space than through keeping possession and outpassing, but Croatia certainly were more focused and did what they had to do to win.

In short, several Croatian players would get into the Germany team. ;)

pffttt

This is an excellent croatian side. Yesterday was no accident. These tactics were exactly those that defeated england home and away.

The point is germany never had midfield parity until Schweiny came on - that was the direct result of loew's strategic failures

[balla]

Terrible simply terrible performance from Germany. :mad: Hopefully that was the bad game of the tournament out of the way which in all honesty it was the best time for it to happen.

[squidward123]

Why risk it though? Especially against Germany? If Germany did this leading Portugal in the 90+ minute I would certainly approve.

It's not that much of a "risk" to not play those tactics because Croatia are at a level close to Germany. That's basically the whole premise of my initial match report thingy.

Let's say Holland were playing Germany and leading 2-1 they did that...I'd be disappointed.

If Germany did that v/s Portugal I'd be disappointed for sure. I'd apologise to the other fans for my team playing that way, especially, as we're a team on the same level.

[footyfan1]

pffttt

This is an excellent croatian side. Yesterday was no accident. These tactics were exactly those that defeated england home and away.

The point is germany never had midfield parity until Schweiny came on - that was the direct result of loew's strategic failures


Got to fully agree with this post. I said during the match that Bilic was kicking Loew's ass tactically.

That cost the team too, but no one wants to criticize Loew.

[squidward123]

pffttt

This is an excellent croatian side. Yesterday was no accident. These tactics were exactly those that defeated england home and away.

The point is germany never had midfield parity until Schweiny came on - that was the direct result of loew's strategic failures

disagree...the fact (and I've watched the game twice and can confirm) is that germany were shithouse with their final and penultimate passes after several good albeit not overly eye-catching passing moves. As well as their finishing. Germany had a lot more possession than croatia as a result and certainly had midfield parity. What they lacked was sharpness in the third of the field that croatia were defending.


EDIT : footy, have you watched the game a second time?

[footyfan1]

It's not that much of a "risk" to not play those tactics because Croatia are at a level close to Germany. That's basically the whole premise of my initial match report thingy.

Me thinks you horribly overestimate Germany's "level."

The Croats can beat anyone in Europe on any given day.

As they just showed yesterday.

But now you will say you didn't mean it that way. :rolleyes:




If Germany did that v/s Portugal I'd be disappointed for sure. I'd apologise to the other fans for my team playing that way, especially, as we're a team on the same level.

Funny. I'd never apologize for smart tactics.

[squidward123]

Me thinks you horribly overestimate Germany's "level."

The Croats can beat anyone in Europe on any given day.

You along with us were predicting a germany win...which points to germany in your opinion being somewhat better i thought?

level = an estimation formed from a large number of games.


Funny. I'd never apologize for smart tactics.

It's just not football to me...

Maybe in the last minute of injury time yes, but never ever 5 mins from injury time

[squidward123]

squidward123, what do You expect from a match at world top level? That one team crushes the other? Matches like Netherlands-Italy are very seldom, usually such matches are so close that you know the winner only after the final whistle.
Croatia is a good team but they are no supermen who can totally outplay and destroy such teams like Germany or Brazil or whatever you ask for. In todays football it is even difficult to outplay Moldova and one is happy with a simple victory and 3 points.

I think the difference between Croatia and Germany today was - the coach!
Croatia always had high individual class but this time the team was also very disciplined and had a clear game plan. At every moment they knew what to do. While Germans looked sometimes clueless and unorganized. Odonkor played right back more than wing, he was useless in the offense, which is supposed to be his main duty. Bad sub by Löw. Also Klose and especially Gomez were nowhere. Jansen a weakness in the defense, Fritz invisible. But most important, the Croatians tactics and strategy was straight, while the Germans was unclear. It is mainly thanks to Bilic, the Croatian coach, who made the difference between not so much different teams in respect to quality.

Though, this defeat is not that harmful for the Germans because they will qualify for the quarters anyways and that's deserved (can't imagine Austria scoring to Germany with such incapable strikers, while Austria being a positive surprise for me so far, concerning quality, btw, Poland is also more than OK).

Germany is a very good team, besides all weaknesses (who doesn't have some?), they belong to world's top class, don't fool Yourself. Portugal may be individually better and favorite on paper, but if Germans play disciplined, self-confident and aggressive enough, as they can do, the match will be very close, I don't dare to predict the outcome.

Not that I agree that portugal are "individually better", but the rest of your post should be answered by my posts on this page...

[footyfan1]

Not that I agree that portugal are "individually better", but the rest of your post should be answered by my posts on this page...

Most of which are quite ridiculous.

[squidward123]

I agree that Bilic read the game very well and inspired that to his players but Klose and Gomez were not lost...they were there and had good chances! They missed and blundered shot that should have gone in. They were just off their mark. The ice cold finishing was luke-warm.

After the 2nd half Croatia was able to stay calm and composed after they scored while Germany's reaction was amateurish to say the least.

I am guessing Bilic had a much better talk to his team than Loew did with ours.

The whole second half for Germany until Schweiny came on was terrible! Scheiny added a little bit of danger, motivation, and fighting-spirit that lacked before.


Cris...(i'll try my best to not repeat myself) I think that until the first goal, Germany passed more through the midfield while croatia went long accurately. The game was even pretty much. After the first goal, Croatia sat back a little and Germany had several good moves where they screwed up the penultimate or last pass. There were also quite a few aimless long passes after a couple of combinations in midfield would get either Frings or Ballack free to advance the move with advantage over the defence. Both sides had 2-3 good chances. Kranjcar (2), Gomez, Metzelder, Ballack, Klose (from 2 yards in front of goal..it was almost a sitter after a scrambled play!).

2nd half - Croatia sat back even more but had a few counterattacks and a few chances...I think Srna and Olic. More of the same as the first half from Germany but even became less and less structured as the game went on.

They more than had the possession to win score the goals they needed.

Croatia were very focused and clinical. Germany were unfocused when it mattered and looked overwhelmed near the end of the game.

[The Jitty Slitter]

disagree...the fact (and I've watched the game twice and can confirm) is that germany were shithouse with their final and penultimate passes after several good albeit not overly eye-catching passing moves. As well as their finishing. Germany had a lot more possession than croatia as a result and certainly had midfield parity. What they lacked was sharpness in the third of the field that croatia were defending.


EDIT : footy, have you watched the game a second time?

Go and watch the Croatia versus England at Wembley. You'll see all of the following which a tactically organized side should not allow. Yesterday we repeatedly saw these things.

1. A minority of Croatian attackers in space causing a greater number of disorganised english defenders to retreat

2. Localised superiority of numbers in central midfield allowing Modric and co to pass straight through the middle of the English midfield

3. Players like Petric operating in 'the hole' without a marker

4. Players in 'the hole' carrying the ball and running at the centre halves at pace, with no covering defensive midfield player.

In short, these are a classic signs of midfield superiority.

This is not like the Holland game where Italy kept getting busted down the middle from through balls. This is the Croatian middies playing straight through your midfield. Under no circumstances should that be happening.

[squidward123]

Most of which are quite ridiculous.

We'd get somewhere if you replied to my last post to you...

also, just wondering if you watched the game a second time?

[squidward123]

Go and watch the Croatia versus England at Wembley. You'll see all of the following which a tactically organized side should not allow. Yesterday we repeatedly saw these things.

.............

In short, these are a classic signs of midfield superiority.


Yes I agree this all happened at wembley...

2 and 4 hardly happened yesterday.

Did you watch the game a second time? It really could make a difference.

[footyfan1]

We'd get somewhere if you replied to my last post to you...

I'll do that. Had not saw it before this response.


also, just wondering if you watched the game a second time?

Actually, yes, I did. Nothing changed any of my opinions either.

Germany were frustrated by a team who stayed in their faces for most of 90 minutes.

[squidward123]

Germany were frustrated by a team who stayed in their faces for most of 90 minutes.

That croatia certainly did.

What we differ on is the extent of Germany's time in possession and the quality of it.

Also, some are making it sound like croatia were on the ball (literally, i mean) a lot and in attacking movements out-passed germany. I thought croatia did that very little.

[footyfan1]

You along with us were predicting a germany win...which points to germany in your opinion being somewhat better i thought?

level = an estimation formed from a large number of games.

Dude, what are you talking about? What does my prediction before the match have to do with what actually happened??

I said Germany would win, but I also said Croatia would give them all they can handle too.

Croatia not only gave Germany all it could handle, they beat Germany. What's your f'in point?

You are whining like I said Germany sucks or something. I said perhaps they aren't as good as you think they are. In different words, but that's what I meant.

Get freakin' real. You're whining almost as badly as a guy who posts here, but said on the e-mail list, "those screw-ups don't deserve to wear the eagle."

He was referring to Germany. Like you, he also refused to give Croatia credit for BEATING GERMANY!

Whether you want to see it or not, CROATIA BEAT GERMANY!

You keep talking all this bullshit about Croatia not being on Germany's level. Well, let's see. Both qualified for this tournament and Croatia just beat Germany. I'd say that puts Croatia at least close to Germany.

And guess what? What happened before this doesn't f#cking matter. They met and Croatia won. That's the bottom f#cking line.

The next time they meet, perhaps the result will be different if Low takes his head out of his ass. But this time, he didn't and Croatia won.

And all the f#cking talk about "levels" and all the bulls#hit excuses you come up with for Germany doesn't change a thing.

Croatia - 2 ----- Germany 1

That's what counts. Not who completed 500 passes more than the other or who had the ball longer. :rolleyes:

[squidward123]

Dude, what are you talking about? What does my prediction before the match have to do with what actually happened??

your prediction before the match to me implied that you think germany are a better team.

if it didn't mean to imply that then nevermind.

To me just one game, especially in a group stage, that was a good win but not dominating will not change my view.

I think croatia are close, but quite as good. In other words, if they meet again in this tournament my favourites are still germany.



As for the rest you are reading too much into my post...what whining and excuses are you talking about? I said germany were shit where they were shit, and said croatia did well what they did well...and croatia got majorly lucky with the 2nd goal. That's it.

I'm not blaming tactics or the coach or deflecting any blame from the players.