Streamers & Other Objects You Can Throw @ Opponents

[WestSeattle]

Mod Note: Originally posed in Mafia Verde thread: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14540375&postcount=15

I have never seen confetti or streamers endanger a player.

Point taken, I shouldn't have said endanger, I should have said "interfere", and I see streamers flying around like trash on the pitch, affect a player from time to time. Chivas USA for example, produces an awful lot of streamers, and for some reason they often seem to get in the way.

Sometimes it just modifies the kick a little, or modifies the angle at which they approach, in the worst scenarios, the damn things are literally flying around like tissue paper worms, and its an awful distraction to the players.

Personally, I hate that crap, just loathe it, I think it turns soccer into a metro-pride parade. However, I have to realize its part of the soccer culture now in North America, and its a large part of the entertainment some fans extract from a match. They pay for their tickets just like I do, and have every right to enjoy themselves, as I do.

But yeah, streamers don't make players trip and hurt themselves, but it can affect play on the pitch.

[SeattleSupporter]

I have never seen confetti or streamers endanger a player.

Point taken, I shouldn't have said endanger, I should have said "interfere", and I see streamers flying around like trash on the pitch, affect a player from time to time. Chivas USA for example, produces an awful lot of streamers, and for some reason they often seem to get in the way.

Sometimes it just modifies the kick a little, or modifies the angle at which they approach, in the worst scenarios, the damn things are literally flying around like tissue paper worms, and its an awful distraction to the players.

Personally, I hate that crap, just loathe it, I think it turns soccer into a metro-pride parade. However, I have to realize its part of the soccer culture now in North America, and its a large part of the entertainment some fans extract from a match. They pay for their tickets just like I do, and have every right to enjoy themselves, as I do.

But yeah, streamers don't make players trip and hurt themselves, but it can affect play on the pitch.

That I can agree with.
I have mixed feelings about this.

I am not sure if the ECS will take after the supporters in Toronto and pepper the corner taker with streamers.
I think that there is a greater chance that we may cover the goal with them when the Sounders are attacking the south goal.

If the people in the sections near the corners want to bury the corner taker in streamers, that is up to them.

[bright]

I think tifo is like graffiti. It is creative and often has something funny or interesting to say. Streamers on the field is like tagging. Totally uncreative and disruptive, and just a way for obnoxious idiots with low self-esteem to involve themselves in the game at the expense of the actual sport being played on the field. The streamers in the corner at TFC games are annoying. I want to watch soccer, not those idiots in the corner. The playing field should be treated with respect.

- Paul

[WestSeattle]

I love it when groups unveil huge flags, or orchestrate both visual and audio compliments to the game, when it is contained in the stands. Singing is the best, a match without one or two loud songs along the way, seems hollow. Kudos to supporters groups for often leading the way on what songs to sing and when.

Checking stuff onto the pitch, doesn't seem as impressive by comparison. Again, I am really in no position to judge, to each their own.

Also I hate getting confetti in my hair, or worse, stuck to my driver cap. :)

[koolkeith13]

The playing field should be treated with respect.


Just like scarfs that are given to you by supporters' groups, huh?

[bright]

Checking stuff onto the pitch, doesn't seem as impressive by comparison. Again, I am really in no position to judge, to each their own.

How are you not in a position to judge? You are in the majority of the audience watching the game. These low self-esteem idiots are not.

What is impressive about low self-esteem idiots screwing up the game for everyone else? Let the players do what we are there to watch them do: play soccer.

They act like they have a right to do whatever they want to the players. Then I guess it's just fair that we (representing our players) have a right to do whatever we want to them. I want to know where the visiting TFC fans will sit so we can throw shit at them.

- Paul

[bright]

Just like scarfs that are given to you by supporters' groups, huh?

I didn't ask for it, and I paid you for it right there. I own it, I can do with it as I please. A small segment of obnoxious fans do not own the players or the 90 minutes of the game that the rest of the audience has paid to see. Capice?

- Paul

[SeattleSupporter]

I didn't ask for it, and I paid you for it right there. I own it, I can do with it as I please. A small segment of obnoxious fans do not own the players or the 90 minutes of the game that the rest of the audience has paid to see. Capice?

- Paul


http://www.gaming.pstp.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/waaaambulance-23284.jpg

[bright]

Waaaaaatever. I was pointing out the difference between an inanimate object that I own versus TFC fans throwing shit at human beings trying to play a game and entertain the paying audience.

- Paul

[SeattleSupporter]

Waaaaaatever. I was pointing out the difference between an inanimate object that I own versus TFC fans throwing shit at human beings trying to play a game and entertain the paying audience.

- Paul

And I am saying the way you went about it made you sound like a 5 year old girl who had her favorite lollipop taken from her.

I value my scarf more than I value the opposing players. :D

[WestSeattle]

What is impressive about low self-esteem idiots screwing up the game for everyone else? Let the players do what we are there to watch them do: play soccer.

I think this stuff boils down to where your own personal comfort level is. I can be a snob sometimes, so I try to watch myself to make sure I don't go overboard. So yeah, I can't stand streamers on the pitch, I find them annoying.

However, I also know I'm older, and I also know that when I was younger, I might have indulged in such things. I don't watch cheap slasher movies anymore, I'd rather play FIFA '08 than GTIV, and when I do play GTIV, I have no interest at all in a video-game lap dance, and find such features childish and laughable.

Ah but if I were thirty years younger? When I was 30 years younger, didn't I enjoy the fire and brimstone of a KISS concert? And didn't I practice stunts trying to breathe fire myself? And 25 years ago, didn't I bully fans of the opposing team to the point where they were uncomfortable in my stadium? Didn't I scam my way into pubs at the age of 17, and get far too drunk before a match? And didn't I run out onto the pitch and disrupt the trophy presentation, in youthful rage and skirmish with coppers along the way?

I did all those things to be honest Paul, so clearly, I am in no position to judge. I was guilty of far worse in my time, is what I am trying to say.

You on the other hand, are probably far more sensible than I was in my youth, and are probably in a greater position to call a shovel a shovel.

I do, to be honest, regret the fact that American fans have picked up the bad habits of Italian fans. Then again, in Toronto in the 80's, we picked up a lot of the bad habits of English fans, and to be honest, the bad habits of the English fan in that era were far worse than tossing pink ribbons onto a field.

[bright]

I value my scarf more than I value the opposing players. :D

It sounds funny. But it isn't.

It's attitudes like that, Sean, that are the foundation for violence at soccer games.

Along those lines, I can't believe that any stadium would allow the fans to throw things at the players. That is a slipper slope. Some drunk idiot could throw something hard along with the streamers and hurt the player.

- Paul

[SeattleSupporter]

It sounds funny. But it isn't.

- Paul

Lighten up Francis.
http://teamfrancis.emrydesign.com/francis.jpg

Let me know the next time a player is carried off because he tripped on a streamer.

I will agree that they might disrupt the play, but I have a hard time believing that anyone has been injured because of them.

You are now using the "one thing could lead to another" argument.
Well, even if they did not allow streamers to be tossed on the pitch, that would not stop someone who wanted to throw a hard object at a player.

Maybe they should stop selling beer at the stadium.
You know, considering that it could lead to people getting drunk and getting in a wreck on the way home from the match....

[koolkeith13]

Along those lines, I can't believe that any stadium would allow the fans to throw things at the players. That is a slipper slope. Some drunk idiot could throw something hard along with the streamers and hurt the player.

I agree with you there. I've been there and done that and immediately regretted it (throwing a plastic beer bottle which missed the target, fortunately).

Guys, I'm going to move these posts since they aren't relevant to Mafia Verde or Jade's new group.

[FuzzyForeigner]

It's attitudes like that, Sean, that are the foundation for violence at soccer games.

- Paul

c'mon man

we are so far away from violence at soccer matches in the US it aint even funny.

[WestSeattle]

we are so far away from violence at soccer matches in the US it aint even funny.

I am sure ECS is as far away from hooliganism as you can get with a supporter's group.

I do want to say that violence can erupt pretty quickly, and the most common reason is simply: alcohol. Getting too drunk at matches can push anyone to do stupid things, that lead to violence.

We see it all the time at Seahawk games as I'm sure many of you know.

I just want to offer up a warning, any of us can find ourselves doing things we later regret if we let alcohol and fanaticism get the better of us.

The big difference, is most supporters don't go out *looking* for trouble, which of course supporters in England we're clearly guilty of, during the ugliest days of English hooliganism.

Still, trouble can find you, if you're not careful. I don't say that to preach or wag my finger, but to simply state a simple fact: get any of us drunk enough, and put the right combination of external factors together, and we can all find ourselves doing things we regret.

Most of you, are probably smart enough not to get that drunk, I am not that smart, sadly, and I've had to remove myself from sporting events, when I know I am getting out of hand, and that kind of danger and stupidity becomes more likely.

The good news is soccer here doesn't have cultural or political edges to it. It's not divided by religion, income, education or political parties, as it is in other regions. A match between America and UNAM has an edge to it, that can become a fuse for trouble. The same between a match between West Ham and Chelsea, and of course the rift between Celtic and Rangers is legendary.

Still, I saw (and was part of) small violent flares in NASL, and I've seen violence flare up at Seahawk games. In fact, the closest we have to "cultural" clashes in Seattle are Oakland/Seattle games in the NFL, and Yankee/Mariner games.

The Oakland/Seattle is an old rift based on how some fans stayed with the Raiders (which was traditionally the NFL team for this region), even after the league expanded to adopt the Hawks. Those matches tend to produce more violence than any sporting match I know in this town.

The Yankee/Mariner rift, seems to come from a resentment from locals (rghtly so I think), that east coast fans who come to live here, never adopt the teams here, but defiantly root for teams in their old homes. I get why someone born a Yankee fan, stays a Yankee team, but seeing someone who abandoned New York 20 years ago, for this greener, lusher more prosperous region, and then talk smack when his 300 million dollar team beats up on the locals, tends to create resentment, and sometimes violence.

In every violent incident I've seen, alcohol was really the key catalyst, on both sides of the fight.

Also for what it is worth, I've never seen a fight in the stands for games against Portland in either basketball or hockey. Maybe I just didn't attend the right games?

Anyway, one day I'll be at a Sounder game, and a fight will break out. It won't be any supporter's groups fault if it does, it will probably break out because two alpha-males had too much to drink, got caught up in a verbal pissing contest and neither were smart enough to back down from the other.

I swear that's how 90% of the fights I've seen break out in the stands, have started.

My fighting days are long, long over (I'm too old and fat to fight effectively anyway), and I've never had any kind of violent incident now since the late 80's. But it lies dormant in most of us, so be careful with your own enthusiasm, don't let it get the better of you.

[FuzzyForeigner]

westseattle dude.

You are the quintessential "captain obvious".

Seriously bro. Your posts are 4000 words long and all they do is either state the obvious or kill a thread.

You are talking to people on these boards as if they have never seen the light of day.

[SeattleSupporter]

http://www.crashonmyhead.com/captain_obvious.jpg

[WestSeattle]

Another stunning addition to the discussion gentlemen. You do ECS proud, as the inclusive, generous, and warm individuals that you are.

Anyway, the point that violence is in all of us, and therefore no fan is "so far removed from hooliganism" when alcohol is in the mix, is a valid one in my opinion, my apologies you think otherwise.

[SeattleSupporter]

Just trying to keep things interesting around here :D