discussion of player management while giving a yellow

[superdave]

Most CRs only talk to players they've just booked if the card is not obvious, or if it's for PI, or if he has to calm the player down.

But the CR in the ManCity-Blackburn match talked to the players on every yellow, even the ones that normally have the player backpedaling and acknowledging the card as the ref shows it.

In particular, Tugay got booked for a nonviolent but clearly tactical foul to stop a counterattack. Everyone in the stadium knew what was coming, but the CR still went over and talked to Tugay for a moment. I'd guess that 90% of refs would have just shown the card and let Tugay move on.

I thought this was a smart player management technique. The match seemed better controlled. The referee often had a quasi-smile, the players seemed to respect him.

What are your thoughts on this?

[rcleopard]

It's refreshing. Never expect the players to know the rules or why they are getting called for a booking/foul. I know that sounds silly, especially at the pro level, but I've watched where players come off the pitch scratching their heads and wondering why they got booked until they see the match report. Then it becomes much clearer to them. It's better to let them know on the field and keep them calm than anything.

The way, I generally do it is like this:

"#25 , come here." <he walks half way.. I stop way before half way and he decides whether to close or not>
"#25, that foul would have been clean except you showed spikes. I'm booking you for that, do you understand?"
<the player nods his assent or dissents. If he dissents, I don't show him a yellow for it. We're having a talk here, not playing gotchaball>
"#25, I want you to keep playing, just tone it down a little, okay? <show the yellow, backpedal, make the note>"

You'd be amazed at how much more control you'll have at a match when you treat players like adults.

[kevbrunton]

My experience watching EPL games is that the EPL referees nearly always talk to the players when issuing cards.

One benefit is that it slows down the game and gets everyone to take a breath -- hopefully preventing anger related retaliations to those hard fouls earning a caution.

I rarely do it except when I have some serious behaviour issues that I want adjusted.

[ignatz]

It also seems to me (a non-ref) that EPL CRs talk to players without issuing cards. It appears to be a verbal warning, perhaps telling them that they are in danger of a card for persistent fouling, or that a particular tackle was about as close as you can come without getting a card. It also seems to me that MLS refs don't do much of that. I wonder if that has anything to do with what seems to me to be much more dissent in MLS when cards are issued.

[rcleopard]

The MLS refs do excellent man management. The problem is that you don't see that much on TV because the general soccer viewer isn't into the management aspect so much as they seem to want to see the cards. (At least based on those I watch with at Pubs and the like)

I cannot even come close to guessing the number of times a game people wanted a yellow or a red when more likely a simple talking to would suffice.. though having been to a few Crew games I can assure you that the refs do indeed talk to the players after fouls.

Jarrod

[Keep]

Originally posted by ignatz
It also seems to me (a non-ref) that EPL CRs talk to players without issuing cards. It appears to be a verbal warning, perhaps telling them that they are in danger of a card for persistent fouling, or that a particular tackle was about as close as you can come without getting a card. It also seems to me that MLS refs don't do much of that. I wonder if that has anything to do with what seems to me to be much more dissent in MLS when cards are issued.

I almost always talk to players when I think they're edging close to a card. In fact, I think most players are coming to expect it.

In a particularly hard-fought match I reffed a month or so ago, I yellowed a player because he'd come in with his elbows up 3 times. I figure the first was his 'gimme', the second was 'he should know better', and the third got the card. When I called him over and pulled the card, he started whining--"Why am I getting carded?! You never even warned me!!" I politely let him know that he had been tackling hard all game and should know better. In retrospect, I wish I would have given him the 'lecture' earlier in the match, as about 10 minutes later he drew the 2CT send-off because he was so p!ssed he actually challenged harder. :-\

[gildarkevin]

I'm big on talking to players throughout the game, whether its a player on the verge of a card or the player on the receiving end of a hard foul. I'm completely willing to keep the lines of communication open as my view is that if you show respect to the players they'll show respect for you.

[kevbrunton]

I agree -- I talk to players a lot throughout the game whenever I can -- but generally not at the issuing of a card. The few times I have tried to do the little talk as I'm doing the booking like they do in the EPL, I have gotten a couple responses -- one was "Yeah, yeah, just give me the card and let's get on with the game.". The other couple times I just got argument. So by the time a card is needed, I just show the card and get on with it.

But talking for man management I do a lot to try to prevent the cards in the first place. The only place I don't is in the adult league that I referee which is nearly all hispanic. I don't speak Spanish and most don't understand English well, so I've decided that it's not fair to those that don't speak English for the ones that do to get warnings and such.

[Keep]

Originally posted by kevbrunton
I agree -- I talk to players a lot throughout the game whenever I can -- but generally not at the issuing of a card. The few times I have tried to do the little talk as I'm doing the booking like they do in the EPL, I have gotten a couple responses -- one was "Yeah, yeah, just give me the card and let's get on with the game.". The other couple times I just got argument. So by the time a card is needed, I just show the card and get on with it.

But talking for man management I do a lot to try to prevent the cards in the first place. The only place I don't is in the adult league that I referee which is nearly all hispanic. I don't speak Spanish and most don't understand English well, so I've decided that it's not fair to those that don't speak English for the ones that do to get warnings and such.

Hey Kev, is that adult league in Indianapolis? My wife and I run an adult league through center grove soccer in Greenwood.

[gildarkevin]

Originally posted by kevbrunton
The only place I don't is in the adult league that I referee which is nearly all hispanic. I don't speak Spanish and most don't understand English well, so I've decided that it's not fair to those that don't speak English for the ones that do to get warnings and such.

Never a better reason to learn a new language, then.

I once had a youth game involving primarily hispanic players. One of the players got fouled very hard and injured. His teammate, without any physical action, said something very mean to the player that committed the foul. I immediately issued him a yellow card, winked and, smiling, said to him in Spanish, "Sorry. You happened to catch a ref who speaks Spanish."

He had no complaints, just laughed and the game went on. We had no problems from anyone after that.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Keep
Hey Kev, is that adult league in Indianapolis? My wife and I run an adult league through center grove soccer in Greenwood.
Nope, Elkhart.

Originally posted by gildarkevin
Never a better reason to learn a new language, then.

I once had a youth game involving primarily hispanic players. One of the players got fouled very hard and injured. His teammate, without any physical action, said something very mean to the player that committed the foul. I immediately issued him a yellow card, winked and, smiling, said to him in Spanish, "Sorry. You happened to catch a ref who speaks Spanish."

He had no complaints, just laughed and the game went on. We had no problems from anyone after that.
We have a number of hispanic referees in our association and they have been teaching me individual words. I am taking time through the winter this year to try to learn enough to get by.

[TTweLLMan]

Originally posted by Keep
as about 10 minutes later he drew the 2CT send-off because he was so p!ssed he actually challenged harder. :-\
yikes. what age group?

[Keep]

Originally posted by TTweLLMan
yikes. what age group?

Adults. :-| The guy was probably early to mid 20s.