MUFC board Official Euro 2008 thread!

[O Fenômeno]

I don't want to see another Portugal-Netherlands dive-off. The play-acting in the last one made me think I was watching the Copa America.

Nothing compares to that pu$$y ass display by those teams in WC 06..nothing jsut awful...Portugese, and Dutch males= PUSHPOP

[jpick]

Oh, here is what the italian refereeing association leader Gussoni had to say:

“The linesman applied UEFA’s ruling 100 per cent,” said Gussoni.

“He evaluated Panucci’s position as the player who kept Van Nistelrooy onside.

“I thought it was offside but the replay showed Panucci off the pitch.”

The rules specify on whether or not a player leaves the field voluntarily or involuntarily in an attempt to play the striker offside.

But, in Panucci’s case, it is impossible to tell whether he left the pitch voluntarily or vice-versa.
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this is what I was trying to say, it is the interpretation of the rule, some linesman would rule him as off involuntarily and hence, offside, but again it is not cut and dried, tough call on italy? yes, but not wrong.

[sdotsom]

Ahhh, thanks for that. It's a bit strange, a rule based on trying to judge a player's intention in that situation.

[Bronaldo]

It's a terrible rule. I can understand rules that are up for interpretation in terms for if the player was involved or passive, but judging the players intentions is almost impossible. If anything, Panucci should have gotten the benefit of the doubt as he is a defender, who should have been defending, rather than being off the field. He looked to be injured, not standing hoping to not get caught in some offside loophole.

[jpick]

yeah, the rule is made so if a defender falls or is stranded near the touch line on a corner or set piece/cross near the touch line, he can't just roll out and the rest of the team plays a trap and then catches an attacker who thought he was onside, off.

It is well-intentioned, but seems to have gray areas that are harsh and against the spirit of the rule. alas, it is what it is.

[Joelzinho]

Nothing compares to that pu$$y ass display by those teams in WC 06..nothing jsut awful...Portugese, and Dutch males= PUSHPOP

Interesting.

[prymetyme]

Article 11.4.1. says "an opposing player cannot be offside when one of the last two defenders has left the field of play"

At least the goal didn't decide the match.

[Chaz Striker]

It looked to me that he got shoved off the field. If that is the case then his intentions were noble. Can someone post a clip of the goal. It will add to the discussion. Pleasethanks

[Joelzinho]

It looked to me that he got shoved off the field. If that is the case then his intentions were noble. Can someone post a clip of the goal. It will add to the discussion. Pleasethanks

By his own goalie...lol

[prymetyme]

Here it is

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_6KQLOcyUrs&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_6KQLOcyUrs&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Vocalz]

It looked to me that he got shoved off the field. If that is the case then his intentions were noble. Can someone post a clip of the goal. It will add to the discussion. Pleasethanks

well if your thrown off the field by your keeper... I don't think there's a valid answer to this situation anyway. The ref did what he thought was right based on what he saw and the rules, looks can be deceiving and the linesman thought the same I would think since no flag was raised.

It is what it is and the call was made correctly, is it debatable? ya but not a wrong decision.

[benni...]

Ahhh, thanks for that. It's a bit strange, a rule based on trying to judge a player's intention in that situation.

Well it must;ve helped that it was an Italian. ;)

[Joelzinho]

Well it must;ve helped that it was an Italian. ;)

I love the Italian reaction. I was watching the game with some Italians. Its Great stuff.

[jpick]

At least the goal didn't decide the match.

true, the dutch would have won anyways.

big adjustments need to be made, and since head-to-head is the first tiebreaker, losing 3-0 might be for the best in some ways cause it will force donadoni to make changes and get de rossi, chiellini, grosso, cassano and possibly del piero and aquilani on the pitch and in better positions instead of being so stubborn. a 2-1 loss or a 1-0 loss may have allowed him to still keep his head in the sand, and say how "we were unlucky and need to just execute better and work harder blah, blah, blah" where as this result is a jolt to the system, so that is the (only) silver lining...not that it makes the defeat any less embarrassing. Of course, since I predicted italy crashing out in the first round due to many of these same issues that never got worked out in qualifying and were hidden by the friendly victories over portugal and belgium...I can't say I am too shocked at the loss, just the manner in which it happened.

also, as milan showed this year, one can take the need for experience too far. experience is great when balanced out with some youth, pace and vigor, but to have only 2 players 30 and under (pirlo and barzagli, and they are both upper-20's), that is just too much, especially when there are quality younger players like cassano, chiellini, de rossi, and aquilani wasting on your bench (many of whom are better than the players in front of them by a good margin). sorry Don, you messed up that one.

[Invincible]

The question is...why are some coaches so damn stupid? Domenech and Donatello or whatever his name is in particular. I mean...why? Such a criminal waste of talent.

[prymetyme]

true, the dutch would have won anyways.

also, as milan showed this year, one can take the need for experience too far. experience is great when balanced out with some youth, pace and vigor, but to have only 2 players 30 and under (pirlo and barzagli, and they are both upper-20's), that is just too much, especially when there are quality younger players like cassano, chiellini, de rossi, and aquilani wasting on your bench (many of whom are better than the players in front of them by a good margin). sorry Don, you messed up that one.

agreed. The balance in experience vs. youth was not close to being correct. Especially when the experience didn't do it's job with the lackluster response after the first goal.

[jpick]

agreed. The balance in experience vs. youth was not close to being correct. Especially when the experience didn't do it's job with the lackluster response after the first goal.

yeah, the argument against a guy like chiellini or gamberini at the back is if they go a goal down they might get shell-shocked or have moments of blood rushing to their heads, even if they are the better players in serie a (and they have been, by quite a good distance)...yet that is exactly what happened with the more experienced players, so you gained nothing but lost quality...hopefully donadoni saw this. For what it is worth, he is being excoriated in the italian press from what I am reading (not that that is a surprise), and most of the publications (and comments as well) are calling for big changes, and in the past he has been shown to be weak and wilt under intense scrutiny, so maybe even if he doesn't want to change, the press will force him to change (or the players, pirlo already came out and basically said donadoni screwed up by not playing de rossi, grosso, and subbing too late).

usually that is a bad thing when the press can bend a coach, but in this case it might be for the best.

[prymetyme]

yeah, the argument against a guy like chiellini or gamberini at the back is if they go a goal down they might get shell-shocked or have moments of blood rushing to their heads, even if they are the better players in serie a (and they have been, by quite a good distance)...yet that is exactly what happened with the more experienced players, so you gained nothing but lost quality...hopefully donadoni saw this. For what it is worth, he is being excoriated in the italian press from what I am reading (not that that is a surprise), and most of the publications (and comments as well) are calling for big changes, and in the past he has been shown to be weak and wilt under intense scrutiny, so maybe even if he doesn't want to change, the press will force him to change (or the players, pirlo already came out and basically said donadoni screwed up by not playing de rossi, grosso, and subbing too late).

usually that is a bad thing when the press can bend a coach, but in this case it might be for the best.

Perhaps it was not as wise as once thought to give Donadoni a new contract:p

Yeah, I think you have it completely right. The whole argument of experience vs. youth completely backfired. Whether Donadoni changes his tactics (although he doesn't have much of a choice) it shouldn't be because of the media. One of the biggest criticisms of a few German managers was that they let Kicker and Bild determine their starting eleven, and these managers were ultimately shown the door. Rudi Voller was an extremely conservative manager and generally every veteran was assured a pace in the starting XI. Donadoni needs to not be afraid to switch things up, and just do what he does best. He wouldn't be the manager for a team like Italy if he didn't have good instincts, he just needs to listen to the correct ones.

[cr7torossi]

Italy are not out of it yet. Donadoni can play Chiellini or Gamberini(as jpick pointed out) who are both much better CBs. And Cassano looked pretty impressive to me in his small run-out, I would think he might start the next match which would give them much better options in the attacking third.

[yikchi]

Is De Rossi hurt? I was shocked that he is not in the field. I thought Italy's AC Milan midfield trio didn't do much. Pirlo worked really hard but his passes wasn't coming off. The Dutch controlled the midfield well.