Die Löwen! TSV 1860 München Official Thread 07/08 part 2 [R]

[goindownsouth]

Not that I know of. You can always try using an anonymouse proxy server and finding a stream but in the long run $40 bills for this service is a small price t pay and certainly worth giving to the club.

Good point. I will have to keep that in mind for the next term.

[goindownsouth]

I found a TV station in Freiburg that streams online... Any chance they may have the match on today?

[panicfc]

I did not know that.

===
Apparently the base in town flies in brews from Germany for the Oktoberfest!

[goindownsouth]

I did not know that.

===
Apparently the base in town flies in brews from Germany for the Oktoberfest!

You need to share!!! :D LOL

[panicfc]

I dont' think they let it off the base, but I'm planning on going when it happens.

[goindownsouth]

Any chance of the occasional update during the Sechzig match today?

[panicfc]

0-2 Freiburg

[goindownsouth]

*sigh*

Not what I was hoping for...

I expect a full match report when this is over. Preferrably in English. LOL

[panicfc]

3 now. ugly.

[goindownsouth]

So much for hoping Die Loewen would put forth a good effort in front of the home folks...

[panicfc]

I just watched the scoreboard.

Mainz scores late to piss of FC and FCK.

[goindownsouth]

Well, all is not lost then... LOL

[LoewenBoy]

Never seen a team control a game and go down 0-2 to the guests so fast. The ref did not help, but he was more annoying in not calling things consistently. He in no way cost us the game but a few call going our way at key times (Goektan foul in the area) might have changed things. Then again, maybe not.

Clearly Kurz had guys on the field who have not had much time just to see what they can do. Comments below:


Tschauner: OMG...he simply leaps after stuff!!! HE does not try to stop shots, rather dive for show. I HATE that in keepers!!!! Herr Reuter, new keeper please?

Johnson: Had a decent match but with his speed and endurance should overlap WAY more than he does. Paired well on that side with Ziegenbein.

Thorandt: Either he or Szukala blew their marking assignment on the SCF striker who scored 0-1. Average match for him, but his "average" is dangerous.

Szukala: Not a good match from him. Two headers and central defense was left open. Anyone notice that since Berhalter has been benched we have given up 4 header goals in two games? Don't know what is worse: giving up break away chances because you are slow, or giving up header goals because you suck int he air.

B. Schwarz: Good match IMHO. Played well. Like Johnson, could overlap more.

L. Bender: No where. Did not move. Seems to think once defensive role is done he does not need to move.

D. Schwarz: Same as Bender. Lacking creativity and leadership.

Ziegenbein: Came to play. Yes he was all over the place like a puppy, but at least he seemed to be playing with heart. He really wanted to prove he was capable of playing at that level. My MoM for 1860.

Göktan: Not in this match. Just not showing the same flair. Still finding his match form after the injury.

Bierofka: Average match from him but he seemed lost because those around him were not moving at all.

Di Salvo: Terrible match. Just not around and not dangerous.

S. Bender: Not in long enough to make a difference.

Kucukovic: Usual plodding self. Got carded for a dumbass foul and will be out next week for his 5th yellow...small favor there.

Ledgerwood: Should have started. Far better attacker than either of the Benders or Schwarz.

In short, seemed the midfield just did not want to attack OR were more afraid of being scored upon than scoring themselves. With 39 pts and playing at home, THAT is the time to put the pedal to the metal and play your friggin heart out. Fans booed them off the field....don't blame them.

[footyfan1]

Never seen a team control a game and go down 0-2 to the guests so fast. The ref did not help, but he was more annoying in not calling things consistently. He in no way cost us the game but a few call going our way at key times (Goektan foul in the area) might have changed things. Then again, maybe not.

From what I saw at the AA, a few calls wouldn't have changed anything. Even if the ref had been fooled by that dive someone (Goektan?) took in the penalty area in the second half. I was at the other end, six rows up from the pitch and you could clearly seem him "fold" his feet to go down.

Clearly Kurz had guys on the field who have not had much time just to see what they can do.

This match showed me that the youngsters clearly are not ready to take the torch.


Comments below:


Tschauner: OMG...he simply leaps after stuff!!! HE does not try to stop shots, rather dive for show. I HATE that in keepers!!!! Herr Reuter, new keeper please?

Johnson: Had a decent match but with his speed and endurance should overlap WAY more than he does. Paired well on that side with Ziegenbein.

Thorandt: Either he or Szukala blew their marking assignment on the SCF striker who scored 0-1. Average match for him, but his "average" is dangerous.

Szukala: Not a good match from him. Two headers and central defense was left open. Anyone notice that since Berhalter has been benched we have given up 4 header goals in two games? Don't know what is worse: giving up break away chances because you are slow, or giving up header goals because you suck int he air.

B. Schwarz: Good match IMHO. Played well. Like Johnson, could overlap more.

L. Bender: No where. Did not move. Seems to think once defensive role is done he does not need to move.

D. Schwarz: Same as Bender. Lacking creativity and leadership.

Ziegenbein: Came to play. Yes he was all over the place like a puppy, but at least he seemed to be playing with heart. He really wanted to prove he was capable of playing at that level. My MoM for 1860.

Göktan: Not in this match. Just not showing the same flair. Still finding his match form after the injury.

Bierofka: Average match from him but he seemed lost because those around him were not moving at all.

Di Salvo: Terrible match. Just not around and not dangerous.

S. Bender: Not in long enough to make a difference.

Kucukovic: Usual plodding self. Got carded for a dumbass foul and will be out next week for his 5th yellow...small favor there.

Ledgerwood: Should have started. Far better attacker than either of the Benders or Schwarz.


Tschauner: You know I don't think he's worthy of starting for 1860, but the defense left him hanging out to dry last night.

Johnson: Isn't how much and how far he goes forward decided by Kurz? I thought he was solid, so I think we agree there.

Thorandt: Needs work. Which I think they are doing now. It's like I said a couple of weeks ago, they realized their season is over and I think they are seeing what they truly have in these kids. This one has a future, but you know that.

Szukala: Not very good, but I saw potential. I would keep playing him for educational purposes. Big kid.

Benny Schwarz: I agree with your assessment. Of course with the same question I gave you on Johnson. Have they extended his contract yet?

Lars Bender: Sucked in my opinion.

D. Schwarz: Agree totally.

Ziegenbein: Agree totally.

Goektan: Don't know that I agree on his "still finding his form." I think he's found "his form" but just isn't getting any support. I think he, like the others at 1860 have simply come down to earth.

Bierofka: Could have used his teammates for non-support.

di Salvo: This is what I was trying to tell you before. That was the di Salvo who is very familiar to me.

S. Bender: Tried hard from what I saw.

Kucukovic: I call him Ku-SUCK-ovic. 'Nuff said.

Ledgerwood: I think you're probably right. He probably should have started.







In short, seemed the midfield just did not want to attack OR were more afraid of being scored upon than scoring themselves. With 39 pts and playing at home, THAT is the time to put the pedal to the metal and play your friggin heart out. Fans booed them off the field....don't blame them.

I thought they simply got their asses whipped by a better team who tried to let them have more of the game and they wouldn't take it.... ;)

[goindownsouth]

Are there any indications as to what Sechzig may do in the transfer market? Supposing that Worns is not involved... LOL

[LoewenBoy]

Are there any indications as to what Sechzig may do in the transfer market? Supposing that Worns is not involved.
Good topic. My controlling assumption in all comments, both Reuter and Kurz have said they need experience rather than youth in any new signings. I expect that means they will sign anyone over 26 who has 1) international caps, 2) 1BL experience, 3) solid record, 4) not a head-case or trouble-maker. My thoughts below:

Michael Hofmann: Has a contract until next year. Am certain he will retire then and go into coaching at 1860.
Philipp Tschauner: Contract until 2011 but cannot believe he will last as #1 past next October.
Andreas Rössl: Great young kid but can he handle the 2BL pressure? My guess is they will try to extend him one more year to 2010 (Contract up in 2009) so they have room with him to see how he works as a back-up. Will get solid playing time with the IIs.
Torben Hoffmann: Contract until 2010 but would expect him to play a bench role mostly. Still has much to contribute.
Gregg Berhalter: Contract through 2009 but I think he is done as a starter. Still has a great deal to contribute though. Goes to MLS next spring.
Markus Thorandt: Contract until next summer but my guess he will be given the rope to either hang himself or prove he can play 2.BL ball. My bet is he heads off to new land next year.
Mate Ghvinianidze: Can certainly play but his operation will draw into question his health. Was injured 2-3 times this season. Will he recover? How will he play? His contract is through 2011 so they will play him steadily until then. His long-term fate is in his hands...and God's.
Christoph Burkhard: Another injured youngster. Not sure he will be extended (08 contract). If he is it may only be a year. Plays ok, but we have plenty of "ok" defenders. My bet is he is allowed to leave this summer.
Benjamin Schwarz: Contract up in 2009. If I were Retuer I would be signing this kid. He is the right back of the future and we want to push his stock price up BIG TIME for when he eventually leaves...as they all do.
Julian Baumgartlinger: Austrian U20 international with a contract up in 2009. My guess is we extend with him. Good attacking midfielder.
Alexander Eberlein: Contract up in 2009. Good young talend and U20 German international. Has been injured and on military duty most of the season. I think this kid can really play but needs to stay healthy. My guess is 1860 extend with him and keep him on the pro roster, but get him tons of playing time with the IIs as well.
Lukasz Szukala: Contract is up, was injured much of this season and has seen little playing time. Is another "ok" defender, but where he has speed (Berhalter and Torben did not) he sucks in the air. I think his fate is decided by the transfer market: If there are better, more experienced defenders out there, he goes; if not, he stays one more year.
Daniel Bierofka: Ain't going anywhere with a contract through 2011 unless one of the promoted clubs want to pay for him. Doubt it though given he wants to retire in Muenchen and he just arrived.
Danny Schwarz: Contract through 2009. My guess is he will figure in the new team but whether he is extended like other older players will depend on next season.
Sven Bender: Not going anywhere. New contract through 2011. Will have to play much better for other teams to wnat to pay for him.
Timo Gebhart: Same as Sven. Has the talent but needs to prove it more.
Lars Bender: See brother Sven.
Nicolas Ledgerwood: Nick has a contract through 2009. Got that horrible leg break. He is back, fast, wiley and ready to play. My guess is they extend with him and get him more 1st team time ahead of Gebhart and the Bender Bros. If they don't, watch Fuerth or some other perennial hopeful come calling to pick him up. He is a good player and he will be recruited if we do not attempt to keep him. Would rather have him then Gebhart or either of the Benders honestly.
Björn Ziegenbein: Snake-bit Bjorn. Contract up this summer. He was a favorite of Schachner last season and I honestly thought he was one of the better players in that debacle. When Kurz came in the guy got relegated to the IIs. He is very much like Wolff: has speed and plays outside. Unlike Wolff, he has tenacity, a good shot and tons of hustle. I like the guy but he never got a shot at the first team until last weekend. My guess is that there is some bad blood between him and Kurz. There has got to be a reason you leave a guy like this -- not that he is a superstar or anything, but is equal to Wolff IMHO -- on the II team. My guess he is allowed to leave. When he does we will find out why he did not play at 1860.
Manuel Duhnke: 21 and contract up this year. Always been a solid IIs player. 11 goals in two years with the IIs. Not sure they will keep him...too many other players just like him.
Fabian Johnson: Not going anywhere for two years. Then the bigger clubs will come get him. Not saying he is Bayern material but after the way they played at Zenit maybe he is.:cool:
Antonio di Salvo: I like Toni. I think he will continue to help 1860. He is not going anywhere either.
Berkant Göktan: With a contract up in 2009 and a clear fan favorite, it will be interesting to see what is done here. I have no clue because he says he wants to stay but 1860 has not signed him yet. Jury is out.
Josh Wolff: Contract up this summer. He is cheap and perhaps 1860 extend another year....unless they keep Ziegenbein or find another fast outside midfielder.
Chhunly Pagenburg: New signing until 2010. Will play solidly with the IIs next season and will see some first team time if Gebhart and the Bender Bros don't step up.
José Holebas: Contract through 2009 and form is spotty. Will likely continue to come on for Toni but he will have to prove he can net more than 1 important goal against FCK to get a new contract.
Markus Schroth: 1860 ain't likley to throw good oney after bad. I'll bet that if he is not fully cleared by the Dr. to play this summer he will pull a Cerny and retire. I really WANT to see him come back and execute for 1860 one more season. I also want him to be able to walk after football.
Mustafa Kucukovic: Proof that even Stefan Reuter makes boners. Possibly the stupidest signing of Reuter's career. Like the real ugly chick we all slept with in college, my bet is he goes to bed at night cringing at having signed him. Contract up in 2011. Talk about a 3 year security blanket for someone who's only talent is getting pissed off and drawing yellow cards.
Manuel Schäffler: A product of the Loewen youth system, the kid is 19 and was signed until 2009. First full year in the IIs and he had 7 goals in 19 games. The 1860 leaders are hot on this kid, as are the veteran players. Expect him to get extended soon.Will do the II's team next.

[goindownsouth]

Wow, now that is some indepth analysis right there.

Would it be fair to say that if Die Löwen were promoted, say within a year or two, that would help or hinder them in either keeping their younger talent and/or lend aid in bringing in other talent?

[LoewenBoy]

Reminder: Most of the IIs were kids taken directly from the U19 team which was so successful for 1860. Many have played together for 1860 since U16s. Here is my take on the IIs:

Rodolfo Rodríguez: Keeper who's contract up in summer and will not likely be extended. Was a security blanket. Might get extended as he had 10 games and is only 21.
Joachim Kohlbacher: 23, contract up this summer, 0 games. Gone.
Mathias Wittek: One of the promoted U19s, 3 games for the IIs and contract until 2010. Expect him to see more action next season.
Julian RateiL Another of the U19s in their first season. Contract up next year and will see more time to earn his place.
Florian Jungwirth: Another U19 promotee with contract up next year. Played 16+ games for the IIs and is a coach's favorite. Expect to see him alot next season.
Florian Tausendpfund: A steady influence with a contract up this year. Not sure if they keep him or not.
Steve Purdy: Contract up but this perplexes me. Kid played 23 games, was solid in the back, liked by the coach but no extension announced yet. Very tall, good in the air. Hope they sign him rather than him going to MLS.
Claus Bückle: First year with IIs and contract unil 2009. 13 games and will likely see more action next year.
Michael Schick: Young, strong defender. Another like Tausenpfund. contract up in 2009 and will be playing next season for an extension.
Anton Fink: Contract up. 26 games, 6 goals and real player. Will a 3BL team pick him up or will 1860 extend. Given no immediate signing by 1860 or anyone else leads to believe he is one of many looking for work. Whether he stays or not, he is a decent, hard-working 21 year-old.
Manuel Leicht: 22, 1 game, contract up, gone.
David Schittenhelm: Like Bueckle and Schick, 21 and contract up next year and will be playing for a longer-term spot.
Niklas Lercher: See Leicht....gone.
Dominik Stahl: Contract until 2010 and 14 games for the club. Will be around to make his name or die trying.
Andreas Baufeldt: 24, had 21 games, 2 goals and contract until next season. Make or break year for him. Needs to score more.
Ralf Schmitt: At 31 and contract up, do they extend to keep him around for experience? With 18 games and 1 goal, my guess is he retires or is picked up cheap from someone who needs bench experience. Kocukovic should end up with this guy's career.
Tobias Bukowski: 21, contract up, 8 games 0 goals. Gone.

[LoewenBoy]

Would it be fair to say that if Die Löwen were promoted, say within a year or two, that would help or hinder them in either keeping their younger talent and/or lend aid in bringing in other talent?
1860 need to find the perfect storm they had last fall between 1) experienced players, 2) deeper bench, 3) youth experience and talent, 4) money, 5) health for key players.

Had 1860 not lost 5 key players to injury during their hot streak in the fall they would be in the promotion race right now. However, given how they are playing without those key players in the 2.BL, my guess is if they had gotten promoted this season without the factors I suggest above it would have been a bad year in the 1.BL for 1860. But, promotion may have lead to better player choices, more $$, etc., so who is to say.

They need to find that perfect storm again.

[LoewenBoy]

Kicker Ratings:

Tschauner (3): The guy doing the analysis must have stayed for the first 20 mins or less. He was TERRIBLE!!!!
Johnson (4): ROFL now CLEARLY the guy did not stay for the whole game. Johnson was AT LEAST a 3 if not better.
Thorandt (4,5): For me he was a 5. Sucked in covering the 3 goals
Szukala (4,5): Same as Thorandt.
B. Schwarz (4): Wow, he was my Man O'Match. At least a 3 was he.
D. Schwarz (4,5): Fair
L. Bender (5): Fair
Ziegenbein (4): Well, for me 3.5 or 3.
Göktan (4,5): Fair
Bierofka (5): Geesh....he cannot do it by himself. Totally unfair.
di Salvo (5,5): Fair
Kucukovic (5): Geesh, he was BETTER than di Salvo? This guy must be sleeping with Kusuckovic and Tschauner together.How he can give Tschauner a 3 clearly indicates this guy either was in the WC for 85 of the 90 minutes OR he is a member of the same Society for the Promotion of Ineptitude that Kucukovic and Tschauner go to.