Does Anyone Else Have a Problem With This?

[SMUPlayer]

Europe for the newly un-relegated?

[superdave]

I don't have a problem. Them's the rules.

I'm almost positive that Ipswich Town got into the UEFA Cup via Fair Play when they were relegated, and played in it from then-Division One.

[Revelian]

It's all a load of bollocks, but it's not ripe for exploitation. If a team wants to qualify for it next season, for example, they would be relying on two things:

1) Not picking up many bookings or dismissals.

2) Hoping that the other clubs in the Prem do the same thing.

Only a fool would have this method as their action plan. If you're asking your players to take it easy, you're talking about relegation form. They would get trounced. The Prem is supposed to be fast and furious. That's what makes it the product it is.

Anyway - it's funny how many clubs that start the season pre-occupied with Europe can go down. It happened to us in 98-99. I remember it happening to Ipswich too, I believe. When you haven't got a massive squad, and you're contesting in four tournaments, an inury or two will not only jeapordise your European hopes, but will also affect your form in the three remaining competitions.

Revelian

[dring1]

It's all a load of bollocks, but it's not ripe for exploitation. If a team wants to qualify for it next season, for example, they would be relying on two things:

1) Not picking up many bookings or dismissals.

2) Hoping that the other clubs in the Prem do the same thing.

Only a fool would have this method as their action plan. If you're asking your players to take it easy, you're talking about relegation form. They would get trounced. The Prem is supposed to be fast and furious. That's what makes it the product it is.

Anyway - it's funny how many clubs that start the season pre-occupied with Europe can go down. It happened to us in 98-99. I remember it happening to Ipswich too, I believe. When you haven't got a massive squad, and you're contesting in four tournaments, an inury or two will not only jeapordise your European hopes, but will also affect your form in the three remaining competitions.

Revelian

it is not right that a team finish below us and gets into europe. it is a back door entry. the place should go to the team who finishes 6th place and then we get the intertoto. next season we might as well finish 17th, not make any tackles and get into europe.

[Revelian]

If you'd rather risk getting relegated, instead of finishing in a respectable position in the table go for it. I disagree, but I see your point. Fulham will now be more likely to sign decent players who want to play in Europe, which is to the detriment of better clubs like ours. I wouldn't want to take the risk of going soft on anyone. Look at the complete and utter capitulation of Man City at the hands of Boro once they were instructed not to make any fouls.

Revelian

[BlackburnRover]

I'm split on this one. Like Dave said rules are rules and fair enough to Fulham. Although, like Rev said, you deffo can't play to qualify like this unless you want to be relegated.

The problem I have is that I thought the fair play league was just down to yellows and reds, but it's far more subjective than that. Teams are awarded points for

Respect shown to ref max 5 points
Respect shown to opponent 5 points
Behaviour of club's officials 5 points
Behaviour of fans 5 points
Positive play 10 points

So you can avoid bookings all season and still be stuffed if someone doesn't take a shine to you.

Who decides all this? Is there a team of Fair Play police at every game looking at every aspect from fans dropping litter to Lehman giving the fans the sneaky finger? Who looks at fans' behaviour? Is it number of arrests, or do they listen to the singing for 90 minutes and knock points off for nasty stuff? Bizarre. What about behaviour of officials, constantly chewing gum like a maniac, -1 point? Who decides this shit?

All this is why it's taking so long to decide who qualifies, City or Fulham. Mr. Prude of the Fair Play police has to count how many fans were picking their noses.

OK that's all taking it to extremes but the point is it's all a bit subjective to base European qualification on. I was sure the league that won it in the past was just awarded an extra place that went to the next highest placed team (us), or I could have dreamt it. It might just be another one of those that changes every year.

Anyway, on the bright side it'll probably get Fulham relegated next year;)

[SMUPlayer]

This is just the weirdest thing that I have ever seen. I have never heard of such a subjective way of determining something.

[Revelian]

Yeah, I mean, what DO they base it on? Racism, number of arrests/police interventions?

At the end of the day, UEFA are shooting themselves in the foot, in spectacular fashion.

Who watches the UEFA Cup? I mean, who's glued to it, and thinks its better in any way than the Champions League. No one but the fans. UEFA are supposed to show the BEST teams available to them. So who do they pick? Cannon fodder for sleeping giants.

Surely, to make this ugly sister of the Champions League look more attractive, picking better teams, rather than polite ones, might be the right place to start.

Revelian

[BlackburnRover]

Maybe they're trying to change the format of the competition and will have goals awarded for being jolly decent to each other.

Food seller took over 5 seconds to work out order and change, -1 goal.

What other criteria could we base it on?

Actually I don't mind the idea of all this, it's just how they've implemented it that's bizarre. Although it is UEFA.

[Revelian]

I'd also expect these kinds of piss-poor ideas from FIFA too. They're all a bunch of chimps, really - all in it for themselves.

Revelian

[USRoverDE]

Sorry, but you guys are way off base here, in my view....

They've opened up 2 spots (or is it three) in the Intertoto (not even teh UEFA Cup Proper) I believe, in order to promote fairplay.

Yes the emans of rewarding and grading "fairplay" are abstract, but are you guys blinked or bonkers. It has nothing to do with food sellers or anything of the like. Look at the categories:

Respect shown to ref max 5 points (lose points for ref crowding and swearing and dissent)
Respect shown to opponent 5 points (lose points for
Behaviour of club's officials 5 points (lose points for managers and owners mouthing off to press)
Behaviour of fans 5 points (lose points for violence, invasions, etc)
Positive play 10 points (I dislike this the most, but I guess the idea is rewarding less physical play)

I might disagree with how it gets scored (ie how does ManU and siralex top the list despite Rooney's swears, ronaldo's diving, alex's mouthing off and the crowding, etc), but can you really argue with the intent?

[SMUPlayer]

but can you really argue with the intent?

The entire point of me opening this thread. What happened to winning it on the field?

You want something for being nice? How about a trophy for that. They have the Lady Bing in hockey. Why not the Queen's Trophy for football? Anything but giving them a place in Europe.

[BlackburnRover]

You're right, we were getting carried away with the sarcasm about food sellers etc. We pretty much agree that it's not a bad idea to award places for fair play, and it has happened before.

We just find the methods of awarding that place to be very subjective. It took a while after the final game of the season for City to be awarded the place over Fulham. I don't think that should happen, it should be clear cut what you're going to get for such a big prize, not down to the whim of a committee. The comments about food sellers etc was just exaggerating (by a long way) what a ridiculous situation it is.

Actually if you look at the league here the scoring's changed a bit, nothing to do with fans this season.

http://www.premierleague.com/page/FairPlayTable/0,,12306,00.html

But it raises even more questions.

Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea apparently have a decent amount of respect for the refs! WTF! Recently they've been held up as bad examples in the campaign to give refs more respect, by the FA of all people.

Arsenal's officials behave better than ours. Even though Arsene is never out of the press whinging about something and pretty much accused the refs/FA of ensuring Arsenal didn't win the league. Sparky did respond to Pedersen being throttled though.

Chelsea have only one point less than Man U for positive play!

Arsenal and Chelsea have far more respect for opponents than us even though they are constantly attempting to gain advantage by diving etc. Showing no respect for anyone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should have got anywhere near being awarded the place. But it just shows that a lot of this is very, very subjective. Of course, we don't know thw criteria all this is scored against, but looking at the examples above it seems the people awarding the points don't either.

It's all very vague for such an important issue. So there were some serious concerns in with all the sarcasm ;)

[BlackburnRover]

I knew I got the crowd behaviour thing from somewhere, it's on UEFAs site.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=1/newsid=693443.html

There are better examples but I can't be bothered looking.

We weren't seriously suggesting food seelers should have an effect you know. Just saying the existing method is a bit crap, and not entirely a reflection of reality. Man U have a lot of respect for refs my arse.

[USRoverDE]

well its entirely possible that this won't be a problem in the future as the intertoto is scrapped after next season, unless that's changed.

And I think my point was that the people doing the scoring might be flawed, but the scoring system isn't in theory, if that make sense.

[BlackburnRover]

Yep, that makes sense, I agree with it too. I just don't have enough faith in the people running the system that's all, and with that being the case I think they should have a more objective way of doing things.

But yeah, it'll all change again next year.

[Revelian]

Man City should not be in Europe. If they want, someone can make up a crappy little trophy for their cabinet at Eastlands, but they shouldn't be playing in Europe when we can't and our league form was better. That's the bottom line.

Revelian

[JohnHolmesJr]

Since we lost our last game against BC I feel we do not deserve it. We had chances but we seem to pla at he same level as the competition all year.

Not that I am complaining. I love Rovers!!!!!!!

Next year the big four better watch out. We will be in Champions play.

[Revelian]

By the same gesture, Man City should be playing in the Championship. Boro shat all over them 8-1 in their last game!

Revelian

[dring1]

Since we lost our last game against BC I feel we do not deserve it. We had chances but we seem to pla at he same level as the competition all year.

Not that I am complaining. I love Rovers!!!!!!!

Next year the big four better watch out. We will be in Champions play.

you are kidding your self. we had the chance of champions league this season but blue it with players sulking and some off them not on top form. the top four are a million miles away and the best we can hope for is a top 5 finnish or a cup.