Goalkeeper question...

[craigbhoy]

If Coupet was to step down from National Team after Euro 2008, who is most likely to replace him??

Does Mandanda or Lloris have the chance to step up and be #1, and which one is the more likely/talanted??

Thanks.

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

If we go by Domenech's pecking order, it'll be Mickaël Landreau, although I think it's safe to say it's likely very few who would say he is deserving of being the #1 keeper on Les Bleus.

My answer would be Sébastien Frey of Fiorentina, who has been having a tremendous season in Italy as well as the UEFA Cup, where he came up with a sterling display against Everton to help his team advance.

In my opinion, Lloris would be immediately after him, though, as he continues to be the top keeper domestically. The only one who rivals him this season is Mandanda, who, in my assessment, is not quite as good a shot-stopper as Lloris (though he's quite good himself), whose reflexes are more than top-tier, but he has been solid as anyone.

Domenech appears to prefer Mandanda over Lloris at this point, however, though much of that could be due to (a) Mandanda is at a bigger club and (b) Lloris is available for the U-21 team, Les Espoirs, whereas Mandanda is not.

[Catel]

It would be different obviously if Lloris signs for Lyon this summer.

Tough choice !

[guignol]

pecking orders for GK's are only sacrosanct in the heat of competition. if coupet gets injured during the euro landreau will step in. but if greg announces retirement after the tournament, the hierarchy will be redone. landreau and frey will be in direct competition for n°1 and mandanda, lloris and pelé for n°2. the losers take the places of ramé and janot.

[NicolasN.]

pecking orders for GK's are only sacrosanct in the heat of competition. if coupet gets injured during the euro landreau will step in. but if greg announces retirement after the tournament, the hierarchy will be redone. landreau and frey will be in direct competition for n°1 and mandanda, lloris and pelé for n°2. the losers take the places of ramé and janot.

I have the feeling that even if Coupet gets injured during the tournament, Landreau will sit on the bench. Domenech is not blind, Landreau's performances with PSG are horrible. Even against Nice he looked so heavy, he couldn't catch the ball...in order to escape his responsibilities. He is responsible of the first goal we conceded (the Brazilian joke as well). He would be lucky to be picked up by Raymond to take part of the upcoming Euro.

We usually say that a club earns about 6/8 points thanks to a good goalkeeper but PSG losed points because of him during this season. It won't be a big deal to pick up Lloris or Mandanda instead of Landreau since it'll be considered fair by our fantastic medias.

Perhaps Landreau is still a starter at PSG because Le Guen wants to protect him. If he sit on the bench at PSG he better forget about the Euro.

Anyway, I don't think Domenech will remain the national team coach after the Euro so the hierarchy will be up to the next national team coach:p

[guignol]

the stock put in landreau was always a mystery to me. even when he was at nantes (where btw he was locker room poison despite being captain) he was a one-trick pony; good at the spectacular and médiatique feat of blocking penalties but no great shakes at the rest. his positioning, his game in the air, his throwing and kicking, all fair to mediocre. his place behind coupet should have been filled by ramé (since barthez always made it clear that the bench gave him diaper rash)

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

I think Landreau is among Domenech's favorites as when Micka was a goalkeeper in Espoirs, Domenech often spoke warmly of him and almost always selected him over the more skilled Frey, which I've always thought is a major reason as to why the hierarchy is this way now. However, I doubt that Landreau will get another minute of action again (except in a friendly), as Coupet's desire to finally be a starter likely means that he'll have to break both legs before relinquishing that spot, while with Lloris and company on the rise, I doubt that Micka will get any caps after the tournament.

I have nothing against the guy, though. It's only that he is in a role which others would be better suited at the moment.

[SportBoy333]

I read that Bayren are considering Frey to replace Kahn. If that happens it would probably solidify Frey as France's #1 keeper.

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

The two will likely face each other in the UEFA Cup Final.

[guignol]

over the two legs with getafe, kahn put in the worst performance by a goalkeeping icon i've ever seen, and that includes... well i won't go there.

btw, mananda had a horrible night against lille, large parts of responsability for each of the 3 goals is his.

[Romanista_NYC]

Given Frey's form this season, I'm surprised he's not your #1 pick for GK this coming tournament, let alone a definite #2. He's pure class.

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

Yes, I know, though according to our brilliant manager, Frey as a starter or even as the primary backup is not in the stars. :rolleyes: Wow, the sarcasm meter is off the charts!

[Romanista_NYC]

So who are the other players on Domenech's astrological sh.t list?

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

Well, to be fair, it's more likely that Domenech doesn't appreciate Frey due to his being in Italy. If we conclude that, it would also explain his negligence of Trezeguet and Mexès. Although actually, the only guy who I think was a direct victim of Domenech's astrology was Pires. He is a Scorpio and Domenech it is known has a strong aversion to people with that astrological sign.

[Inara]

I disagree that Domenech is biased against players in Italy. His captain is Vieira, who plays for Inter. He called up Trezeguet several times after the World Cup during Euro 2008 qualifying. But his nonperformance (I don't think Domenech liked the way the team plays when Trez is on the pitch) and his comments in the media unfortunately coincided with the emergence of Benzema, who is more compatible with Domenech's vision for the team.

As for Frey, goalkeeper is the one position on the team where the pecking order is rarely changed because of the confidence issue, especially before a major tournament. Frey may be a better keeper than Landreau, but Landreau has been France's #3 for a long time now, and only after Barthez stepped down did he become #2. Over the last 15-20 years, France has had only three starting goalkeepers - Lama, then Barthez, and then Coupet. Lama had to be caught for pot before Barthez could take over, and then Barthez had to step down before Coupet got the nod (even though it was widely acknowledged that Coupet was better than Barthez when the World Cup came around). Coupet didn't get that #1 spot until he was already 33 years old. And he will continue to be the #1 until he either retires or goes to the MLS (which is like retirement). It's a tradition in French football, and you can say it's a silly one, but it's one that everyone seems to respect. So Domenech's decision not to make Frey the #2 isn't an anti-Italy thing. It makes perfect sense when you look at how the France NT manages goalkeeper hierarchy.

Mexes is the one puzzling exclusion, but there is already a thread devoted to his aggression being a possible reason. Even before the World Cup, Domenech wasn't a big Mexes fan - the fact that he preferred Boumsong, who at the time was a chuckle brother at Newscastle, says a lot. And Mexes is 26 - he's been around for a long time now, Domenech had many opportunities to select him, long before he ever had a reason to hate Italy.

[Inara]

Anyway, in answer to the thread's question...most of it hinges on Coupet. If Coupet remains in Europe after this summer, he will not retire from international football, and Domenech will not force it either. In fact, Coupet has said that he would like to play in the 2010 World Cup. And since that's only two years away, and since goalkeepers can play until they are 37-38, it's entirely possible (though not preferable).

I personally am not a big fan of Landreau, but he's having a horrible season that's not indicative of his actual capabilities. Last year, he was the sole reason that PSG managed to stay in the top flight. But two seasons of fighting relegation can really hurt a player mentally, and it's obviously affected Landreau. I don't think Domenech will drop Landreau from the #2 spot (assuming Coupet is still around) until next winter to see if things improve for him. So either he moves to another club or PSG does better.

As for Frey, he is still ahead of Mandanda and Lloris in the pecking order, and if Coupet can get top spot at 33, Frey can do so at 30. However, the best chance for Frey to start would be if Coupet retired right after Euro 2008 since Domenech will not pick Mandanda and Lloris over him right now (they are too young and not enough high level experience), and Landreau is coming off a bad year.

But if Coupet sticks around until the next World Cup, by then, Lloris and Mandanda will have accumulated Champions League experience (hopefully) and some more appearances for the NT in qualifying, even if it's for A' games.

[guignol]

i saw both lloris and mandanda play this weekend; lloris had no occasion to impress in a very flat match, was saved by the bar twice on shots you couldn't really blame a keeper for not stopping. mandanda was under huge pressure that he handled royally, and was unfortunately not saved by his woodwork twice, again on shots you can't fault him on. he was the best marseillais last night... unfortunately.

[SuperSebGrimaldi]

Mexes is the one puzzling exclusion, but there is already a thread devoted to his aggression being a possible reason. Even before the World Cup, Domenech wasn't a big Mexes fan - the fact that he preferred Boumsong, who at the time was a chuckle brother at Newscastle, says a lot. And Mexes is 26 - he's been around for a long time now, Domenech had many opportunities to select him, long before he ever had a reason to hate Italy.

Actually Inara, Domenech doesn't hate Italy due to the World Cup Final. Raymond holds a grudge against them for an U-21 match played almost in the 20th century, a match in which Raymond's always maintained Italy dove/cheated/simulated their way to victory. Back then Mexès wasn't even U-21 yet, so I actually think Domenech's dislike of Italy started before his alleged dislike of Philippe, though it's not my main argument.

I do think that Domenech has something against Italian-based players. Yes, Domenech has Vieira as the captain of the team, but that act is irrelevant as Vieira would have been captain irregardless of where he played, and also, at the start of the Domenech era, Vieira was captain (and with Arsenal). His callling on Trez was almost ordained as the guy's been in brilliant form there and was leading the scoring charts throughout much of the season. That he hesitated to call on him again and that it took an injury to Valbuena, was it, to get him in the squad, would suggest that Domenech doesn't hold Italian-based stars highly.

Of course, with Ludovic Giuly at Roma, there is his alleged affair with Estelle or also, that there happen to be better players than Giuly at the moment. So it'd be tough to say anything conclusive about his bias there.

Although it's interesting to note that Domenech did not consider the Dacourts, Zebinas, etc. at all during their stay in Italy. Yes, they are quite mediocre players by the national team's standards, but I think that when you consider some of the guys Domenech has included ahead of them, it does show a bit of bias.

Also, there's Yohan Gourcuff, who Domenech did say he would consider, especially when he started off at Milan on such a positive note, though nothing came off it, so I don't think we can draw any conclusions there either.

Anyway, we'll see actually if Domenech stays on whether he has a bias against Italian-based Frenchmen as now Flamini has joined Milan, Abdoulay Konko is now shaping up well, Modibo Diakité will shake off his injury problems hopefully, Dominique Malonga looks a very good striker in the making, and there's the aforementioned Trez/Mexès/Frey.

Alright, I'm sorry about getting off-topic. Though to be on topic, Hugo Lloris is actually out for the remainder of the season, so he won't be at the Euros. :(

[Inara]

Oh right, that U21 match. Still, I don't buy it. Does he dislike Italy? Sure. But that he doesn't mean he selects players based on that. The excuse of hating Italy is just that, an excuse. Despite appearances indicating otherwise, he's not a simplistic man and often has complicated reasoning (perhaps even over complicated).

If he hated those who played in Italy that much that it would prompt him to drop a player like Trezeguet, then he wouldn't call up any Italian based player. Because if he's not calling up players based on that reason, why bother calling up Frey and Mexes in the first place? After all, if he dropped them, that wouldn't shock anyone, and he has just as good replacements for them elsewhere. And it's not because he's worried what people will think - we all know that Domenech doesn't care about that.

He doesn't pick Trezeguet because A.) he doesn't like the way the team plays when Trez is on the pitch, B.) Trez criticized Domenench publicly on more than one occasion (Anelka criticized Domenech and look how long it took him to get back into the NT), C.) Trez's presence creates disharmony in the locker rooms because the players take sides, and D.) Trezeguet would expect to push Benzema to #4 in the depth chart, which Domenech clearly doesn't want. I honestly think that Trezeguet could be playing at Arsenal and still wouldn't get the call up.

You're correct that Domenech does pick some weird players who could be considered mediocre by the NT standards, and while I agree Domenech is biased, I think it's more that he prefers players in the French league as opposed to mediocre players abroad. After all, there are many mediocre French players in England and Spain who don't get noticed by Domench either.

Just to touch on some of the examples you brought up, Gourcuff isn't a good one because he was even dropped from the U21s for a while. Giuly was at Barcelona during the WC and still didn't get called up. Despite playing to well with Arsenal, Flamini was hardly a main stream member of the squad this year and could consider himself lucky if he's considered the 5th choice DM. So if Flamini is on the bench at Milan, I wouldn't expect him to be called up at all.

As for Vieira, what you said about him also goes for Trezeguet, who played for Juve when Domenech came onto the scene and at that time was considered an irreplaceable member of the squad. Assuming Domenech has his selection bias, he had many excuses to drop Vieira this year. He's been injured for most of the season, and frankly, if Domenech has the balls to drop Trezeguet, he could have done the same to Vieira. Domenech could just as easily have made Henry or Gallas captain of the team, or even Thuram, who moved to Barca that summer. My point is, it didn't suit Domenech to drop Vieira because he felt that he needed him on the team.

I just feel like this Italy thing has been blown way out of proportion by the media. Besides Trezeguet, there are no great French players in Italy anymore. Mexes, Frey, and now Flamini, while talented, are by no means unique must-haves, and at this point in time, they are backups on the NT. Their lack of first team opportunities is due to a lot more reasons than simply the location of their respective clubs.

Domenech is an egotist, can make some illogical decisions at times, is rigid when it comes to tactics, and likes to play the media. He's an opportunist who has tunnel vision when it comes to the NT, to the extent that he hopes none of his players will participate in the Champions League, Coppa Italia, and Coupe de France finals (so that they will be fresh for the Euros). He uses players as needed for the France NT and discards them when they are no longer useful. Because for Domenech, individuals aren’t always what’s important. It’s all about the team. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

[Inara]

I also wanted to mention that I think his insistance on making such a public example out of Trezeguet is also his way of refusing to be pushed by the media or key players in his squad like he was during the World Cup (Zidane insisting on Barthez for example).