Birth of the "new" England

[thedelldays]

Not too sure if it is me but seeing as a nation with quality we have (albeit not in numbers at times) it is absolutely heart breaking to see the state of the national team the McCLown had it.

BUT. This season has given (hopefully not wasted) optimism.

we have WITHOUT QUESTION an absolute world class manager.

but, we have our best players performing in the big games for club more than ever.

The likes of gerrard, rooney, joe cole etc are technically superior to that of themselves 12-24 months ago.

Maybe, just maybe, having this summer off could be a good thing in more ways than one in the long term.

im not expecting much in france but the long term, In my opinion, is the best it has been for a long long time.

[Devil_78]

Must admit, with McClown, I was deeply sceptical about Englands chances, and lo, we failed to deliver at McClowns first hurdle.

However, under Capello, I do think we have a much brighter future. After all, we all know our top players can be a bunch of prima donnas, and Capello has coped with prima donnas before, and does not brook any rubbish from them.

However, there is a dark spot on the shiny horizon. Where is the next generation of England players? The Premier League is not churning out a torrent of fresh talent, given all the cash it has, is a little worrisome. OK, the U20's have done pretty well, but there is not that much choice.

[three lions]

There is some good talent in the Academy's...And the various Under teams have performed well..

[Devil_78]

That may be. But the big issue is that final furlong, so to speak. Getting them into the Premier League, and developed in the big time ready for the national team.

[Martininho]

At the risk of blasphemy, a few sincere questions follow.

Is England the best place for development of young English talent?

Might clubs in Spain, Italy, Netherlands, etc. provide a better "training ground" for the young talent to fully develop their skills? The underlying assumption here is that these leagues are generally regarded as focusing more on technical/ tactical play, whereas the Premiership focuses more on athleticism and tremendous pace of play that severely limits time on the ball...so feel free to address the validity of that assumption.

Is there a market for young English footballers to ply their trade in these places, and then move to the Premiership...or even remain abroad?

Would that, in the mind of the English fan, make the players somehow less "English", and therefore cause the National Team to diminish or lose its identity?

[sinner78]

Might clubs in Spain, Italy, Netherlands, etc. provide a better "training ground" for the young talent to fully develop their skills? The underlying assumption here is that these leagues are generally regarded as focusing more on technical/ tactical play, whereas the Premiership focuses more on athleticism and tremendous pace of play that severely limits time on the ball...so feel free to address the validity of that assumption.




the 4 premiership teams who reached the last 8 of the C.L didnt use any technique or tactics.
they just powered their way to the last 8 with tremendous pace.
yeah ,that must be it.

I seem to recall you trolling in this forum in the past.
When we had a thread about the world cup bid .
You went way off base with the thread topic.. just like you're doing now.

[Devil_78]

At the risk of blasphemy, a few sincere questions follow.

Is England the best place for development of young English talent?

Might clubs in Spain, Italy, Netherlands, etc. provide a better "training ground" for the young talent to fully develop their skills? The underlying assumption here is that these leagues are generally regarded as focusing more on technical/ tactical play, whereas the Premiership focuses more on athleticism and tremendous pace of play that severely limits time on the ball...so feel free to address the validity of that assumption.

Is there a market for young English footballers to ply their trade in these places, and then move to the Premiership...or even remain abroad?

Would that, in the mind of the English fan, make the players somehow less "English", and therefore cause the National Team to diminish or lose its identity?

a) Hardly say Ronaldo's game was all about power.
b) 4 out of the 8 are English, meaning something is working.
c) To bring this slightly back to topic, there is the language barrier to confront for English playrs to move abroad. it comes down to 2 things. 1) in the EPL, they will be paid lots of money, so why leave. 2) annoyingly, overseas, people may not necessarily speak English, meaning they will have to hurt their heads and learn a new language! I for one would advocate a stint of living overseas to broaden the mind, as I am currently trying to learn Japanese in Japan! Though it would be good experience for them to get out and try something new. But that would be my advice for anyone. I've travelled a little, a stint living in Holland, and now in Japan. I would l ike to think I am a better person for it.

[three lions]

That may be. But the big issue is that final furlong, so to speak. Getting them into the Premier League, and developed in the big time ready for the national team.

The future talent for England is bright. I'm not a " negative Nellie". I've seen the younger players, and they are impressive. Give it time..You can bump this thread in a few years and tell me that I was correct..;)

[Prenn]

At the risk of blasphemy, a few sincere questions follow.

Is England the best place for development of young English talent?

Might clubs in Spain, Italy, Netherlands, etc. provide a better "training ground" for the young talent to fully develop their skills? The underlying assumption here is that these leagues are generally regarded as focusing more on technical/ tactical play, whereas the Premiership focuses more on athleticism and tremendous pace of play that severely limits time on the ball...so feel free to address the validity of that assumption.

Is there a market for young English footballers to ply their trade in these places, and then move to the Premiership...or even remain abroad?

Would that, in the mind of the English fan, make the players somehow less "English", and therefore cause the National Team to diminish or lose its identity?

Utter rubbish. There's a case for players moving abroad to experience other footballing cultures. There's a case for players to move abroad if they're struggling to break through.

[The Potter]

Utter rubbish. There's a case for players moving abroad to experience other footballing cultures. There's a case for players to move abroad if they're struggling to break through.

Who'd buy them?

It wouldn't surprise me if we get older English players moving abroad in the future after they've made their money. Particuarly with the new transfer rules coming into place.

I'd also like to make a general point that Holland and in particular Spain have hardly won a lot either.

[thebigman]

holland has a waaaaaay smaller population than us though, but much better training systems and ideologies

we def need to learn some ish from them

[Devil_78]

The future talent for England is bright. I'm not a " negative Nellie". I've seen the younger players, and they are impressive. Give it time..You can bump this thread in a few years and tell me that I was correct..;)

I genuinely, sincerely hope you are right! My positive side agrees, but I do, unfortunately, have a pretty broad cynical side! I really hope I have to buy you a beer on the back of this!

[Martininho]

There's a case for players moving abroad to experience other footballing cultures.

That's really at the heart of what I was asking. Could the experience of other footballing cultures help to develop a pool of players that can make England a team that consistently reaches the medal rounds?

It's not as if England have suffered a fall-off akin to what happened with Hungary. Certainly in World Cups they consistently emerge from group play, and regularly get to the quarter-finals. It seems that small changes could yield that breakthrough capability, and I was asking whether posters feel that the additional, outside experience could be what's needed?

The other question was in regard to English fans' attitude towards players that didn't play in the Premiership. Here in the USA, it's a foregone conclusion that the national team can't be competitive if comprised of players that compete only in our domestic leagues. So, off they go to Europe. Here, it's cause for celebration when a player goes abroad, and they are welcomed and regarded with high hopes when national team duty calls.

So the question is, would England fans consider a national team player that had trained and played abroad as somehow less "English"?

Three Lions also mentioned the English football Academies, and that they are showing promise. I'm familiar with the apprenticeships of younger players through their clubs, but not with the Academy structure. Do you see the (assumedly) different philosophies as being the basis for hope in the upcoming generation of players?

[FCSF]

So the question is, would England fans consider a national team player that had trained and played abroad as somehow less "English"?

I don't think so. Owen Hargreaves played primarily in Germany and is not considered less "English".

[Martininho]

Actually, I was thinking of Hargreaves as the exception that proves the rule.

[lanman]

There is some good talent in the Academy's...And the various Under teams have performed well..

Even Stuart Pearce hasn't managed to stop the U21s being a very good side, and there is a fair bit of talent coming through at the younger age groups as well.
One thing that I like is that two of the U19 players are on loan at Aberdeen (Walker and Aluko) and have been getting experience in European competition. I'm not sure that the Scots would like to be a league which is continually used to nurture young English talent, but it can only benefit our younger players if this sort of loan continues.

[FCSF]

Actually, I was thinking of Hargreaves as the exception that proves the rule.

I don't think anyone considers Becks less "English" for his time in the US or Spain...

[thedelldays]

Even Stuart Pearce hasn't managed to stop the U21s being a very good side, and there is a fair bit of talent coming through at the younger age groups as well.
One thing that I like is that two of the U19 players are on loan at Aberdeen (Walker and Aluko) and have been getting experience in European competition. I'm not sure that the Scots would like to be a league which is continually used to nurture young English talent, but it can only benefit our younger players if this sort of loan continues.

agree totally...some of the kids coming through are absolutely superb...I guess that is the result of the big kick up the arse about 2000-2002 era...
now, whether these kids will carry it through to the big time remains to be seen...I am firmly a believer of the cream rising to the top so-to-speak

even theo walcott is showing flashed of brilliance now..woohoo

[FCSF]

One to watch in terms of young talent will be 16yo Luke Freeman who recently joined Arsenal.

[thewop]

I don't think so. Owen Hargreaves played primarily in Germany and is not considered less "English".


Actually hargreaves is canadian. U would think with all the depth in england they would have to pick a canadian. he should be playing for Canada