Mexico vs. Peru Altercation

[Alberto]

Well it had to finally happen in the States and it did tonight. If anyone saw tonight's match, a huge fight broke out prompted by a Mexican player elbowing a Peruvian player at the base of the neck on a high ball. Both players jawed off chin to chin and then a whole lot of pushing and punching happened with other players, including both benches clearing.

Furthermore, when several of the players (2) from each team were sent off, went to the locker rooms both teams exited the technical area to the lockers as well. It was not immediately known if Hall ordered them in to chill or if they were following their own players for protection.

As an aside, after Mexico fell behind 2-0 on a questionable non-call for offside, bottles and cups started raining down on the field. During the players altercation there were fights reported in the stands by Telemundo's announcers.

It took 4-5 minutes to settle and restart the match. Brian Hall added perhaps 40 seconds of stoppage time. Andres Cantor made a big issue out of it. He felt along with the sideline reporter that Hall had lost control of the match and that it was inexcusable for the stoppage time not to be added to the match. Personally given the nonsense that went on along with the crowd behavior I might have been tempted to blow the whistle at 45 minutes. Also, I felt Hall did a good job on the issuance of cards and match mangement. He might have been a bit more forceful and stern in his reprimands, but it's not in his nature. In the end, it was the players by their actions that created this circus and not the referee.

Anyone see the match? Your thoughts on Hall and the officiating crews performance?

[JerzyRebel]

Hall didn't lose control. The Mexican players did. And what was up with the one Mexican player running in and throwing some shots before running away like a little bitch?

As for Andres Cantor, he is an overblown Mexican shill who might as well be on the FMF payroll if he isn't already.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by JerzyRebel
Hall didn't lose control. The Mexican players did. And what was up with the one Mexican player running in and throwing some shots before running away like a little bitch?

As for Andres Cantor, he is an overblown Mexican shill who might as well be on the FMF payroll if he isn't already.

I agree about Cantor and the deceased Norberto Longo. An Argentinian and an Uruguayan that bled Green, Red and White.

Were you at the match. If so when did it turn ugly in the stands. I gather the second goal by Peru was hotly disputed. It certainly looked offside.

[cachundo]

Cantor was yapping about how there should have been at least 5 minutes added on, yadiyadiya..... Lavolpe was upset that Brian Hall didn't add time.

I'm not sure how Hall could have managed the original altercation differently. Things turned ugly quite fast. Hall had to book those three for violent conduct, & I think another Mexican should have been sent off. Hall issued several more cautions the rest of the game.

Slightly off-topic from the referee thread, but I have to say I was disappointed with the fans' reactions - throwing stuff at the players & anyone else in the TA. I'm not sure if the crew ordered the teams to chill in the locker rooms. But even as the teams were heading towards the tunnel, the barrage of cups, ice, etc., kept on coming.

You can be sure FIFA will sanction both teams.

This ugliness reminded me of that Germany-Cameroon WC match officiated by Nieto. The players started to get nasty, play turned dirty, Nieto issued cautions left & right, sent off a couple, yet both sides still continued to hack at each other. Hall didn't issue as many cautions that Nieto did (16???) but you get the picture. Really begs the question - what more could Hall & the crew have done to control the rest of the game?

All I know is Brian Hall won't be popular with the large Mexican community back home in Gilroy. ;)

[lond2345]

doh i missed it! better watch the highlight shows now! (thanks for reminding us)

[Merengue]

Brian Hall did surprisingly well in the World Cup last summer but that appears like an anomaly. He just doesn't have the personality to control a game like Mexico vs Peru, two teams which are typically prone to push the limits of the laws of the game. A ref with a stronger will would have been able to take control of that match early on but Hall went card happy early on and both teams, but especially Mexico lost any respect they may have had for him.

Unless they did something which wasn't shown on camera I don't think any of the Peruvians should have been sent off. I never saw Pizarro hit anyone. he was hit in the back of his head by Briseño of Mexico, who was rightly sent off, and he tried chasing him down but was restrained by his teammates. Perhaps Pizarro did something which wasn't shown on camera othrwise he was unjustly sent off by Hall who was in full panic mode at the time.

Similarly the guy with the condom on his head for Peru (j/k) Galliquio was trying to break up the alteraction between Borgetti and another Peruvian. He should not have been sent off. Borgetti, however, was correctly sent off for his elbow to the Peruvian.

Interesting how two Mexican matches in two days (yesterday's U-17 team and tonight's senior team) had players sent off for cold cocking opposition players. Mexico is quickly earning an international reputation for chippiness.

Andres Cantor is full of crap. Apart from being full of himself, he's such a biased pro-Mexico announcer now it's not even remotely interesting to listen to him anymore. By the way, the 2nd Peruvian goal was legit as a player in the center of the penalty area was late in executing the offside trap and kept Zegarra , the goalscorer, on side.

Finally what could Hall have doen differently? Less cards early in the match and more decisiveness in his calls.

[DJPoopypants]

Well, I'm not a ref but did stay blah bah blah...

Athough I was a surprised that both teams ran off the field, I was even more surprised that they returned so quickly. I had assumed that the match officials would have used the crowd trouble to have a good 10-15 minute delay in the locker rooms - hopefully tempers would have cooled, and a stern private lecture could be given to both teams about what was gonna happen the rest of the match (including an immediate yellow to the first dumb foul that even slightly looked like retaliation). Or even telling the coaches to immediately sub any remaining troublemakers/hotheads - otherwise more red was coming.

Why such a rush to return to the field? let the grounds-crew pick the bottles up at least.

His performance after the brawl was kinda poor - he let dumb cheap fouls go w/o more than a whistle. It seemed he was just happy to not be bleeding, and didn't care too much what the ticked off players did to each other.

Knowing who deserved the red cards was obviously tough without instant replay. Since it was a friendly it was probably a good idea to be generous but even with the red cards, and let CONCACAF/FIFA work out the proper consequences. If important enough, a red can be overturned on mistaken identity - or extra punishment can be doled out as appropriate

[BorrachoNJ]

how much international experience does hall have, anyway?

[MassachusettsRef]

Originally posted by BorrachoNJ
how much international experience does hall have, anyway? Quite a bit. Not only has he worked the major international tournaments, but since many international friendlies that don't involve the USMNT occur on US soil, he's had an opportunity to work those as well (something that has helped USSF officials at the FIFA level).

Anyway, since 1998 he's worked:

World Cup 02
Confed Cup 01
numerous WCQ for 02 and 98 (most within CONCACAF, but I believe a few outside as well, which is unusual)
CONCACAF Champion's Cup matches for several years

And, from 1998-2003 (the info before 1998 is unvailable), on American soil, he's worked the following men's matches (national teams only, there are also about 20 matches involving international club teams against other clubs or against national teams and almost all involved Latin American sides):

2/24/98 Netherlands v. Mexico
5/23/98 Scotland v. Colombia
10/14/98 Brazil v. Ecuador
2/9/99 Colombia v. Germany
3/13/99 Bolivia v. Guatemala
1/9/00 Guatemala v. Armenia
5/27/00 Colombia v. Jamaica
6/7/00 Mexico v. South Africa
1/31/01 Colombia v. Mexico
7/2/03 Peru v. Guatemala
7/6/03 Mexico v. El Salvador

[BorrachoNJ]

wow. thanks, massachusetts.

i would have thought maybe mr. hall was intimidated by the atmosphere and internation squads but judging from the list compiled by my man from new england, scratch that factor out.

blame the players, they're the thugs.

[Soccernova78]

Originally posted by JerzyRebel
Hall didn't lose control. The Mexican players did. And what was up with the one Mexican player running in and throwing some shots before running away like a little bitch?

As for Andres Cantor, he is an overblown Mexican shill who might as well be on the FMF payroll if he isn't already.

Exactly. That was Briseno who sucker punched Pizarro then ran away like a little girl. LOL. Just your typical wussy slap fight with cheap shots aplenty.

[Danks81]

Does anyone have a clip? I always enjoy watching bench clearing slap fights.

[DJPoopypants]

Question to the real refs here - would it have been appropriate for Brian Hall to end the game after the teams ran off the field - either for not having enough men on the field, or for the obvious crowd trouble?

Or was it better to have the teams come back out and hopefully tensions in the stands would defuse instead of getting worse?

[Chowderhead]

I've been eager to add my two cents. I did watch the game in its entirety and I did tape it (I tape every game that I can that involves El Tri).

Brian Hall was perhaps the one person on the field who was motivated by the spirit of the "amistoso". While he had to seize control, he also had to encourage play by demonstrating some leniency.

I felt that the second goal was a good goal; a defender in the middle played the attacker on.

And I would I have been shocked if he HAD added time. The addition of time is purely at the ref's discretion, very rarely is much time added in friendlies and it is traditional for officials to blow the whistle on 90 if one team, especially the one trailing, has caused so much trouble.

That Andres Cantor should have dedicated so much of his ranting to Hall's "failure" to add time was an embarrassment and a clear indication of his obsession with unfairly scrutinizing American refs.

When they did come back to say goodbye, he had calmed down and decided to finally indict the Mexicans but by then it was too late.

I called Telemundo and complained.

That game and its broadcast were clearly a low point in Latin soccer.

[Chowderhead]

Originally posted by DJPoopypants
Question to the real refs here - would it have been appropriate for Brian Hall to end the game after the teams ran off the field - either for not having enough men on the field, or for the obvious crowd trouble?

Or was it better to have the teams come back out and hopefully tensions in the stands would defuse instead of getting worse?

I've seen matches abandoned. It was a measure of Hall's charity that the full 90 were played.

[RushOnze]

Some other facts: Mexico showed up at the stadium only 50 minutes before kick-off
Mexico did not warm up on the field before the match
Mexico was supposed to have a high-profile match vs. Spain, but got Peru instead
Mexico just started its season
Peru has a WC qualifier in two weeks
2nd goal was as good as they get and the replay continually showed him being on (why is there any question)
fans were upset at Mexico and threw the bottles
No players from Mexico complained about having no additional time, they just wanted to get out of there

mexican federation should be embarassed

[BorrachoNJ]

one more fact:

jared borgetti quote:

''we gave peru the victory, we gifted them the three goals. they weren't better than us.''

a true professional.

no wonder everyone wants them to lose...

[condor11]

borgetti only wishes he was as good as pizarro ;)