Vancouver Expansion Thread - News, articles, discussion

[canuckred]

There have been quite a few storys out about the new Vancouver Waterfront stadium in the past few days. There didn't seem like an good place to put them so I created this thread.

Soccer stadium a gift spurned

How is it that a proposed community asset, funded by a private citizen, does not receive the kind of support provided in other jurisdictions?

Tom Mayenknecht
Special to the Sun

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

The breakthrough required for the Whitecaps waterfront stadium to finally proceed will be the moment those assessing -- and otherwise holding up -- the proposed plan stop viewing it merely as a real estate development project and see it for what it is: A larger community amenity opportunity made possible through previously unheard of levels of Canadian sport philanthropy.

That moment will also coincide with the much-belated arrival of political leadership that has been largely absent from all three levels of government, especially from the city of Vancouver.

Outside of Coun. Suzanne Anton, there has been barely a pulse of advocacy from the municipal government and office of the mayor. The last true political champion of the waterfront stadium project was Senator Larry Campbell, who as mayor in 2003 invited Whitecaps FC owner Greg Kerfoot to pursue a small to midsize outdoor stadium in Vancouver.

It is unfathomable that Kerfoot's vision and commitment to build the $90-million stadium -- with his own money and without requesting construction financing from any level of government -- has been met with so little visible and sustained support from Vancouver-based politicians.

In the five years (and two FIFA World Cups) that have elapsed since Campbell showed community leadership and appreciation for what Kerfoot was prepared to do in Vancouver -- Toronto FC, owned and operated by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment -- has already played one Major League Soccer season and opened another at 20,522-seat BMO Field stadium on the shores of Lake Ontario approved and funded by the governments of Toronto, Ontario and Canada. This was accomplished in three short years.

The Montreal Impact have built 13,500-seat Saputo Stadium (a modest $25-million construction project scheduled to open next month) with land contributed by the city of Montreal adjacent to the Olympic Stadium.

The American cities of Seattle and Philadelphia have been awarded MLS franchises, with the West Coast team ready to make its debut next year (with Qwest Field already operational as the home of the Seattle Seahawks of the National Football League, built largely with government funding) and the eastern club preparing to enter the MLS by 2010 in a $115-million waterfront stadium financed as part of a private-public partnership involving the county and state.

Each of the stadium projects hosting professional soccer in Toronto, Montreal and Philadelphia began after the Whitecaps unveiled its original plans. Unlike the Kerfoot proposal, however, they each involved taxpayer money. Yet they were all championed and embraced as community assets.

How is it possible that a proposed Vancouver community asset, funded by a private citizen, does not receive the kind of moral and political support provided in other jurisdictions? The drawn-out process has already cost Vancouver the opportunity to showcase the stadium as part of its hosting of the 2010 Olympic Winter Games.

Back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and even into 2007, one would have expected the proposed waterfront stadium to be seen by all three levels of government as a natural to help make the most of the Olympic-sized opportunity in 2010.

Fortunately, the potential value added by the stadium far transcends what it could have served as a public staging facility or cultural venue for 2010. With a modicum of creativity and a commitment to effective public policy-making, the proposed stadium would directly or indirectly support other priorities, such as the federal government's Pacific Gateway strategy, the provincial government's Act Now campaign and the municipal government's drug abuse containment program in the Downtown Eastside.

Creative applications of the proposed Whitecaps waterfront stadium could be easily borrowed through analysis of the urban benefits of downtown stadium projects in Toronto (SkyDome, now known as Rogers Centre), San Francisco (Pac Bell Park), Denver (Coors Field) and Seattle (Qwest Field and Safeco Field) in converting rail lands, dilapidated industrial warehouse districts or other brownfields into high-density residential districts, park space or other social amenities and economic drivers.

Which brings us back to Kerfoot, who will become known through time as more a soccer philanthropist than a soccer owner. Any politician familiar with his track record of quietly funding myriad educational, cultural and sports projects would quickly understand that he is committed to community investment of the highest order.

Not enough people recognize Kerfoot's plan to operate his men's and women's soccer clubs as part of a not-for-profit, charitable community foundation and as part of his own multi-faceted personal investment in soccer.

Few notice that he's annually spending hundreds of thousands of additional dollars in supporting the women's national team and a new men's residency program and is planning to invest many more millions on soccer training facilities.

Let's stop treating the proposed Whitecaps stadium as yet another land swap and start approaching it as a gift of great -- and potentially even greater -- value to the community. Anything less than that will send out the wrong message to community-oriented benefactors and reduce the odds of more Greg Kerfoots stepping forward to strengthen and enhance Vancouver through their community investment and philanthropy in the years to come.


http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature04230801.aspx

[roger_cliveston]

The sad part is Vancouver will be waiting for quite some time for MLS to arrive. Montreal will be the second Canadian team....Caps?

[canuckred]

Stadium Update

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/fanzone/galleries/photos/do_not_publish/images/4835/320x225.aspx

April 24, 2008

In response to recent comments made by the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority (Port), Vancouver Whitecaps FC offer the following response regarding the club's negotiations for a waterfront land agreement with the Port.

“We were shocked by the Vancouver Port Authority’s sudden and unilateral decision to publicize the terms of confidential land exchange negotiations," said Vancouver Whitecaps FC president Bob Lenarduzzi. "The decision significantly reduces the level of professionalism surrounding these negotiations.”

The Whitecaps have been working towards a fair and reasonable land exchange agreement with the Port for over 18 months. The most recent offer from the Whitecaps was a lease or land exchange ratio of 3:1 in favour of the Port – 30,000 square meters of Whitecaps land in exchange for 10,000 square meters of Port land.

In response to statements recently made by Mr. McLaughlin on behalf of the Port, to the media, the Whitecaps offer clarification on the following points:

Port Statement: The Whitecaps offered $1 for Port land.
Whitecaps Response: This is completely inaccurate, and has been taken out of the context of the full offer. The offer includes a 3:1 lease or land exchange (30,000 square meters of Whitecaps land in exchange for 10,000 square meters of Port land). The lease offer includes a $1 annual transaction for implementation purposes.

Port Statement: There is a land valuation discrepancy of $30 - $35 million.
Whitecaps Response: The Whitecaps’ independent land valuation suggests that a 3:1 land exchange ratio is more than reasonable compensation based on market value.

Port Statement: The Whitecaps-owned land is one of three major rail yards used by The Port on the south shore, and it is absolutely essential to the long-term operation of the south shore terminals.
Whitecaps Response: The Vancouver Fraser Port Authority maintains that the tracks are essential for Port operation, but refuses to attach any financial value to them.

The Whitecaps vision for the stadium has remained constant over the past five years – a community amenity that is:
Accessible
Socially, environmentally and economically sustainable
Adjacent to the main transportation hub
A community gathering place
A home for soccer, rugby, concerts, and other community, sport, and cultural events

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature04240802.aspx

[ken0sha]

Perhaps Greg Kerfoot is making a mistake by trying to do this without taxpayer dollars.

Philadelphia, Toronto, Salt Lake City, and Montreal all have stadiums built, planned or under construction with government subsidy. What's in it for the politician if he/she can't get the photo op cutting a ribbon or have something to champion publicly and tell you how they are spending our $$$ efficiently on big buildings that get used 30 times per year and make money for people who tend to have high net worths?

Sarcasm intended here.

God forbid a philanthropist like Greg Kerfoot helps transform a under utilized area of town with a stadium.

[canuckred]

Thing seem to be rolling on the stadium front a bit... (finally)

Dome might be key to MLS nod

B.C. Place a short-term option


Jim Jamieson, The Province

Published: Wednesday, April 30, 2008
Concerned about being shut out of the dwindling prospects for a Major League Soccer expansion franchise, the Vancouver Whitecaps have opened the door a crack to the possibility of playing at a revamped B.C. Place Stadium -- on an interim basis.
Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said Tuesday the club is still 100 per cent committed to building a soccer-specific, natural grass stadium on the Vancouver waterfront, but would consider B.C. Place as a temporary venue if major renos are announced shortly as expected.
"Our priority is still the waterfront stadium, but given that it's taking as long as it has, we need to have alternatives if the opportunity to move to a higher level is available," said Lenarduzzi.



"It would be a short-term solution, as we're looking at the waterfront stadium being our permanent solution but of course we're mired in that process right now."
The Whitecaps have been fighting their way through red tape and negotiations with local and federal government since owner Greg Kerfoot purchased land on the waterfront adjacent to Gastown in 2005. Talks are moving at a glacial pace with the Port of Vancouver, regarding a land swap agreement on the fourth proposed site for the 15,000-seat stadium.
In the mean time, a major case of stadium envy has gripped Vancouver, as Toronto built 20,000-seat BMO Field on its waterfront -- and became the first Canadian MLS franchise last year -- and Montreal is about to open 13,500-seat Saputo Stadium. The Impact have formally launched their own bid for an MLS franchise, with the team owner Saputo family joining forces with Canadiens owner George Gillette.
The problem the Whitecaps find themselves in is that MLS -- North American's top professional soccer league, which has said it will cap its number of teams at 18 -- is at 14 this year and will add Seattle in 2009 and Philadelphia in 2010. In addition to the Montreal bid, St. Louis is also pursuing a franchise. If both were accepted, the 18 spots would be filled.
MLS has said that B.C. Place would be acceptable to the league in the interim, as long as assurances of a more soccer specific stadium were in place.
Seattle will play at Qwest Field, similar in size and surface (FieldTurf) to B.C. Place, but only use the 24,500-seat lower bowl.
"We just want to keep the club's options open," Lenarduzzi said.


http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sports/story.html?id=a9aa6813-3501-4ef6-836f-538660f12198

[canuckred]

A senator steps in to get a soccer stadium on track


Iain MacIntyre, Vancouver Sun

Published: Tuesday, April 29, 2008
Sen. Larry Campbell is willing to wade into Vancouver's waterfront soccer stadium standoff, which is great news on two levels.
If Campbell's political and mediation skills fail to break the bitter impasse between the Vancouver Port Authority and Vancouver Whitecaps, his background as a coroner will qualify him for the post-mortem on what would be one of the most embarrassing development collapses in the city's history.
Five years after Campbell, then Vancouver's mayor, first encouraged Kerfoot to build a downtown stadium, a shovel has yet to be sunk into the ground, although there should be a few people hit over the head with one.


For perspective, consider that in about half this time Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment proposed, built and opened BMO Field in Toronto, and is now in its second season of Major League Soccer. And it was all done with money donated by three levels of government, which means, yes, you helped pay for Toronto's stadium while the guy in Vancouver isn't getting anywhere trying to build one on his own dime.
Given conditional approval two years ago by the City of Vancouver to proceed with their 15,000-seat project on Burrard Inlet, the Whitecaps have moved their stadium location three times and are in a stalemate with the Port Authority over land negotiations.
Kerfoot owns 10.5 hectares of railyard behind Water Street, purchased for $22 million in 2005. But he needs about 1.5 hectares of waterfront owned by the Port Authority.
The Port Authority badly wants the railyard, believing it's the only way to forever guarantee rail access to their port despite a right-of-way agreement between Kerfoot and Canadian Pacific that runs in perpetuity.
So the Port has the land Kerfoot needs, Kerfoot has the land the Port wants.
No wonder the sides can't get a deal done. It makes too much sense.
Negotiations have been going on for more than a year.
Enter the senator.
"Maybe it takes someone to sit down and say: 'Okay, boys and girls, is this going to happen?' " Campbell said Monday afternoon. "I don't know if anyone would consider me an honest broker, but I've taken mediation.
"From a politician's point of view, this [project] is a win-win."
"There are lots of roadblocks to get through, but that's what life is about. Obviously, I'm concerned about [losing the stadium]. I just don't look at this as a stadium but as a huge opportunity for that area. It's a place for people to work, a place to get jobs. And so close to the convention centre. It would be a landmark, no question."
The entrenchment of the sides became obvious when Port Authority planning director Patrick McLaughlin and chief financial officer Tom Winkler met with The Vancouver Sun's editorial board earlier Monday to explain their hardline position.
McLaughlin, who angered the Whitecaps and appeared to mislead the public last week by claiming Kerfoot was offering only a dollar for the Port property, said the land Kerfoot is offering in trade -- roughly the eastern half of the railyard -- is worth $30 million less than Port's waterfront parcel to the north.



But McLaughlin also conceded that federal laws do not allow the Port to sell its land to the highest bidder, which makes dubious the valuation of its land based on unencumbered worth to developers. The Port Authority is permitted to swap land, but it flatly rejects what Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi says is an offer of three square metres for each metre of Port property.
"The rail lands are essential to us," McLaughlin said. "Before we even get to the matter of value, if we can't get resolution on the rail lands, the price is irrelevant. If we wind up being able to control half the railyard, we may as well as get rid of the whole thing."
"To me, it's an illogical argument that they're making," Lenarduzzi countered afterward. "The railyard is not going anywhere. But if it meant that much to them before, why didn't they buy it? There's an easement [for rail use] that will be there forever. Nothing is going to happen to that railyard. Nothing is going to happen to those tracks."


Kerfoot wants to build on platforms above the tracks. The project will almost certainly include retail and residential development as well as his stadium, and Port officials acknowledge that if Kerfoot doesn't develop the rail lands, someone else will.
So this isn't an issue of preserving the land as it is. Maybe there will be a soccer stadium and three residential towers. Or maybe there will be six residential towers and no stadium. Either way, stuff is going to be built. Eventually.
The Port has no objections to Kerfoot building above the tracks, as long as they own them. Kerfoot, however, won't give up ownership of the more desirable west end of the train yard.
"We just feel what we've offered is fair ... by offering them three-to-one, 30,000 square metres to 10,000," Lenarduzzi said. "How can they attribute that value to [their land]? That's the kind of frustrating thing that's difficult to negotiate."
The pricetag for the taxpayer-subsidized trade and convention centre, a few hundred metres west of the stadium site, is pushing a billion dollars. A new roof for BC Place Stadium, sprinkled in magic dust by the 2010 Olympics, will be rushed through at a cost to us of $100 to $200 million.
Is it not in the public's interest to have a privately funded outdoor stadium that, unlike the convention centre, people in Metro Vancouver will actually be able to use and enjoy?
"We're not in the public-interest business," McLaughlin said. "We're in the business of providing service to Canadian trade, not providing stadiums. We're not the least bit interested in stadiums."
Winkler added: "Personally, I think we're doing some goodwill for the City of Vancouver just by considering this."
Please hurry Mr. Campbell or the next site for Kerfoot's stadium will be in Portland.
"I'm going to talk to Bob and I know the Port people," Campbell said. "It would be a shame if we can't come to some sort of deal. I don't believe in roadblocks. Either you look at them and find a way of addressing them, or you say 'I'm outta here.' "
That's the worry, and ever-increasing likelihood.




http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=a278cc78-2d8e-48df-93e3-1a3946518800&k=4133&p=2

[ken0sha]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=a278cc78-2d8e-48df-93e3-1a3946518800&k=4133&p=2

Thanks for posting. Good article. All the more frustrating because it appears that there is a solution in the cards.

[Johnnie Monster]

Several news outlets here are reporting that the provincial government will announce major renovation plans for BC Place stadium tomorrow, including a retractable roof which will be finished by 2011.

The Vancouver Whitecaps are apparently participating in the government's press conference, fuelling recent speculation that the Caps are moving from Swangard to BC Place.

The question now is whether Caps intend to settle at BC Place permanently, or if it will just be a temporary home until their own SSS land issues can be resolved.

There have been some very recent indications in the past week from the political backrooms that if the Caps can't come to an agreement with the Port Authority for the proposed waterfront stadium site(s), the city will make land available to the Caps near Main & Terminal (which is a short distance from the downtown core and our other sports centres, BC Place and GM Place).

At any rate, it makes no financial sense at all for the Caps to move from Swangard to BC Place unless they've been promised MLS. This is a 60,000 seat venue, after all. Rent there does not come cheap.

Rivals Seattle and Toronto are in already, and Montreal also seems likely....

Could Garber be on the next plane to the west coast?

[tab5g]

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20080516&content_id=158409&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp

-------------
05/16/2008 01:05AM
Commissioner's Vancouver statement
Garber comments on stadium renovation announcement
Major League Soccer Communications


Following today's announcement in Vancouver that BC Place will undergo renovations, Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber issued the following statement:

"We believe Vancouver is a potential market for a future Major League Soccer expansion team. There is no doubt the market for professional soccer exists in Vancouver, as we saw last November when nearly 50,000 fans attended the exhibition match between the Los Angeles Galaxy and the Whitecaps.

"We understand the newly renovated BC Place Stadium will be a world-class facility. We look forward to learning more about the proposed renovations so that we may determine whether BC Place can serve as an interim venue for an MLS team pending the construction of a soccer-specific stadium.

"MLS will have 16 teams by 2010 with the addition of Seattle next year and Philadelphia the following season. We are currently in discussions with potential expansion team owners and local governments in many markets across North America regarding the 17th and 18th teams.

We look forward to continuing our discussions with the Whitecaps regarding the opportunity to award a Major League Soccer expansion team to Vancouver in the future."
---------------------------

[GOALSeattle]

There you have it:
http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature05160801.aspx

VANCOUVER, BC - Vancouver Whitecaps FC announced today their intention to pursue a lease agreement in a renovated BC Place Stadium, which is scheduled to open in early 2011. The move would afford the Whitecaps the opportunity to continue to host major soccer matches and also enter the race for one of the last Major League Soccer (MLS) franchises, whilst continuing to pursue the construction of the proposed soccer-specific Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium on downtown Vancouver’s central waterfront and rail lands.

The Whitecaps have been pursuing plans to build a 15,000 - 20,000-seat waterfront stadium in downtown Vancouver since 2003. In December 2007, the club released a four-year strategic plan, Vision 2011, which identified several opportunities contingent upon the completion of the proposed stadium, or the availability of another suitable facility.

“The decision to pursue a lease in a refurbished BC Place is a necessary adjustment to course,” said Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi. “It is a result of the long negotiation and approval timeline for our proposed waterfront stadium, combined with the shortening window of opportunity to secure an MLS expansion franchise.”

[Sport Billy]

In the big picture, I don't think it means much.

I would still think it keeps them behind St. Louis and Montreal and slightly behind or even with NY2.

I guess it's better than nothing for Vancouver fans.

On a side note, MLS never learns, you cannot award teams on the PROMISE of a SSS.

I think there's room for Vancouver, but I see them being team 19-22. Preferably with a SSS and not a temporary venue. Though it is nicer than most temporary venues.

[GOALSeattle]

In the big picture, I don't think it means much.

I would still think it keeps them behind St. Louis and Montreal and slightly behind or even with NY2.

I guess it's better than nothing for Vancouver fans.

On a side note, MLS never learns, you cannot award teams on the PROMISE of a SSS.

I think there's room for Vancouver, but I see them being team 19-22. Preferably with a SSS and not a temporary venue. Though it is nicer than most temporary venues.



Both the league and the Whitecaps are positioning themselves to be Toronto FC's Canadian 'counterbalance' out west, and Kerfoot has far more money than anyone involved with St. Louis.

[SounderMan]

Oh the howling out of St. Louis if this happens before Cooper gets his shit together. BC place is another stadium option that could handle crowds bigger than the 20,000 that most teams are setting their sights on. Let's see........ Billions of dollars, large renovated stadium, West Coast Canadian location, built in rivalry with Seattle and San Jose that dates back to 1974...... hmm.

[studzup]

And when you think about it, what has St. Louis ever done for American soccer?

Oh, that's right. This is no longer about American soccer.

Sorry.

My bad.

[hipityhop]

St Louis can be there, if they get a stadium and deep pockets for the owner. Otherwise, St Louis can shut up, if Montreal, Vancouver and Portland step up first with the stadiums and the cash.... MLS would be foolish not to take them.

Forget that notion of a second NYC team for at least 10 years..... that's pie in the sky with no owners or stadium possible...

[NF-FC]

realistically, anyone who actually believes that the league will be capped at 18 teams is insane. Right now we have big contenders in Montreal, Vancouver, St.Louis, New York City, Portland, and Miami. We're not talking about Rochester or San antonio anymore. Garber will not turn away all of these Big time cities, he's just playing them off each other to get a bigger expansion fee. I'm not saying get them all in now, but steady expansion into these markets is a must.

[bright]

realistically, anyone who actually believes that the league will be capped at 18 teams is insane. Right now we have big contenders in Montreal, Vancouver, St.Louis, New York City, Portland, and Miami. We're not talking about Rochester or San antonio anymore. Garber will not turn away all of these Big time cities, he's just playing them off each other to get a bigger expansion fee. I'm not saying get them all in now, but steady expansion into these markets is a must.

Except Portland is a lot like Rochester. They play in a baseball stadium, and the Timbers only really came into existence to sweeten the deal with the city for the Beavers to get renovations in 2001 to PGE Park, said baseball stadium. Also, ownership is saddled with the baseball team due to the deal with the city for those very renovations. And now the ownership is asking the city for additional money for relatively inexpensive renovations (relative to what most MLS owners are able to afford on their own). While the Timbers have a fan group that is good at promoting itself, the team doesn't enjoy the same level of attendance that Rochester did in the days when people were calling for them to go up. And the organization as a whole is cash-poor. They traditionally have one of the cheapest payrolls in the USL. If St. Louis, a true soccer city, can't get into MLS with a stadium deal already approved by a local community, how can Portland get in? They still have a lot of work to do to be considered even ahead of Rochester, who actually has a stadium and now an owner with some cash. The Rhinos are even able to afford to field a women's team. And I don't think Rochester is really viable for MLS relative to the other candidates out there. Just trying to point out that right now Portland is in the same boat, or even worse.

- Paul

[the shelts]

Take this for what it is worth............I am simply an anonymous poster on big soccer but

I know for a fact. A FACT. That Vancouver was told last June that if they got a stadium ( a real stadium ) then they are in MLS if they want to join. After that Garber flew out for a visit with his wife and two others from MLS.

Don Garber, the billionaire, Lenarduzzi and a number of others (wives, some politician, flunkies, friends etc) all had dinner at the Earls on Robson St in Vancouver. It was or about August 12, 2007. Garber flew in, met some locals, did a tour, went to a couple of meetings in the Pan Pacific and told them that all Vancouver needed was 2 things.

1/ check to cover expansion fees
2/ stadium not named Swangard

There was a representative from Sportsnet Pacific and BCTV who both agreed that tv rights were a lock. You will notice that some bigger announcements about the residency program and the PDL happened around this time.

I also know that Seattle and Portland were mentioned in the meeting. Originally the idea that all 3 hit the league together was something that would be a "good to have" but was unworkable.

[PopsKrock]

Take this for what it is worth............I am simply an anonymous poster on big soccer but

I know for a fact. A FACT. That Vancouver was told last June that if they got a stadium ( a real stadium ) then they are in MLS if they want to join. After that Garber flew out for a visit with his wife and two others from MLS.


MLS said almost the same thing to St. Louis the day of the stadium vote. So...

[SounderMan]

MLS said almost the same thing to St. Louis the day of the stadium vote. So...

The Difference................ Kerfoot's cash situation and BC Place is already built.