Espn and The Euros

[unclesox]

Regarding the red card:
If you look at it again (for those who recorded the match), Korodin's 'foul' on Sneijder happened well outside the box, almost near the touchline.
After consulting his assistant, the ref gave a goal kick.
The ref was obviously was told by his assistant that the ball had gone out of play. ;)

[red lass]

[
Originally Posted by johndaly
Is there anyone in the ESPN organization who actually knows something about the game of soccer? If there is, they should get rid of Smyth right away. He really is absolutely clueless! Just the fact that he thought the referee went over to the linesman to ask if he saw anything in the "foul" underlines the fact that he has not got a clue! The Dutch defender had attempted to keep the ball from going over the end line, a decision that the linesman would have made, not the referee.

However, Mr Numbskull Smyth says that he consulted the linesman about the "foul" when the linesman was seventy odd yards away and he was twenty! Once again, Mr Smyth has shown that he has so little idea about what is going on. He should be stuffed upside down in his auld onion bag and have Andy Gray shoot some balls at him!

I have to conclude johndaly that you are an idiot. How do you know what the ref asked the AR. According to you and several other posters logic. If the ref was told the ball was out of play then there was no YC. So I must conclude that with your vast knowledge of the game. If you want to conduct a violent act wait until the ball is out of play and there will be no YC.
Also your logic that the assistant ref was a good 70 yards away and the ref 20 if that be the logic why would he ever consult the AR about anything. Why did he not just make the call himself since the AR was so far away.

[jacknzoe]

For the record i think ESPN's coverage has been outstanding- with the exception of Foudy and Smyth (ESPN mainstays). I've never had a problem with Smyth's post match analysis or his articles, but his game commentary is aweful. It's as if his mouth gets out in front of his brain, even after seeing a slow motion replay and he's to hard headed to correct himself on the spot. Its only after the match when he's back behind the desk and given a chance to "digest" his obvious error does he concede. This has happened over and over again throught the tournament.
I'll say again- huge kudos to ESPN for Grey, O'Neal and Rae. Just my opinion.

[Amsteldam]

Of course they are still the elite. But it's not the kind of competition I wanna see.

For example, many experts have said that Jan Ulrich was actually the more gifted racing cyclist than Lance Armstrong but that Lance had the better drugs and/or responded better to them.

Of course we'll never know. But that's exactly why I don't care for cycling or athletics anymore. We don't know who's actually the best, but who responds best to the drugs. Olympic athletes are all among the very best, but could any given Gold Medalist win without the use of steroids? We'll never know.
You do know that roids are widespread in soccer also, dont you??
All those players that tested positive in Italy is just the tip of the iceberg.

Problem with all this is that the genie is out of the bottle, and you cant get him back in.
Athletes will always be one step ahead of the rules because there's always new designer steroids invented.

Next time you see Cristiano Ronaldo compare his pic with now and 4 years ago , you'll see lots of acne and bloatedness of the face.
Highly suspicious to say the least

[Chicago76]

Of course they are still the elite. But it's not the kind of competition I wanna see.

For example, many experts have said that Jan Ulrich was actually the more gifted racing cyclist than Lance Armstrong but that Lance had the better drugs and/or responded better to them.

Jan Ulrich was a more naturally gifted cyclist than Armstrong, but you want to know what his problem was? It wasn't that he didn't respond as well to EPO/steroids/etc. It was that his body didn't respond as well to training. Why? Because he didn't train as much. Which is why he showed up to nearly every tour during Amrstong's era of dominance 10-15 pounds overweight. More time on a bike. Less time getting caught with drugs on the party circuit and who knows how much he could have won.

[benztown]

Jan Ulrich was a more naturally gifted cyclist than Armstrong, but you want to know what his problem was? It wasn't that he didn't respond as well to EPO/steroids/etc. It was that his body didn't respond as well to training. Why? Because he didn't train as much. Which is why he showed up to nearly every tour during Amrstong's era of dominance 10-15 pounds overweight. More time on a bike. Less time getting caught with drugs on the party circuit and who knows how much he could have won.

Well, maybe he thought that he could replace training with EPO. But if you want to win, of course you still have to exercise. But I don't want to argue about that. My only point was that we cannot know if Lance would have been as dominant if there were no drugs.

Of course, everybody was cheating, so it was fair in a twisted kind of way. But it's still not the way it should be, because success depends as much on skill as it does on technology (drugs). Kinda like Formula 1 where the most talented driver might never win anything due to the bad car he's driving. I don't have a problem with that in racing, because the technology is part of what makes it fascinating. But in other sports, that shouldn't be a factor.

[benztown]

You do know that roids are widespread in soccer also, dont you??
All those players that tested positive in Italy is just the tip of the iceberg.

Problem with all this is that the genie is out of the bottle, and you cant get him back in.
Athletes will always be one step ahead of the rules because there's always new designer steroids invented.

Next time you see Cristiano Ronaldo compare his pic with now and 4 years ago , you'll see lots of acne and bloatedness of the face.
Highly suspicious to say the least

I guess you're right...maybe I'm deluding myself :rolleyes:

I was just thinking that in sports like football, drugs wouldn't make that much of a difference - you know, being a team sport and all. Also, it doesn't really matter if you run the 100m in 11 sec or in 11.5 sec. It's not about absolute numbers but about relative skills. Hence players would think twice about using drugs, not only because they could get caught (because with the right doctors, they wouldn't) but because they'd be gambling with their health.

But I guess in today's fast paced game, steroids really can make a difference and are hence more tempting...

[MNAFETSC]

I guess you're right...maybe I'm deluding myself :rolleyes:

I was just thinking that in sports like football, drugs wouldn't make that much of a difference - you know, being a team sport and all. Also, it doesn't really matter if you run the 100m in 11 sec or in 11.5 sec. It's not about absolute numbers but about relative skills. Hence players would think twice about using drugs, not only because they could get caught (because with the right doctors, they wouldn't) but because they'd be gambling with their health.

But I guess in today's fast paced game, steroids really can make a difference and are hence more tempting...

Sometimes I think maybe we should just accept and embrace these new circumstances. I look at my favorite sport baseball where stats and record are held at a much higher level than with any other sport but steroids has taken the magic and aweness out of them, but the game is still the same as it was before. I'll still watch these individual sports, I'm just not going to be impressed when they break world records.

[Chicago76]

Well, maybe he thought that he could replace training with EPO. But if you want to win, of course you still have to exercise. But I don't want to argue about that. My only point was that we cannot know if Lance would have been as dominant if there were no drugs.

Of course, everybody was cheating, so it was fair in a twisted kind of way. But it's still not the way it should be, because success depends as much on skill as it does on technology (drugs). Kinda like Formula 1 where the most talented driver might never win anything due to the bad car he's driving. I don't have a problem with that in racing, because the technology is part of what makes it fascinating. But in other sports, that shouldn't be a factor.

And without the cheating, a less powerful Lance would have met up with a less powerful Ulrich, who still carried a jelly belly up the first mountain stage due to too many nights out on the Euro club circuit even with the help of performance enhancers. I don't deny your premise that drugs by everyone doesn't necessarily level the playing field. However, I have heard way to many German voices lay blame at the feet of the performance enhancement for Ulrich's failures when 90% of it should be laid directly at the feet of Mr. Jan Ulrich. This is a guy who admitted he didn't really love cycling anymore and was burned out. He didn't train (with or without drugs) at a level that 90 percent of the other tour riders did. And it showed. He turned up to the start of tours fat. Not fat for a world class athlete, but fat even for your typical average joe who works out regularly. I don't by the he could replace training with EPO BS. Everyone else was training, and everyone was probably using EPO. Drugs are called "performance enhancers" for a reason. They don't replace training/performance. The only enhance it.

If Ulrich actually cared and bothered to train at an even average level, he could have won 3 of Armstrong's titles. But he didn't. And it had nothing to do with who "responded to drugs better" and everything to do with commitment--and staying away from nightclubs when he should have been planning his morning ride.

[Amsteldam]

Do you guys think we slightly hijacked this thread????? :D

[MNAFETSC]

Do you guys think we slightly hijacked this thread????? :D

Bigsoccer rule 321: Any thread that goes over a 100 posts must go off topic for at least one page, this will also apply for every additional hundred posts.

[kopiteinkc]

Bigsoccer rule 321: Any thread that goes over a 100 posts must go off topic for at least one page, this will also apply for every additional hundred posts.

Nice.

To recap:

1. Smyth and Foudy suck

2. Gray and Healy are awesome

3. Don't ever bring back O'Brien



All caught up, ok carry on .... :D

[Amsteldam]

But I guess in today's fast paced game, steroids really can make a difference and are hence more tempting...
If I'm a marginal big league prospect, and by taking steroids I can hit 30 homers and knock in 100 RBI's and thereby get a multimillion $$$ contract, you bet I'd be tempted to take steroids.

I know myself well enough that I probably would :o

[Red Devil11]

If anyone has any doubt that Smyth is absolutely clueless, consider this:- When the referee changed his mind about the sending off in the Russia Holland game, numbskull Smyth says that the referee went over to the linesman to ask him if he saw a foul! That underlines this clown's stupidity. The referee obviously went to ask if the ball had gone out of play just before the tackle. Of course, Mr. Smyth would figure that the referee would think the linesman had a better view of the "foul" from all of seventy five yards away when the referee was about twenty yards away.

Please, ESPN, get rid of this clown!!!!!!

Just by the by, Russia completely dominated the game and thoroughly deserved their win.
======================================================

Five days later, bemused fans watched as Slovakian referee Lubos Michel showed a red card for a second offence to Russian defender Denis Kolodin in their quarter-final with Netherlands only to withdraw it after talking to his linesman.

There was some speculation the second booking had been rescinded due to the ball having gone out of play, although this should in fact have no bearing on the sanctioning of a player.

UEFA later said the referee had simply been convinced by his assistant that Kolodin's tackle did not warrant a booking.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So who was the expert Smyth or all you know it alls.

[ExpatSwede]

For all the griping about Smyth, I actually think he has been vastly improved during Euro2008. Much less use of his usual cliches (" punches the 'ol onion bag! "). A vast improvement to his commentating during the last champions league season.

Now this may be swearing in the church, but my most hated commentator during Euro2008 is Andy Gray... Yikes has that man been annoying - most of it due to his
A) diatribes about the pros/cons of modern football, but mostly...
B) his constant bitching of the Refereeing standard.
EVERY SINGLE game he bitches about either the 'ref blowing apart the flow of the game, OR that he lets everything go. ("How is that not a foul" - try a drinking game with his every use of that phrase if you dare) Just let it go, man! Plus his opinion of whether or not a foul is really a foul is usually proved false with the first replay. Geez...

No I'll take Smyth over Gray anytime...

[caballero del Honor]

^agreed^

I've never heard any commentator in any sport complain as much as Andy Gray. As a result, any games covered by Andy Gray are just irritating. "This is the problem with modern football.....etc...etc."

Tommy Smyth is bearable and at times very funny, he just helps make the game more enjoyable. Anyone here heard GolTV's Ray Hudson, now he is the hybrid of Andy Gray and Tommy Smyth, a perfect hyrbid of rational comedic genius.

Roy Hudson I miss you already! :(

[Rainer24]

^agreed^

I've never heard any commentator in any sport complain as much as Andy Gray. As a result, any games covered by Andy Gray are just irritating. "This is the problem with modern football.....etc...etc."

Tommy Smyth is bearable and at times very funny, he just helps make the game more enjoyable. Anyone here heard GolTV's Ray Hudson, now he is the hybrid of Andy Gray and Tommy Smyth, a perfect hyrbid of rational comedic genius.

Roy Hudson I miss you already! :(


Ray Hudson is funny as hell, but he doesn't offer that much tactical insight.

Tommy Smyth seems very reluctant to admit when he has made a mistake in a comment. He wouldn't even retract his assertion that Panucci hadn't really fouled the Romanian guy for the penalty in that match, even after a replay showed him pulling the Romanian guy to the ground with a choke hold. That kind of gets on my nerves.

I find Gray much better, but I can tolerate Smyth as well.

[Romario'sgurl]

Nice.

To recap:

1. Smyth and Foudy suck

2. Gray and Healy are awesome

3. Don't ever bring back O'Brien



All caught up, ok carry on .... :D

That's all!

[johndaly]

So a referee standing twenty yards away takes the advice of a linesman standing seventy yards away and UEFA backs him up! Does that make sense to you? Could it be that the UEFA spokesman (a spokeman for an organization which has never been known to have irrationally backed officials, be they referees, administrators, etc. even when they are obviously wrong-please excuse the sarcasm) chose once again to back the official? I am not a "know all" but I do know that Tommy Smyth is a poor excuse for an announcer. When Ballack scored against Portugal, he described Ballack's push of the defender as a "nudge" when earlier he had criticized a Portugese defender for the same thing! It is that lack of consistency, understanding of the game, and pig headedness when he has been proved to be wrong by replays which adds to his overall ineptness.

[Warbuxx]

I don't have a problem with Andy Gray complaining about the officiating and the negative tactics by players. I think it's entirely warranted and kudos to him for stepping up rather than going with the flow.

These "nonsense" acts, as he calls them, need to be complained about more because its one of the only ways to bring the attention that results in changes being made.

If more soccer writers and broadcasters were vocal about these things we'd have a period of irritation, sure, but it would speed up the pressure on the empty suits at FIFA and UEFA and COMNEBOL, etc. to finally get their heads out of the sands and do something.

Last year (IIRC), the Scottish FA attempted to institute post-match reviews and bans. FIFA (or was it UEFA?.....can't quite recall ) stepped in and forced them to drop the idea because they want to retain the absurd "authority" of refereeing decisions. So we continue to have this diving and cheating garbage.

Thank you for loving the sport enough to try to save it from these clowns, Andy Gray.