Very Small Rocks - Season Thread

[Ilovecolombia redded]

the two leagues could count as a latter system as the teams go down they jump down to the second league if they come up they jump up into the first league they fight relegation of course...

;)

[johno]

I'm thinking 2 seperate drafts... 1 the talent pool would be too diluted, 2 with more managers the risk of having those who dont stick it out the entire season and fail to remain active is higher and that only makes the talent problem harder, 3, less people are likely to stick to it with the low level of talent which makes 1 and 2 worse, and also the mother of all reasons... 16 teams would take forever to draft... i mean it... no less than say 3 weeks for the draft imo... really the more teams the worse it gets... if u break it down to 8 teams each, people will get used to a schedule or wont get disinterested and not check to see if its their turn as the wait wont be as long... also, they can get used to the length a round takes and thus streamline the draft...

[ibreak4coffee]

I'm thinking 2 seperate drafts... 1 the talent pool would be too diluted, 2 with more managers the risk of having those who dont stick it out the entire season and fail to remain active is higher and that only makes the talent problem harder, 3, less people are likely to stick to it with the low level of talent which makes 1 and 2 worse, and also the mother of all reasons... 16 teams would take forever to draft... i mean it... no less than say 3 weeks for the draft imo... really the more teams the worse it gets... if u break it down to 8 teams each, people will get used to a schedule or wont get disinterested and not check to see if its their turn as the wait wont be as long... also, they can get used to the length a round takes and thus streamline the draft...

I agree that a 16 manager draft would be a long process that could result in missed picks and disinterest. However, let me play the devil's advocate on the question of team selection by saying that I'm not so sure that the talent pool would be that diluted. There are by my account over 100 quality international players in the premiership, and besides with the budget limit of 100 everyone wont be able to pick ten all star players anyways (maybe only 5 or 6, and there are easily 80 top class players). I participated in a hockey draft last year with 15 managers and it was long, but the league ended up being ultra competitive.

On the other hand I concede that there may be one ultimate argument for two drafts: goalkeepers. With only 20 teams in the premiership, those drafting last will be stuck with keepers from bottom of the table level teams, or the back-ups on the top flight teams.

In the end, like most things in life, I think there are valid arguments for both options. A 16 manager draft would be very interesting (but we're only at 13 now, right?) and require great skill in picking a squad. However a division one and division two with relegations and promotions is perhaps even more interesting and would probably mean more active managers during the year.

I realize this post does not solve anything, but I wanted to throw some arguments out there.

[DoctorJones24]

A single table of 16 is not an option. That's 240 roster spots, when there are only 220 starting spots in the EPL. And given squad rotations, we'd each have 5-6 mostly bench players on our teams. Not fun.

A twelve man league is pushing it on the large end, IMO. Eight was good last year. Ten is probably ideal. But if we end up with twelve, it will be an interesting challenge.

[kopiteinkc]

I am leaving now until Thursday night and will try to check in between now and then if I can. It seems unlikely i will be able to get online, but you never know.

I still plan to start the draft next Friday morning. My vote is for two leagues of eight in two separate drafts and then all 16 teams can play in cup contests.

I will leave all the decisions between now and then to Hal :D

[DoctorJones24]

One thing I noticed is that Clanblue and Ingromius haven't signed up their teams yet. Ingram has already said he's in, however, and I'd think we should hold Clanblue's spot for a bit longer--they've both been solid league members for 2 years now.

The problem is that the league is already at 8 teams.

Do we relegate the bottom 2 from last year into the new 2nd Division (Who was that, anyway?)?
Ask the two new managers to move to the 2nd Div?

Obviously this point is moot if we go with a single 12 team table. But then, we've already got 13 names, without Clanblue. Do we give the last two newbies the boot?

[tomvandamn]

hey can anyone post the league code
i searched through the posts

can someone pm me thanks


TVDPhenomenons



and about the draft order what about predicting wednesday champions league qualifiers and the person with the most points gets 1st pick and so forth thanks

[Hal]

1. Me
2. 1800 World Cup
3. Hal
4. Tobacco Roma - confirmed but needs a proxy!
5. Darr
6. MtKillamanjohno
7. DutchFootballruleZ
8. Ilovecolombia
9. Helghallen
10. Tom Van Damn
11. I break 4 coffee
12. Doctor Jones
13. Ingromius -- Jon Ingram

Thought I'd arrange this listing in order based on previous experience in competing against each other and demonstrated commitment to staying active throughout the season. See the prior participation as listed following this ordering.

1. Hal
2. 1800-WorldCup (Michel)
3. Kopiteinkc (Mark)
4. Ingromius (Jay has Jon's draft proxy)
5. DoctorJones24 (Jay)
6. Darr (Jason)
7. MtKillamanjohno (John)
8: In order of seniority if they announce their participation:
a. Clanblue (Paul)
b. Captain Splarg (Brian)
c. Buffalo Soldier (Aris)(NY United) (Was a Chelski manager; forget which team)
d. JG_Revs (Justin)
e. subbuteo (Hal has Andrew's draft proxy)

So far, only subbuteo has signed up of the 5 managers elligible for spot #8.

Prospective 2nd Division Managers if we go with two 8-team divisions:
If we go with a 10 team division, currently, #9 and #10 would be in the first division, pending others from 8 a-e announcing their presence. I wish I knew the managers' names of the Chelski Division as they would also have higher priority as returnees. As soon as we get 16 teams, we'll create a second division. We may have Mark be division administrator for both, so the second would have 9 teams, but Mark's would be inactive. Or, one of the second division managers could take on the division adminstrator for the second division.

9. DutchFootballruleZ
10. Ilovecolombia
11. Helghallen
12. Tom Van Damn
13. I break 4 coffee
14.
15.
16.

If we come up with 20 managers that commit to stay active the entire season, then we can have two 10 team divisions.


The following are some of the draft leagues that some of the managers have participated in and competed against each other over the last 2-3 years.

CYKI Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order:

1. Ingromius
2. Kopiteinkc
3. Hal
4. 1800-WorldCup
5. ClanBlue
6. DoctorJones24
7. Captain Splarg
8. Outback Maverick

2002/2003 Fantasy Premierleague Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order, Very Small Rocks Division:

1. MtKillamanjohno
2. 1800-WorldCup
3. Darr (Nocturnal United)
4. Ingromius
5. DoctorJones24
6. ClanBlue
7. Captain Splarg
8. JG-Revs
9. Hal
10.Kopiteinkc

2002/2003 Fantasy Premierleague Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order, Chelski Division, don't have these managers' BigSoccer Nickname:

1 Toffees X1
2 Shoe Suede Blues
3 CFC KGB connection
4 Dynamo Daylight
5 Chelsea Munich
6 beantown blues
7 Thornhurst Blues (Clanblue)
8 The White Horse Crew
9 Eager Street Blues
10 Boston Blur

2004 MFLS Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order:

1. DoctorJones24 (Jay)
2. subbuteo (Andrew)
3. Darr (Jason)
4. kopiteinkc (Mark)
5. Hal (Hal)
6. JG-Revs (Justin)

Here are the types of tournaments we hold:

1st half of season and 2nd half of season FA Cup - Home and Away knockout competition.

1st half of season and 2nd half of season League Cup - Group Round Robin home and away phase followed by home and away knockout phase for top 2 teams in each group.

Interdivision competitions. Even though some teams would have the same players, it is still fair because all the teams were drafted and 'improved' post-draft through the use of the free agent player pool. We have both round-robin group phases and knockouts.

Then, there is also the competition to finish atop the division table. Those managers, like me, who make lots of trades to build up team value early in the season and to optimize my team for each week's competition, concede the top of the table to managers who are not as active in the transfer market and don't give up those transfer points.

While Mark is away, PM me (Hal) if you have any questions. There is still time to get 3-7 more players willing to commit to stay active before we start our drafts on Friday.

[ibreak4coffee]

Thought I'd arrange this listing in order based on previous experience in competing against each other and demonstrated commitment to staying active throughout the season. See the prior participation as listed following this ordering.

1. Hal
2. 1800-WorldCup (Michel)
3. Kopiteinkc (Mark)
4. Ingromius (Jay has Jon's draft proxy)
5. DoctorJones24 (Jay)
6. Darr (Jason)
7. MtKillamanjohno (John)
8: In order of seniority if they announce their participation:
a. Clanblue (Paul)
b. Captain Splarg (Brian)
c. Buffalo Soldier (Aris)(NY United) (Was a Chelski manager; forget which team)
d. JG_Revs (Justin)
e. subbuteo (Hal has Andrew's draft proxy)

So far, only subbuteo has signed up of the 5 managers elligible for spot #8.

Prospective 2nd Division Managers if we go with two 8-team divisions:
If we go with a 10 team division, currently, #9 and #10 would be in the first division, pending others from 8 a-e announcing their presence. I wish I knew the managers' names of the Chelski Division as they would also have higher priority as returnees. As soon as we get 16 teams, we'll create a second division. We may have Mark be division administrator for both, so the second would have 9 teams, but Mark's would be inactive. Or, one of the second division managers could take on the division adminstrator for the second division.

9. DutchFootballruleZ
10. Ilovecolombia
11. Helghallen
12. Tom Van Damn
13. I break 4 coffee
14.
15.
16.

If we come up with 20 managers that commit to stay active the entire season, then we can have two 10 team divisions.


The following are some of the draft leagues that some of the managers have participated in and competed against each other over the last 2-3 years.

CYKI Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order:

1. Ingromius
2. Kopiteinkc
3. Hal
4. 1800-WorldCup
5. ClanBlue
6. DoctorJones24
7. Captain Splarg
8. Outback Maverick

2002/2003 Fantasy Premierleague Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order, Very Small Rocks Division:

1. MtKillamanjohno
2. 1800-WorldCup
3. Darr (Nocturnal United)
4. Ingromius
5. DoctorJones24
6. ClanBlue
7. Captain Splarg
8. JG-Revs
9. Hal
10.Kopiteinkc

2002/2003 Fantasy Premierleague Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order, Chelski Division, don't have these managers' BigSoccer Nickname:

1 Toffees X1
2 Shoe Suede Blues
3 CFC KGB connection
4 Dynamo Daylight
5 Chelsea Munich
6 beantown blues
7 Thornhurst Blues (Clanblue)
8 The White Horse Crew
9 Eager Street Blues
10 Boston Blur

2004 MFLS Draft League and Round 1 Draft Order:

1. DoctorJones24 (Jay)
2. subbuteo (Andrew)
3. Darr (Jason)
4. kopiteinkc (Mark)
5. Hal (Hal)
6. JG-Revs (Justin)

Here are the types of tournaments we hold:

1st half of season and 2nd half of season FA Cup - Home and Away knockout competition.

1st half of season and 2nd half of season League Cup - Group Round Robin home and away phase followed by home and away knockout phase for top 2 teams in each group.

Interdivision competitions. Even though some teams would have the same players, it is still fair because all the teams were drafted and 'improved' post-draft through the use of the free agent player pool. We have both round-robin group phases and knockouts.

Then, there is also the competition to finish atop the division table. Those managers, like me, who make lots of trades to build up team value early in the season and to optimize my team for each week's competition, concede the top of the table to managers who are not as active in the transfer market and don't give up those transfer points.

While Mark is away, PM me (Hal) if you have any questions. There is still time to get 3-7 more players willing to commit to stay active before we start our drafts on Friday.



If you require an administrator for the second division, I would be glad to take on the responsibility if it comes to that.

[Ilovecolombia redded]

why am I in the second division god knows i signed up in 8th place...

[kopiteinkc]

Checking in via Kinko's :D

JG Revs emailed me -- he is in!

[JG_Revs]

Checking in via Kinko's :D

JG Revs emailed me -- he is in!
Yeah, sign me up.

I dig this 1st/2nd division thing, also. Could be a banner year.

[tomvandamn]

can someone pm me what league i am in and the league code thanks

[ibreak4coffee]

Am I right that this is where we currently stand, based on today's confirmation, two managers short of the goal of two 8 team divisions, with three names from last year yet to confirm?

Division 1

1. Hal
2. 1800-WorldCup (Michel)
3. Kopiteinkc (Mark)
4. Ingromius (Jay has Jon's draft proxy)
5. DoctorJones24 (Jay)
6. Darr (Jason)
7. MtKillamanjohno (John)
8. JG_Revs (Justin)

Division 2

9. Subbuteo (Hal has Andrew's draft proxy)
10. DutchFootballruleZ
11. Ilovecolombia
12. Helghallen
13. Tom Van Damn
14. Ibreak4coffee
15.
16.

Waiting for answers from:

a. Clanblue (Paul)
b. Captain Splarg (Brian)
c. Buffalo Soldier (Aris)(NY United) (Was a Chelski manager; forget which team)

[kopiteinkc]

Bufflo Soldier declined this season in an earlier post in this thread. I have to say Splarg was more than a little unreliable last time. (Maybe that was just me :D)

I have tried every possible way to get hold of Paul (ClanBlue) and I expect him to respond eventually, whether he's interested or not I don't know.

Does everyone agree that the time limit of 8 hours for your pick is reasonable (to allow for time difference)? Too long or too short? Once you miss a pick you get two next times it comes back to you.

Thoughts? -- Hey, what am I doing online!? ;)

[Hal]

Bufflo Soldier declined this season in an earlier post in this thread. I have to say Splarg was more than a little unreliable last time. (Maybe that was just me :D)

I have tried every possible way to get hold of Paul (ClanBlue) and I expect him to respond eventually, whether he's interested or not I don't know.

Does everyone agree that the time limit of 8 hours for your pick is reasonable (to allow for time difference)? Too long or too short? Once you miss a pick you get two next times it comes back to you.

Thoughts? -- Hey, what am I doing online!? ;)

8 hours per pick is too long. Ideally, if everyone is online we take 5-10 min per pick and knock off several rounds of the draft in one session. Going by experience, we had little draft activity from Midnight EST until about 4 PM EST. I would expect we can get the draft done over a 48 hour period, maybe 72. Proxies are the solution to getting this draft done in a reasonable time.

One year I had Michel's european number which I would call, let ring twice, then hang up when it was his turn to pick. (We had a 6-hour difference between east coast and europe and a 3 hour difference between east coast and west coast. He'd get up and make his selection. The following year we took advantage of proxies and whenever anyone left the live draft, they sent their preferences for their next 2-3 picks to their proxy agent so the draft kept going. The preferences had to include several players, listed in preferred order, in case some were selected by the managers making picks before and after their selection.

Hal

[Hal]

why am I in the second division god knows i signed up in 8th place...

You are in the second division because I felt it was appropriate to reward the loyalty of returning managers who have a proven track record of staying active for the entire season.

Actually, the two divisions will be managed the same, have the same competitioins, follow the same draft rules and rules for changing the roster during the season. There will even be some interdivision competition.

Whether we have two 8-team or two 10-team divisions is a function of getting managers committed to staying active the entire season.

As several of us have been 'core' managers who have competed against each other and have some rivalries built up, I put those managers, in accordance with the earned seniority in the first of the 2 divisions.

At the end of this season, I would think we would offer the top division slots the following year to the top 4 returning managers from each division. Or we could do a promotion/relegation. Since no one has committed to multiple years together, we tend to sort out next season based on the expressed interest of the returnees and seek out new blood to fill out the field.

[Ilovecolombia redded]

well im not gonna feel interested if im stuck in relegation league all season...

[kopiteinkc]

well im not gonna feel interested if im stuck in relegation league all season...

I don't see it as a relegation league, more as two parallel equal leagues that compete against each other.

But if you seriously feel that way let us know and we'll find a replacement.

Hal, we can certainly shorten my suggested draft time limit. As long as everyone realizes that from the beginning we expect to roll fast with this thing.

Is one hour for a pick too short?

[Hal]

I don't see it as a relegation league, more as two parallel equal leagues that compete against each other.

But if you seriously feel that way let us know and we'll find a replacement.

Hal, we can certainly shorten my suggested draft time limit. As long as everyone realizes that from the beginning we expect to roll fast with this thing.

Is one hour for a pick too short?

No. Not too short, but too long.

First and second round picks, through the use of proxies, should be given no more than 15 min. per pick. If you start the draft about 3-4 PM EST on Friday, you should be able to complete over half the draft that night, by going until 10, 11 PM or Midnight EST. Michel, aka 1800-WorldCup, and Jon, aka Ingromius, have worked with us in the past to keep the draft going, as those hours are hardest on them. The real problem is getting most of the managers to either stay plugged in or be alertable when it is their turn again.

Jay, Mark, and I can call each other. Some, not me, have instant messengers. I set up my BigSoccer account to email me for new PM's. That way, if I'm at work, I get alerted via PM that I'm up. Usually, when a person makes his pick, he also goes to BigSoccer and PM's whoever is next up as well as posting his pick in the official thread at FantasyPremierLeague. At least once per round, I'll post the cumulative draft of all the teams in BigSoccer.

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to keep the draft coordinator, this year it's Mark, at least for the Small Rocks Division, informed how to reach you, as well as sending emails and PM's with proxy pick instructions if you have to go offline for a while, i.e. like driving home, picking up someone, going to the store, etc. Sometime about 11-midnight, when the online managers are out of proxy picks and most managers want to call it for the night, then they set a time to reconvene the draft. We've tried Saturday during the day which is better for the European based managers, but have not been too successful. Hope it works better this year. As I said, based on our experience, the best times for the draft seem to be between 3 PM and 11 PM EST.

If I'm picking Andrew's team (subbuteo's), I may become the draft coordinator for the second division we form because of my prior experience pulling this draft together. At a minimum, I'd be available for consultation.



1. The point of my previous post is that these two divisions are equal. I just grouped the managers together who have played against each other for 3 seasons out of loyalty. Plus, we all are confident that this group will stay active the entire year.

2. None of us want to go through a draft and then be in a division where some managers go inactive. I certainly expect that anyone who signs up for this draft version of this game, for either division, understands he/she is commiting to stay active throughout the season. It's up to the managers of the other division to demonstrate their persistence to their fellow managers.

3. That said, Next season, if all 16 managers returned, then we'd have a promotion relation situation where division one has the better performing managers from the last season. 4 of the core managers from the Small Rocks Division would be relegated to the other division and the division names would reflect a first and second division. This year they are equal.

4. We will share all the how to deal with various aspects of the draft league from our prior experience, and how we run the various compeitions. Both Michel and Mark have previously created websites to link to the tourneys we set up and the standings.

5. We welcome other managers, as long as they are committed for an entire season. We also welcome new suggestions. We've had plenty ourselves, some which worked out and some which didn't.