Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June [r]

[forza_azzurri]

I don't agree at all. Our weakness this year is central defense.

I have to see it to believe it.

I have a hard time even saying it ....

"Italy's defence is our weakness"


Doesn't sound right :o

[DaveyGorgeous]

We were horrible in qualifying. Seldomly seen such apathic, boring football in general - let alone from our NT.

If that is what we bring into this tournament... Then this will be a short ride.

I expect a better performance though, and more focus and confidence.

Agreed. Qualifiers is qualifiers. But I don't think one can say that what happaned in the qualifying stage is overconfidence, it is... just facts.

[DaveyGorgeous]

I have to see it to believe it.

I have a hard time even saying it ....

"Italy's defence is our weakness"


Doesn't sound right :o

I agree with the others two. I think our midfield has improved exponentially from years past. We are stacked with defensive midfielders - De Rossi, Gattuso, utility midfielders - Ambrosini, Perrotta, as well as having superb creative/attacking midfielders - Camo, Di Natale, Pirlo, Cassano.

I also agree with an early post that a somewhat weakness is fusing the midfield with the attack. Sometimes it did seem Toni was up there alone and had to make the most of his chances by his lonesome. But that weakness isnt as apparent as it was once.

Lastly, I would say that with the injury of Cannavaro, the retirement of Nesta and the lack of fitness from Materazzi, our central defense is now our biggest weakness. This does not mean it is subpar or poor but rather that it is not what it once was and is somewhat a cause of concern. Hopefully, with support from the likes of Zambrotta & Grosso/Panucci from the side, Buffon from behind and Gattuso & De Rossi from ahead, this weakness can be minimized.

[forza_azzurri]

I agree with the others two. I think our midfield has improved exponentially from years past. We are stacked with defensive midfielders - De Rossi, Gattuso, utility midfielders - Ambrosini, Perrotta, as well as having superb creative/attacking midfielders - Camo, Di Natale, Pirlo, Cassano.

I also agree with an early post that a somewhat weakness is fusing the midfield with the attack. Sometimes it did seem Toni was up there alone and had to make the most of his chances by his lonesome. But that weakness isnt as apparent as it was once.

Lastly, I would say that with the injury of Cannavaro, the retirement of Nesta and the lack of fitness from Materazzi, our central defense is now our biggest weakness. This does not mean it is subpar or poor but rather that it is not what it once was and is somewhat a cause of concern. Hopefully, with support from the likes of Zambrotta & Grosso/Panucci from the side, Buffon from behind and Gattuso & De Rossi from ahead, this weakness can be minimized.

I guess this will be tested in our first game. The Dutch are the most offensive minded team we play in the 1st round.

[Tribalsun]

nice to see someone other than us Portuguese having heated discussions with our Italian brethren :)

[forza_azzurri]

nice to see someone other than us Portuguese having heated discussions with our Italian brethren :)

We'll work on you guys later :D

[Tribalsun]

We'll work on you guys later :D


if that were the case then that would suggest Portugal is in the finals. I'll take it. from your mouth to God's ear. tell you what, if it happens, let's meet up at Vivoli on College street for the game. i'll bring my italian wife and my Porkitalian kids...LOL:D

[forza_azzurri]

if that were the case then that would suggest Portugal is in the finals. I'll take it. from your mouth to God's ear. tell you what, if it happens, let's meet up at Vivoli on College street for the game. i'll bring my italian wife and my Porkitalian kids...LOL:D

Italy-Portugal Final = WWIII

[Tribalsun]

Italy-Portugal Final = WWIII


yeah espcially in T.O. thank goodness not many italian teams playing at the hangar. most are still playing at Soccer Centre in woodbridge.

can you imagine the construction sites? never mind that, how about my family? i'd have to divorce my wife...LOL

good luck to you guys.:)

[VCFan]

Italy-Portugal Final = WWIII

So how exactly did this Portugal - Italy rivalry develop, anyways? Portugal hasn't been to very many world cups, so I'm guessing this was a pre-existing feud that translated into football once Portugal became a force to be reckoned with?

[forza_azzurri]

So how exactly did this Portugal - Italy rivalry develop, anyways? Portugal hasn't been to very many world cups, so I'm guessing this was a pre-existing feud that translated into football once Portugal became a force to be reckoned with?

You need to live in Toronto or the surrounding area to understand.

Let's just leave it at that :D

[Regency]

You need to live in Toronto or the surrounding area to understand.

Let's just leave it at that :D

It's actually stupid when you consider we never play them in a tournament and there is no rivalry with the fans in Europe. It's quite hurting if you ask me.

[canzano55]

in van der vaart and van persie we have some of the most attacking and creative minded players in the world (but theyre obviously not world class because they dont ply their trade in the serie A, so youve never seen them play.. fine maybe one game).

yet you treat Quagliarella as the returning of christ. take off the blindersThe difference between Quagliarella and Persie/VDV is underrated and overrated.

Van der vaart was supposed to be the next "big" Dutch star and I remember hopeful Ajax fans who thought some big club was going to swoop down and pony-up some ridiculous fee for what we now know to be a good but not great player. No surprise he ended up on an obscure German club (Hamburg).

Since joining Arsenal in 2004 Van Perise has made only 87 appearances scoring a grand total of 23 goals as a striker. Granted he is a very talented player when on form but thats basically been the story of his a career so far: a walking hospital ward.

Quagliarella isn't nearly as talented as either players so I don't know how you got the impression that he was the "returning of christ". However for the work he's put in at club and national level he's done quite well: in 35 appearances he scored 13 goals in '07 and this year he has amassed 12 goals in 37 appearances as a withdrawn forward which is not bad at all. For the national team he's scored 3 goals in 8 appearances to boot.

I think the whole cliche about the Dutch playing more offensive minded football and having the better collection of attacking players than Italy is a falsehood this time around because at face value Italy is the more attacking minded team with overall better offensive players.

[squidward123]

No surprise he ended up on an obscure German club (Hamburg).


hambug are not obscure in a historical sense...and for neighbouring dutch players it's a good place to go. There are many factors when deciding where to move

[canzano55]

hambug are not obscure in a historical sense...Yeah but what bearing does historical nostalgia have on transfers these days?

Its not like he went to Werder, Shalke, or Bayern which would be more credible employment in relation to the supposed value of Van der Vaart; but it didn't happen.

I can only speculate as to the reason but my guess would be that VDV is severely behind in his development and is not worth the investment. Granted he's being courted by big clubs right now but I refuse to believe VDV would fetch anything more than 8 - 10 million Euro's.

[AFCA]

VDV has had a strange development. When he was 18, he had all the looks of a megastar being born. But somewhere in his Ajax development he became slow, lazy and severely lacking in the mental area.

He's still slow as hell, but his passing game is good as is his tactical game.

But he's definitely not what we at Ajax expected him to become 7 years ago.

Sneijder on the other hand has everything VDV doesn't have. When VDV left, he did a great job in becoming the most important man. Fighting spirit, agression, power, technique, smart on and off the ball and a killer shot. Sneijder has saved the day for Ajax on so many occasions that I wouldn't even know where to start. He scores out of the blue with unstoppable distance shots.

The guy was huge in Amsterdam and currently probably the most appreciated man in the Dutch NT.

Van Persie is quality. I hope he is fit to prove you wrong.

[feyenoord_for_life]

canzano55

I think you're argument is pretty good, I havent learned how to mutli-quote (maybe im retarded i dont know), so i'll do this the ol' fashioned way

No surprise he ended up on an obscure German club (Hamburg).

I stand to be corrected, but when this first happened, I had read that it was more his decision to brush up his game and see it as a transition. Its true that HSV dont have the class of a Bayern or Weder, etc. but it also allowed a team to build their entire game around him, allowing him to show the world what he is capable of. Yah, it may sound a little b/s but you cant tell me a guy with all the hype he had, couldnt have lured one big club to sign him.

Since joining Arsenal in 2004 Van Perise has made only 87 appearances scoring a grand total of 23 goals as a striker. Granted he is a very talented player when on form but thats basically been the story of his a career so far: a walking hospital ward.

We experience this problem a lot. But if he were in fact Italian, at about 95% before a tournament, would you not do the exact same thing we are? When healthy, hes a game breaker. I dont think we could afford not to bring him as an insurance policy. enjoy (my fav.)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WLeiaMl4XDU

Quagliarella isn't nearly as talented as either players so I don't know how you got the impression that he was the "returning of christ". However for the work he's put in at club and national level he's done quite well: in 35 appearances he scored 13 goals in '07 and this year he has amassed 12 goals in 37 appearances as a withdrawn forward which is not bad at all. For the national team he's scored 3 goals in 8 appearances to boot.

I agree with what you say about Quagliarella, he has been great in the opportnities hes been given. In Holland we're a little over-critical of our players i guess you could say. Babel for example, has never until i think very recently been regarded as a quality player.

My returning of christ comment, was directed towards how the general media lift players to an extrodianry level. (sorry in advance for comparing you to England), but I cant stand going to any soccer-related site, and the biggest headline is some article about how much of a superstar Shaun Wright-Phillips or Quagliarella are. Every engishmen, italien who then may only watch a handful of games reads this, and spreads the word like its fire. and then i have to read 100 posts about it haha. that is all.

Italy is the more attacking minded team with overall better offensive players.

I think only a game of football can settle this, and lets hope its an entertaining one on monday.

[feyenoord_for_life]

On a side note, I cant obviously talk to the same level of detail about the italien squad as most of you. But it is interesting to here about the defence as being only human. I think one thing that may kill you is the lack of Inzaghi. There are only maybe 3 or 4 players in the world, where given the ball in the box, you know 100% without any doubt in your mind, that that ball is in the back of the net. We have one of those players and now you dont.

[johan neeskens]

I think the whole cliche about the Dutch playing more offensive minded football and having the better collection of attacking players than Italy is a falsehood this time around because at face value Italy is the more attacking minded team with overall better offensive players.

I'm in the Alps the next couple of weeks so can my fellow Dutch posters please store the above post and whack Canzano round the ears with it on Tuesday. Bedankt!

[johan neeskens]

Yeah but what bearing does historical nostalgia have on transfers these days?

Its not like he went to Werder, Shalke, or Bayern which would be more credible employment in relation to the supposed value of Van der Vaart; but it didn't happen.

I can only speculate as to the reason but my guess would be that VDV is severely behind in his development and is not worth the investment. Granted he's being courted by big clubs right now but I refuse to believe VDV would fetch anything more than 8 - 10 million Euro's.

Can I ask how often you've seen Van der Vaart play for his club over the past couple of years? Perhaps you can ask a random German how they rate him.