Big cities without a club in the top 2 divisions

[aloisius]

Duseldorf, Dresden, Leipzig.... anyone else? What’s the latest on the clubs from these cities and do they have chance to get promoted this year?

[Basti]

What I heard, and I can't be sure is that Dynamo Dresden is near liquidation.

Anyone can verify?

[olafgb]

Biggest city without pro club is Essen (6th largest city). They are favourite for promoting to D2.

Other really big ones with at least 250.000 citizens:

Bonn (also ran in D4)

Braunschweig (D3, good chances to return)

Chemnitz (D3)

Dresden (D3 - haven't heard about acute financial problems, but actually almost all clubs below D2 are everything but wealthy)

Düsseldorf (D4 - last year also ran, but they'll return, giant stadium is built there)

Leipzig (D3 promoted, wants to be in D2 in two years when their WC stadium is inaugurated)

Mannheim (D4 down due to finances)

Münster (D3 also ran)

Wiesbaden (no clue, do they have a D4 team?)

Wuppertal (just returned to D3)

[aloisius]

I didn’t know Essen was bigger than Dusseldorf. When were they last in the 1. or 2. Bundesliga? Are both Lepzig clubs going to play in the new stadium? Which one has more fans? How many sections are there on the 4. level in Germany? Could you post here from time to time if you read something interesting on these clubs? Especially how are Fortuna and VFB Leipzig doing?

[olafgb]

Originally posted by aloisius
I didn’t know Essen was bigger than Dusseldorf. When were they last in the 1. or 2. Bundesliga? Are both Lepzig clubs going to play in the new stadium? Which one has more fans? How many sections are there on the 4. level in Germany? Could you post here from time to time if you read something interesting on these clubs? Especially how are Fortuna and VFB Leipzig doing?

The difference between Essen and Düsseldorf is about 30.000. Essen relegated from 2.Bundesliga in 1997 or 1998, Bundesliga relegation was in 1977.

Not sure about Leipzig. I think it's only considered for an at least 2.Bundesliga team, so it's not very realistic for VfB. Don't know about VfB's and Sachsen's fans, just that they really hate another.

There are ten 4th divisions in Germany, next (or in 2?) season Hamburg/Schleswig-Holstein and Niedersachsen/Bremen merge, so that it's cut to 9.

Fortuna's new GM is Thomas Berthold. They have no money, but he's paid by an external source to push the club.

[Alex_K]

Originally posted by olafgb

There are ten 4th divisions in Germany, next (or in 2?) season Hamburg/Schleswig-Holstein and Niedersachsen/Bremen merge, so that it's cut to 9.


Next season. The best 8 of both leagues will qualify this year (+ 1 promoted team from every region).
I am definitly not in favour of this merger (but also because of personal reasons: this will limit the chances of my neighbourhood club to promote to the Oberliga even further-last year there were very close.)

[olafgb]

Originally posted by Alex_K
Next season. The best 8 of both leagues will qualify this year (+ 1 promoted team from every region).
I am definitly not in favour of this merger (but also because of personal reasons: this will limit the chances of my neighbourhood club to promote to the Oberliga even further-last year there were very close.)

But it makes sense given the low level of competition in both leagues. I'd even consider to introduce an Oberliga system with just 4 (North/West/East/South) sub-divisions. FCG starts into the 4th D4 season and I can say that about half of the teams even in the relatively well respected Oberliga Westfalen are pure village crap. In other D4s you hardly have a handful of competitive teams. Mergers care for better level, attractiveness and even a bit TV money.

[aloisius]

Absolutely right, olaf. I mean England have one league on the fifth level and you have ten sections on the fourth? Yes, England is a smaller more densely populated country but the difference is not that big.

[Alex_K]

I think that Niedersachsen is much better off without HH/SH. There is only one village club in the league (Ihrhove, plus 4 small clubs from big cities-Oberneuland, Weyhe, Langenhagen and Vorsfelde) while all other clubs are "traditional clubs" (or their amateurs). In exchange for those we get some small clubs from Hamburg and village teams from SH. I doubt that there is anyone in Niedersachsen who thinks that matches against Lurup, Meiendorf, Pinneberg or RASPO Elmshorn are more interesting than Lüneburg, Hildesheim or Göttingen.

[Eisern Union]

But can Oberliga teams afford the extra travel this would require (4 leagues)? Also, I would hate to see the Oberligas dominated by 1. and 2. Bundesliga reserve sides even more than they already are.

[olafgb]

The amateur teams are a special problem, they should either play their extra league or the pro teams should be forced to give them up and sign co-operation contracts with amateur teams instead.

The travel costs are another aspect to consider, but I think you'd get some TV money more than now, which would compensate it.

Alex, IMO only Nordhorn, Cloppenburg, Emden, Wilhelmshaven, Oldenburg and some amateur teams have a higher level. Hildesheim, Lüneburg, Göttingen, Weyhe etc might be interesting cities but they don't have good teams. A merger with HH/SH is surely not damaging Niedersachsen as I doubt that they have more than a max. of 3 competitive teams.

[aloisius]

So how are Fortuna and VFB Leipzig doing?

[wolfsburgh]

Dusseldorf is in 1st place (4th Div.), three points ahead of the Gladbach amateurs and some Turkish team from Cologne I never heard of.

Leipzig (4th Div.) is ten points out of first (in roughly 6th place), behind table-topping CZ Jena.

[unclesox]

Originally posted by olafgb

Düsseldorf (D4 - last year also ran, but they'll return, giant stadium is built there)

Geez, this is disappointing. Remember when Fortuna gave Barcelona a run for their money in that fantastic CWC Final in '79. I think Düsseldorf had KAllofs on that squad.
And the RheinStadion isn't a venue for Germany 2006... :(

[soccerfreak #1]

Originally posted by unclesox

And the RheinStadion isn't a venue for Germany 2006...

Yeah, thats ********ing great. Düsseldorf just svcks (I mean the city)