What not to do - Pittsburgh/VA Beach (A-league)

[houndguy]

This match report is a bit long, but gives you an idea of what happens when the ref loses complete control of the game and forgets the rules of the game.

I expect to here from the league because of this report.

http://www.a-league.com/game_reports/2003/pittsburgh_wilson_08222003.shtml

[billf]

What's the point of this, and why would you post it here?

I have never heard of that formula for stoppage time before, so I have no idea where you would have gotten that considering you cited the 2002 law book and no such formula exists. The amount of time added is completely up to the referee.

Setting that aside, all referees have bad matches. If Mr Toban had a rough one, he knows it and the assessor knows it. It's very difficult to take what you wrote seriously as anything other than your opinion about a match no one else here will ever see. The very nature of the referee's job is that every call has some affect on the outcome of the game, and 50% of the people involved with the match are almost certain to disagree with 100% of the decisions a referee makes.

If the best referee is one you never notice, than how come the world's most recognizable referee is also widely considered the best in the world?

[ProfZodiac]

Until I got to the box score, I was going to say bugger off, but then I saw the C/E list. 5 cautions for USB seems a bit high. Perhaps they went into the book wrong?

[nsa]

50% of the people involved with the match are almost certain to disagree with 100% of the decisions a referee makes.We really only have a 25% chance of "getting it right".

Team A sees it. Team B doesn't. You call it. You're wrong!

Team A doesn't see it. Tema B does. You call it. You're wrong!

Neither team sees it. You call it. You're wrong!

Both teams see it. You call it. Miracle of miracles. You're right!

;)

[Alberto]

Thanks for the illuminating report. I look forward to more reports. Carry on perhaps on another board. I fail to see the relevance of this thread.

[MassachusettsRef]

Originally posted by ProfZodiac
5 cautions for USB seems a bit high. Perhaps they went into the book wrong? Why would you think 5 cautions for UB is high in an A-League match?

[ProfZodiac]

Originally posted by MassachusettsRef
Why would you think 5 cautions for UB is high in an A-League match?

I truthfully haven't seen an A-League match since the Bulldogs played at Bowditch, but then there weren't more than 2 cautions a match. And just looking at MLS, with people like Dema and Hristo out there, and there aren't 5 USB's in a match.

[Pokeden]

Originally posted by nsa
[B]
Both teams see it. You call it. Miracle of miracles.;)

Then they say you called the wrong thing!
Or the wrong way!
(hahaha)

[MassachusettsRef]

Originally posted by ProfZodiac
I truthfully haven't seen an A-League match since the Bulldogs played at Bowditch, but then there weren't more than 2 cautions a match. And just looking at MLS, with people like Dema and Hristo out there, and there aren't 5 USB's in a match. I would just warn against associating some sort of caution quota with a level of competition (both as a ref and as a fan). I've had 5 cautions in a U18 State Cup match before and had an assessor tell me I probably didn't have enough, and I've had 2 in a D-1 adult match and been told I had too many. The thing to remember is that every match is different.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by nsa
We really only have a 25% chance of "getting it right".

Team A sees it. Team B doesn't. You call it. You're wrong!

Team A doesn't see it. Tema B does. You call it. You're wrong!

Neither team sees it. You call it. You're wrong!

Both teams see it. You call it. Miracle of miracles. You're right!

;)
Nope, it's only 20% --

You forgot everyone sees it and you miss it. :)

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by ProfZodiac
Until I got to the box score, I was going to say bugger off, but then I saw the C/E list. 5 cautions for USB seems a bit high. Perhaps they went into the book wrong?
Prof, you need to realize that 90% (or more) of cautions are unsporting behavior (UB).

Hard tackle -- UB
Late tackle -- UB
Studs up tackle -- UB
Jawing with an opponent -- UB
Dive -- UB
Tactical foul (shirt pull, etc.) -- UB

Of the 7 cautionable offenses, you RARELY see leaving or entering. Failure to respect the required distance and delays restart aren't all that common. That leaves persistent infringement and dissent as the only other sources of caution besides UB.

Just look at the USSF booklet on 7+7 Cautionable and Sending Off Offenses. There is a list of 13 things for which you can earn a UB caution.

[Keep]

I dunno. I'm relatively new to this board, so I hate to throw stones, but after reading that report I don't really see much that the ref did wrong, and that's from a very biased report.


I am a reporter first and foremost and a Riverhounds fan second. As such I'm sure that many will say that I have sour grapes over last night's 4 - 3 loss and that my complaint has been influenced by the Hounds organization. It has not been.

By even admitting that he's a fan first, second, or last, the 'reporter' removes all objectivity. He then goes on to spell out where that lack of objectivity comes from.

Combine that introduction with a completely one-sided argument, not to mention grammatical mechanics that are laughable for a 'professional' reporter, and I lose nearly all faith in anything he says.

[rcleopard]

I'm with you, Keep. I think this guy doesn't have a clue to what goes on out there. This definatly strikes me as "what not to do" , but not as a referee, but as a reporter. A reporter shouldn't be doing this type of article, and instead should be focusing on presenting a report of the game. This strikes me as something written by an angsty fifteen year old.

Jarrod

[houndguy]

I admit the story is one sided...and if you would read my other match reports you would see that I tend to be very fair to both teams and have defended ref's in the past.

I also have worked as a ref for several years, am in good standing with PA West and was a player for several years.

Don't assume anything unless you know me.

[ProfZodiac]

Originally posted by kevbrunton
Prof, you need to realize that 90% (or more) of cautions are unsporting behavior (UB).

Hard tackle -- UB
Late tackle -- UB
Studs up tackle -- UB
Jawing with an opponent -- UB
Dive -- UB
Tactical foul (shirt pull, etc.) -- UB

Of the 7 cautionable offenses, you RARELY see leaving or entering. Failure to respect the required distance and delays restart aren't all that common. That leaves persistent infringement and dissent as the only other sources of caution besides UB.

Just look at the USSF booklet on 7+7 Cautionable and Sending Off Offenses. There is a list of 13 things for which you can earn a UB caution.

That might be the source of my confusion. Consider the source. I seldom have to give out a caution to a 12-year old. If I do, I don't necessarily use the exact term. A dive is "Simulation." A tactical foul is a tactical foul. Late Tackle goes in as such. That would explain it.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by ProfZodiac
That might be the source of my confusion. Consider the source. I seldom have to give out a caution to a 12-year old. If I do, I don't necessarily use the exact term. A dive is "Simulation." A tactical foul is a tactical foul. Late Tackle goes in as such. That would explain it.
When you get to the point of writing reports, you'll want to learn the proper terminology / abbreviations. If you plan on moving from Grade 8 to 7 and then beyond, you should be keeping records of your games.

Right now, all you need to do is keep a log of the games worked -- date, league or event, position worked, age or division, location. Having the names of the teams and the others that worked with you lends a lot of credibility -- particularly if you are working a LOT of games and your numbers may get questioned.

When you get to the point of working full length games, you should start keeping a game report for each game you work. It's the best possible record of your games for upgrading.

[Statesman]

Originally posted by houndguy
I admit the story is one sided...and if you would read my other match reports you would see that I tend to be very fair to both teams and have defended ref's in the past.

I also have worked as a ref for several years, am in good standing with PA West and was a player for several years.

Don't assume anything unless you know me.

Referee code of Ethics (http://www.geocities.com/rasoweb/Documents/CodeEthics.PDF)

I suggest looking at points #6 and #10 specifically. Don't think USSF wouldn't strip your badge for that kind of report.

[Footer Phooter]

I didn't see the match, plus I just got certified (zero matches worked), so I can't comment on the performance of the ref. I can say this, however....



If Roy Lassiter gets an assist against you, you deserve to lose.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Statesman
Referee code of Ethics (http://www.geocities.com/rasoweb/Documents/CodeEthics.PDF)

I suggest looking at points #6 and #10 specifically. Don't think USSF wouldn't strip your badge for that kind of report.

[i]From the Administrators Handbook[i]
Code of Ethics for Referees

6. I will be loyal to my fellow officials and never knowingly promote criticism of them.

10. I will not make statements about any games except to clarily an interpretation of the Laws of
the Game.

Is there a difference between coming on here and talking about games, calls, non-calls, etc. and posting an article like the one that started this thread? I think there is. In this forum, we are using it as a tool to learn -- or at least many, if not most, are.

Sure there are some not so subtle "attacks", but for the most part, we evaluate a referee's performance to learn from it. USSF does the same thing with the videos that they release for instructional purposes.

[Bleacherbutt]

It sounds like a gag rule to me.

If the USSF responded openly to concerns and made some of the changes necessary, I would say adhere to the code of ethics. I have written to the USSF about some of the of the officiating performances I have witnessed and have not even so much as gotten a letter back acknowleding my concerns. Since USSF doesn't even acknowledge my concerns nor do they make the changes necessary to clean up and improve officiating, I can only reach one conclusion, it's just cover to shut people up. A little sunlight is a good disinfectant.