Is there a DVR for my needs?

[Kryptonite]

I want to record without the hassle of VCR (honestly, this is the reason why I haven't recorded anything in years.) Hell, i've forgotten how to record to a VCR. Why bother? It takes longer setting the whole deal up than it does to watch the tape. And the picture quality looks like crap anyway.

I don't want to pay a monthly fee. My monthly fees are already through the roof. Honestly, I don't like the whole idea of "pay to record" either. Yes, I do realize a DVR is so much more than recording, but that's what i'd be using it for.

I want to be able to select something on the program guide from either my cable box or the DVR, choose the record option and not have to worry about if it's going to work or not.

A second tuner would be awesome, but not entirely necessary.

The phone line might be an issue, but IIRC, doesn't it just use the phone line to download the latest firmware updates and schedule info? I already have the on-screen guide that came with my cable box, so I really don't see a need for two guides on one TV.

I do understand, that once upon a time, there was a service called Tivo Basic. I was looking at a Toshiba SD-H400 on eBay.

Am I totally screwed here? Is there any DVR that I can use without paying yet another $^#@%$#% monthly fee?

[dark knight]

Buy a Tivo on ebay with a lifetime subscription. There is a rumor that some Humax machines still have lifetime as an option.

[Motterman]

http://weaknees.com/

You can buy lifetime Tivo and get a DVR with enough space to well... almost last a lifetime. :p

[Foosinho]

I'd just like to point out that you aren't paying "to record"... you're paying for the guide data in a format your PVR can understand. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of the beast.

You can either (a) pay a monthly fee from your normal provider, (b) buy a TiVo with a livetime service agreement (ie, guide data for as long as the box works, for a significant up-front fee), or (c) build a MythTV box and pay 20 clams a year for guide data.

I've done B and C, both of which I find preferable to a $5 monthly fee. I'm currently paying a nickle a day for guide data for my MythTV box, which I think is totally reasonable. It is, after all, the guide data that elevates a PVR above a digital VCR.

I should add, I turned on a coworker to MythTV. He's not a TV watcher; he occasionally watches stuff on PBS, the Simpsons, and M*A*S*H reruns. That's about it. He's managed to get away with not paying for guide data and relying on the "EIT" data that is broadcast over-the-air for HDTV channels. It only provides information for the next few hours, but since he watches so little, he doesn't have to worry about conflict resolution, because two things he likes to watch are never on at the same time. It's enough for MythTV to be able to pick up his shows whenever they are on, so he still can just sit down and pull up the recordings list and have stuff he likes to watch available on his schedule.

[canesfan00]

I'd just like to point out that you aren't paying "to record"... you're paying for the guide data in a format your PVR can understand. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of the beast.

You can either (a) pay a monthly fee from your normal provider, (b) buy a TiVo with a livetime service agreement (ie, guide data for as long as the box works, for a significant up-front fee), or (c) build a MythTV box and pay 20 clams a year for guide data.

I've done B and C, both of which I find preferable to a $5 monthly fee. I'm currently paying a nickle a day for guide data for my MythTV box, which I think is totally reasonable. It is, after all, the guide data that elevates a PVR above a digital VCR.

I should add, I turned on a coworker to MythTV. He's not a TV watcher; he occasionally watches stuff on PBS, the Simpsons, and M*A*S*H reruns. That's about it. He's managed to get away with not paying for guide data and relying on the "EIT" data that is broadcast over-the-air for HDTV channels. It only provides information for the next few hours, but since he watches so little, he doesn't have to worry about conflict resolution, because two things he likes to watch are never on at the same time. It's enough for MythTV to be able to pick up his shows whenever they are on, so he still can just sit down and pull up the recordings list and have stuff he likes to watch available on his schedule.


I tried a similar route and built a computer to be my DVR using Windows Media Center. I failed miserably and can only blame Windows since I have exhausted every option to make it work and no one seems to know what is wrong with this inferior product. I will create a new one at a later time to make up for this error, but would you care to share how your myth tv process came about? I read up on it a few years back, but forgot most of the info about it, could you refresh my memory on the product and share your experience with the product. Thanks for the info.

[Foosinho]

MythTV is a linux-based open source PVR project. It's incredibly feature-rich. The UI is not a slick as a TiVo, but much better than every vendor-provided PVR I've laid eyes on. I can interact with every aspect of the PVR over the web - including watching shows. In fact, I do 100% of my scheduling via the web interface. It's much more flexible than other PVRs, and with the newest capabilities you can easily continually expand your storage capacity just by adding new drives. I have 3 computers involved in my PVR, but it can be as simple or complicated as you want. You can easily stuff it all in one box, or set up a networked PVR like I have meaning all the same recordings are available on every "frontend" (aka, TV with a MythTV box hooked to it).

There are even specialized distributions available with MythTV already rolled in (Mythdora is the one I use now). So you don't have to be a sysadmin-level user; but you can't be a complete computer idiot either. Once it's set up and running, you'll probably never have to touch it again (but if you like to tinker, you probably will continually tweak things).

It's not perfect; recording HD is a technical challenge, especially since many provider systems are "closed". I get my HD via an antenna (ie, just locals), so it's pretty straightforward, but this integration issue is the only reason I haven't stepped up to DirecTV HD, and one of the big reasons I haven't switched to U-Verse (with HD). I love it, tho - my TiVo is only used by my wife now, but she doesn't seem to see the value in HDTV, for some insane reason. (It took her a while to warm up to PVRs too, but now she's a hard-core advocate, despite still watching LiveTV from time-to-time.)

[dark knight]

I'd just like to point out that you aren't paying "to record"... you're paying for the guide data in a format your PVR can understand. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of the beast.

You can either (a) pay a monthly fee from your normal provider, (b) buy a TiVo with a livetime service agreement (ie, guide data for as long as the box works, for a significant up-front fee), or (c) build a MythTV box and pay 20 clams a year for guide data.

I've done B and C, both of which I find preferable to a $5 monthly fee. I'm currently paying a nickle a day for guide data for my MythTV box, which I think is totally reasonable. It is, after all, the guide data that elevates a PVR above a digital VCR.

I should add, I turned on a coworker to MythTV. He's not a TV watcher; he occasionally watches stuff on PBS, the Simpsons, and M*A*S*H reruns. That's about it. He's managed to get away with not paying for guide data and relying on the "EIT" data that is broadcast over-the-air for HDTV channels. It only provides information for the next few hours, but since he watches so little, he doesn't have to worry about conflict resolution, because two things he likes to watch are never on at the same time. It's enough for MythTV to be able to pick up his shows whenever they are on, so he still can just sit down and pull up the recordings list and have stuff he likes to watch available on his schedule.

Just also worth mentioning that with Tivo there are a lot of various benefits which I'm not sure MythTV gives you - such as all the various wireless networking benefits - transferring shows between rooms on different Tivos, programming recording of Champions League you forgot to tape from your iphone when you are stuck in traffic, downloading blogs like from the New York Times, apparently soon to be able to access youtube, etc.

Being able to download within 20 minutes of a show start from the internet for me is a great tool.

[Foosinho]

Just also worth mentioning that with Tivo there are a lot of various benefits which I'm not sure MythTV gives you - such as all the various wireless networking benefits - transferring shows between rooms on different Tivos, programming recording of Champions League you forgot to tape from your iphone when you are stuck in traffic, downloading blogs like from the New York Times, apparently soon to be able to access youtube, etc.

Don't be so sure - I can do all of those things on my MythTV setup, tho I have little doubt many of them are "slicker" on the TiVo. I can also browse newsgroups, integrate downloaded videos into the TV viewing system, surf the web, burn DVDs of recorded shows, play music, rip music and movies into the system for later playback, etc. The web interface for MythTV is superb. I can view disc status (space available, etc), check guide data, view listings, schedule recordings, view the upcoming recordings, watch recorded shows (if the bandwidth is there, of course), and more. I don't know if there is an iPhone-optimized interface (I don't have an iPhone, so I don't really care), but if there isn't yet I'm sure one will show up very shortly.

Like I said, generally speaking I'd rate the TiVo's interface second-to-none. Feature-wise, I think MythTV is equal to or surpasses TiVo, especially in "back-end" features that are transparent to the end user. For example, I recently expanded from 1.5TB of storage space to 2.0TB, by adding another computer to the network and telling MythTV's backend - the recording application - to use that NFS mounted space for storage. To the person sitting at the TV, it looks identical, and you have no idea which actual hard drive any given show is sitting on; they all play identically.

I'm not trying to disparage TiVo, BTW. It was my introduction to PVRs, and I think it's great. For most people, it's the way to go; MythTV isn't for everyone, because it isn't a polished commercial product that is "plug-n-play", unlike the TiVo.

[dark knight]

I wasn't so sure that why I said I'm not sure. :)

Good to know - it makes sense that you could do as much with MythTV and I'm glad there is another option if Tivo ever goes belly up.

The only thing is - you only get a few hours of programming at a time? That seems like a big drawback if you can't search for two weeks at a time.

[Foosinho]

The only thing is - you only get a few hours of programming at a time? That seems like a big drawback if you can't search for two weeks at a time.
If you rely on EIT data, like my coworker does (which is free). I pay $20 annually to "SchedulesDirect" to get data up to two weeks in advance. It's worth it, especially since I record enough stuff (with only one DirecTV tuner) that the scheduler needs to be able to resolve conflicts.

[Kryptonite]

and one of the big reasons I haven't switched to U-Verse (with HD).


AT&T (U-verse) is currently offering various incentives to new customers. I was offered my choice of up to $150 in Visa gift cards, $100 off the first bill, free installation up to 3 (or 4??) tv's, etc.

So, I was looking at them, and they seem like they have a long way to go. It's all digital, which means that every TV needs a box. The kitchen TV would probably have to go, or have some serious work done. There's currently no place there to put a box. There's also the impracticality of attaching a box to a 3" TV used only for local channels. If a box could have gone in that area, we'd be getting 2 HD boxes (that's all they seem to have) and 1 HD-DVR. Or, at least, this is what they -claim- is HD. They only offer one HD stream, which, due to some phone calls, I learned is something like this:

1) You want to watch NBC on one TV, and someone wants to watch CBS on another TV. That's good, but one of you will be watching in SD. Even if you have two HDTV's.

2) You want to DVR FOX-HD and watch HDNet at the same time. Once again, there's only one HD stream, so you're going to record Fox-SD.

I did like their pricing scheme though. If you want FSC, it would be $79.99 for the U-300 (FSC) and add another $14 for HBO, putting you up to $93. At that point, the $10 sports pack (GolTV) only costs $6 per month AND you get Cinemax for free.

However, it didn't seem like they offered anything in the way of MLB Extra Innings, NHL Center Ice, etc. Sure, you'd get the channels, but I smell blackouts.

There was also the issue of the exploding backup batteries, which you can read about online. Apparently they have various "hubs" around town, which are backed up by some sort of battery power. Of course, if they explode, that's going to cost them a lot of time, and you a lot of missed TV and internet (unless you can mooch off your neighbor's signal.)

Needless to say, U-Verse isn't arriving at this address anytime soon.