Die Löwen! TSV 1860 München Official Thread 07/08 part 2 [R]

[russ99]

I strongly disagree. He almost did it this year (relegation) with him being unable to strengthen the team when it was a MUST. With di salvo and goektan out for months he did not act on the emergency on hand. Did he not realise that there was nobody left to score the goals? He and Zipfel were always hiding behind their figures instead of trying to get some cash injection exploring some innovative ways (fundraising). I'm sick to the core of these voices demanding patience and telling us to keep nourishing new talent. This is the way to manage an amateur club, but not a club like 1860. I don't give a s*** if they get some oldies from BL1 as long as there is hope to get near the first three in BL2. What's the point in having these hopeful talents when nobody wants to watch them and you have to sell them for small change in the near future? Consolidation is good, but it can't last forever. Chuck out Reuter and Kurz and start with a new management team. If we didn't have the lucky break (2:1) in Kaiserslautern we'd be staring in the face of relegation right now. Please don't give me that Reuter bulls....:mad:

I understand your frustration. All 1860 fans want to get to that point as well.

But there are some holes in your argument. Every year at the Winterpause, I wring my hands hoping that 1860 can bring in 2-3 solid reinforcements like every other club with aspirations for promotion (or avoiding relegation) seems to do. The problem is that we just don't have the transfer funds to do that kind of restocking on the fly.

Acquiring Pagenburg (who we got only with a very creative offer by Reuter) was the best they could do. Also Pagenburg looked much better at FCN than here, but that may have been due to better quality teammates and the fact that Kurz played him more at a back-end midfield role, when he was a CAM and striker at FCN.

I agree there has to be some kind of way to better fund the club, but unless we become a feeder club (bad idea), some rich guy buys into ownership (pretty much impossible with the current structure) or higher-end sponsors are acquired, I don't see us getting the kind of financing a club like Köln or Gladbach has. Maybe that can be a campaign strategy for the club presidency next year, who has the most financing lined up...

I don't think letting the current president stroke his ego and ditching our entire management team and our sponsors with them will get us closer to our common goal.

[goindownsouth]

It just does not seem like a good situation all around for Sechzig. A shame, really. Here's to hoping this can get straightend out sooner rather than later.

[footyfan1]

I strongly disagree. He almost did it this year (relegation) with him being unable to strengthen the team when it was a MUST. With di salvo and goektan out for months he did not act on the emergency on hand. Did he not realise that there was nobody left to score the goals? He and Zipfel were always hiding behind their figures instead of trying to get some cash injection exploring some innovative ways (fundraising). I'm sick to the core of these voices demanding patience and telling us to keep nourishing new talent. This is the way to manage an amateur club, but not a club like 1860. I don't give a s*** if they get some oldies from BL1 as long as there is hope to get near the top 3 in BL2. What's the point in having these hopeful talents when nobody wants to watch them and you have to sell them for small change in the near future? Consolidation is good, but it can't last forever. Chuck out Reuter and Kurz (should be sacked after this shocking losing streak)and start with a new management team. If we didn't have the lucky break (2:1) in Kaiserslautern we'd be staring in the face of relegation right now. Please don't give me that Reuter bulls....:mad:



With "LowenBoy" and "russ99" here. I totally understand your frustration man, but I also think your opinion is a bit unrealistic.

Get reinforcements with what? Make deals with who? It's not like clubs were lining up to help 1860.

They couldn't even afford to bring back suckass Benjamin Lauth, but they tried.....

Too many '60 fans act like they didn't try. They did. You just can't get much without much.

[Lionhead]

But there are some holes in your argument. Every year at the Winterpause, I wring my hands hoping that 1860 can bring in 2-3 solid reinforcements like every other club with aspirations for promotion (or avoiding relegation) seems to do. The problem is that we just don't have the transfer funds to do that kind of restocking on the fly.

This wasn't a question of reinforcement. It was purely an emergency situation. What do you do when you have your top scores out? You certainly don't buy another FCN reject. Well done, Reuter. We all know where you come from.


I don't think letting the current president stroke his ego and ditching our entire management team and our sponsors with them will get us closer to our common goal.[/QUOTE]

That's where you are mistaken. If you get a high profile management team, the sponsors will bite.:cool:

[footyfan1]

This wasn't a question of reinforcement. It was purely an emergency situation. What do you do when you have your top scores out? You certainly don't buy another FCN reject. Well done, Reuter. We all know where you come from.


One question. What would you have done??

[City Dave]

Spot on....is what I am hearing too. Now Reuter does have a contract but I imagine he would negotiate a walking clause knowing how smart he is. If 1860 loses Reuter we are RL bound within 2 years. Mark my words.

Do you mean the new 3. BL or actually all the way down through that to the RL?

[footyfan1]

That's where you are mistaken. If you get a high profile management team, the sponsors will bite.:cool:


Maybe at first.......

[footyfan1]

Do you mean the new 3. BL or actually all the way down through that to the RL?


I'm pretty sure he means all the way down to the RL (4th Division). That will be amateur football starting next season.

[Lionhead]

One question. What would you have done??

Look abroad. For example: Sunderland. Roy Keane had a couple of decent strikers for loan. But Reuter does'nt look beyond FCN.

[Lionhead]

I'm pretty sure he means all the way down to the RL (4th Division). That will be amateur football starting next season.

In the present shape it would suit...

[LoewenBoy]

I strongly disagree. He almost did it this year (relegation) with him being unable to strengthen the team when it was a MUST.
[snip]
Please don't give me that Reuter bulls....:mad:
Dude, with all due respect, you have zero clue on this one. The statement that 1860 would be in the RL has ZERO to do with finding talent or recent acquisitions, and has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that this set of fools is dismantling the very fabric that has made 1860 stable this past year. Consider this:

Trenkwalder is concerned that 1860's end-fighting is have a negative impact on their market image and brand. They would be correct. For a worker placement company to be embroiled in the middle of a worker's firing simply for speaking his mind is embarassing at best.
Trenkwalder's open letter is very specific about rumors that the Banks have withdrawn 1860's lines of credit. Guess what our second source of money is?
Trenkwalder is concerned by von Linde's rather tyrannical comment about the contract with 1860 being "solid and unbreakable" and not tied to one person. Trenkwalder's ONLY reason for sponsoring 1860 - byt the way, there were not many others lining up for that "honor" - was because of a personal relationship and credibility Ziffzer/Reuter had brought to 1860. When you get a meglamaniac like Von Linde saying the contract cannot be broken no matter what happens, that's like ASKING for Trenkwalder lawyers to find a loophole and leave.
If Trenkwalder pulls out, what money will 1860 have? With no lines of credit and no sponsor (again), who will pay the bills? Who will have the financial prowess to reneogtiate contracts and restructure them? Von Linde? Wettberg?
If there is zero money and no sponsor, how long do you think we can keep Goektan? Bierofka? We will have a fire sale to raise cash just to keep out license that will make last year's hemmorage of players look like a small paper cut.
Lastly, how long do you think the DFL and DFB will put up with this shit? You may not be old enough to remember but this is EXACTLY what happened YEARS ago when we lost our license and went to the abyss of the Oberliga Bayern. The DFB pulled our license, our players with pro contracts (which, by the way get dissolved if we go to the RL) all walked (FOR FREE!!!!) and we had ZERO cash.Dude, this is 1982 ALL over again. We missed promotion by 1pt., fell into financial dis-repair and the DFB banished us to the Oberliga Bayern where we stayed FOR TEN YEARS!!!!!!:mad: We had Rudi Voeller on our team then!!! Guess what happened? We lost our ENTIRE Kader....all of them.

Just wait. This is about business and running a club. This time next year 1860 will be celebrating going to the RL (or lower) if Reuter leaves and Von Linde & Co. don't stop their self-destructive ways.

[LoewenBoy]

Look abroad. For example: Sunderland. Roy Keane had a couple of decent strikers for loan. But Reuter does'nt look beyond FCN.
ROFL.....you think 1860 can afford English loan fees?:D

Holy Crap....the AVERAGE EPL loan fee (let alone salary) would be = to 1860's annual budget.

[footyfan1]

Look abroad. For example: Sunderland. Roy Keane had a couple of decent strikers for loan. But Reuter does'nt look beyond FCN.

Dude, BVB tried to line up a couple of loan deals from other places in Europe and we couldn't because we couldn't afford it.

We have more money than 1860 and you think 1860 can afford what it would cost to get a player on loan from the Premiership??

Man, I definitely respect what you say when it comes to 1860, but in this case, I think you're not seeing the entire picture.

[Lionhead]

The DFB pulled our license, our players with pro contracts (which, by the way get dissolved if we go to the RL) all walked (FOR FREE!!!!) and we had ZERO cash.[/LIST]Dude, this is 1982 ALL over again. We missed promotion by 1pt., fell into financial dis-repair and the DFB banished us to the Oberliga Bayern where we stayed FOR TEN YEARS!!!!!!:mad: We had Rudi Voeller on our team then!!! Guess what happened? We lost our ENTIRE Kader....all of them.

Just wait. This is about business and running a club. This time next year 1860 will be celebrating going to the RL (or lower) if Reuter leaves and Von Linde & Co. don't stop their self-destructive ways.

I remember it too well. It was a different scenario all together and a making of this Riedl CSU politician. Don't go over board with Trenkwalder. They're just sponsor, not owner.

IMO there has to be a cut. If heads have to roll so be it! If we have to start all over again it's still better than living in constant fear of not surviving.

[Lionhead]

ROFL.....you think 1860 can afford English loan fees?:D

Holy Crap....the AVERAGE EPL loan fee (let alone salary) would be = to 1860's annual budget.

We are talking about Sunderland, not ManU. You're obviously not in the picture. Keane had several players surplus and was desperately looking for loan deals. There was certainly room for negotiations....

[Lionhead]

Dude, BVB tried to line up a couple of loan deals from other places in Europe and we couldn't because we couldn't afford it.

We have more money than 1860 and you think 1860 can afford what it would cost to get a player on loan from the Premiership??

Man, I definitely respect what you say when it comes to 1860, but in this case, I think you're not seeing the entire picture.

Well, they must have looked in the wrong places......;)

[russ99]

I remember it too well. It was a different scenario all together and a making of this Riedl CSU politician. Don't go over board with Trenkwalder. They're just sponsor, not owner.

IMO there has to be a cut. If heads have to roll so be it! If we have to start all over again it's still better than living in constant fear of not surviving.

That's where you and I differ. To me this was a disappointing season, but considering where we are now compared to 3 years ago it seems like the sun is finally peeking over the mountain. We're (barely) in the black, the Allianz mess is behind us and we're developing good young players.

Sheesh, if Schroth had been able to play, we'd all be congratulating ourselves over a solid upper-table finish...

To throw it all away and start over (over something as stupid as averting relegation with an injury-laden roster) would be a tremendous waste, especially because it would be due to the ego of one guy and the misguided supporters group that backs him.

I for one am glad with the small steps towards respectability the club has taken recently. If you expect us to be a club like Schalke, Werder or Bayern, good luck with that.

[LoewenBoy]

IMO there has to be a cut. If heads have to roll so be it! If we have to start all over again it's still better than living in constant fear of not surviving.
So you think there is someone BETTER out there than Reuter that 1860 can afford? Who will do a better job? Who?

Ziffzer was protecting Reuter from the Club politics within 1860. The fact that the 3 stooges who alluded to the possibility that Reuter's contract may not be extended. Did Ziffzer go overboard? A bit, perhaps. But the man is 100% spot on.

And this is EXACTLY like 1982. If we lose Reuter and Ziffzer we will lose Trenkwalder. Who will want to sponsor 1860 then? For how much? Where will we get a line of credit? Our books are balanced, for now. It took THIS long to get a guy like Ziffzer who had the balls to stand up to 1860 and say "enough already, stop spending like you are Bayern....or Hannover for that matter".

I think you are not being realistic. We are in some serious shit here. Without Reuter and Ziffzer, our finances will decline and so will the club.

[LoewenBoy]

We are talking about Sunderland, not ManU. You're obviously not in the picture. Keane had several players surplus and was desperately looking for loan deals. There was certainly room for negotiations....
With what money could 1860 have done this? We had to secure 1.5m in cash on hand AND balance the books AND meet our lines of credit AND save money for securing expiring contracts ALL before the DFB deadline for securing our license. We did all this by the skin of our teeth. We simply had ZERO cash to spend. Don't confuse being in the black as being able to afford to eat at Gordan Ramsay's. We are still on a McDonald's budget.

[LoewenBoy]

The Ziffzer Saga:

Ziffzer's rant (http://www.eyep-tv.de/2.-liga/tsv-1860-munchen/tsv-1860-dr.-stefan-z-ffzer-der-fisch-stinkt-vom-kopf.html)
Trenkwalder PK #1 (http://www.eyep-tv.de/2.-liga/tsv-1860-munchen/trenkwalder-h.-mairhofern-prufen-ausstieg-bei-1860-13.html)
Trenkwalder PK #2 (http://www.eyep-tv.de/2.-liga/tsv-1860-munchen/hermann-mairhofern-ziffzer-wurde-gemobbt-23.html)
Trenkwalder PK #3 where the press asks questions (http://www.eyep-tv.de/2.-liga/tsv-1860-munchen/trenkwalder-fragen-und-antworten-der-journalisten-33.html)
And watching the fans argue (http://www.eyep-tv.de/2.-liga/tsv-1860-munchen/tsv-1860-munchen-fanstreit-an-der-grundwalder.html)What I find amazing is that everyone claims to have the best interest of the club at heart. Clearly, only those keeping thier mouth shut (like Reuter, Kurz and others) have the best interest at heart.

I think von Linde & Co. forget that Ziffzer and Reuter gave their OWN MONEY to 1860 so they could meet financial obligations last year. How quick people forget.