The State of Journalism in DC

[Riz]

Let us continue here. And I thank ye.

[mcontento]

At the risk of getting flamed I'll just say that for me Goff isn't the end all be all of soccer journalism in this town. I do appreciate the coverage he gives United and MLS in general but he rubs me the wrong way at times. There's a certain holier than thou attitude that other posters who know him personally can attest to but the kicker was his meltdown at the Nakamura piece linked on the Insider. Correct me if I'm wrong but a journalist should be impartial and open to reporting on perceived wrongdoing even if it's someone who works at the same company he does. It seems like Fisher, Goff and the rest of the Post have circled the wagons around Nakamura and the anti-stadium at Poplar Point stance. Maybe Goff isn't anti-stadium but the slants and bias in Fishers, Nakamura's and the Editorial staff's writings seem to indicate so..

I agree, he has a lot of faults but unfortunately his dittohead-esque minions always jump to defend him at every turn. :rolleyes:

I find that he is very touchy and snaps at people in his blog way too much for a professional. Sometimes he forgets the reason he has such a successful blog is because the readers keep coming back and dropping comments. I guess he has enough worshipers he doesn't care to risk alienating people with his attitude that people can't or shouldn't question him or state as he is so apt to do in his snotty way "what about my post was unclear!?!" if someone should ask what he means by something.

Seems a bit of a prick and full of himself to me. I've noticed that about quite a few of the Post's writers to be honest. Sietsema comes to mind as well. But hell if they get their rocks off thinking they are the shit, so be it.

[JayRockers!]

Well Fisher has a blog covering the event, Making Sausage: A Reporter's e-mails (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2008/03/how_the_sausage_is_made_a_repo.html), with quotes from Journalism school types, from Nakamura, and from the guy (DeBonis) who wrote the piece in the City Paper. Basically Fisher explains it as journalism business as usual.Irony-When I click on the link, a popup ad on the Post site proudly tries to entice me to buy tickets to a Nationals game.

Thx,

Jay!

[seahawkdad]

Well, at least you'd be familiar with the parking lot...:eek:

Re media and stadia..having witnessed closely how RSL's media treated that stadium effort and how San Jose's have repeatedly subtly trashed stadium efforts there, I have no illusions that it will be much different here.

It's just too tempting a target for journalists (newspapers) and wanna-be journalists (local TV news web-sites) not to demagog about.

Having gotten burned out on the RSL fight, I'm no longer enraged about this. There's nothing to be done...it's the nature of the beast.

[Doctor Woo]

In defense of Goff, the blog is not journalism. Journalism is the finished product, vetted by editors and held to a standard of truth (ideally) that is fairly understood from outlet to outlet.

The purpose of a blog in this case is to serve the community (i.e., BS soccer loonies). I suppose the papers encourage this activity to prop up dwindling readership and ad revenue, but as far as I can see it, it is a courtesy that I am thankful for.

If any crustiness made it into the print format you might have an argument about fairness and journalistic standards, but it is just a blog. I don't want to slavishly support every word that emerges from his laptop, but I am continually amazed at the access we have to a team that we support. Were that source to dry up, we would be much less well off.

[highlander]

In defense of Goff, the blog is not journalism. Journalism is the finished product, vetted by editors and held to a standard of truth (ideally) that is fairly understood from outlet to outlet.

The purpose of a blog in this case is to serve the community (i.e., BS soccer loonies). I suppose the papers encourage this activity to prop up dwindling readership and ad revenue, but as far as I can see it, it is a courtesy that I am thankful for.

If any crustiness made it into the print format you might have an argument about fairness and journalistic standards, but it is just a blog. I don't want to slavishly support every word that emerges from his laptop, but I am continually amazed at the access we have to a team that we support. Were that source to dry up, we would be much less well off.

Also in defense of Goff, we need to remember that the Washington Post is the organization that is allowing for the blog to exist. He is acutely aware of this because I am sure that his bosses have let him know this or, as a smart employee, he has figured it out. If the blog becomes a rallying point for anti-Washington Post sentiment, how long does that blog stay around? In addition, how does it help Stephen Goff to pour his heart and soul into something that makes him a pain in the butt to his bosses?

In addition, if Goff sees his blog going in a direction that will have a very negative impact to him personally, how does he handle it? What you saw is how he chose to handle it. I am not endorsing his choice, but I think that we need to cut him some slack. He does not have to do the blog. It is not his "day job". If he does it, it needs to be in his own (and his family's) best interest. I don't think that we need to put him in a situation where he has to choose between his and his families best interest and the best interest of DC United.

We've got a nice thing going. There are other ways to handle our frustrations toward the post than to put Goff in a position where he needs to make a choice. Most of us have been employees and understand how the drill works. Let's let Goff continue to work within his roll. He makes being a DC United fan all the more fun on a day in, day out basis. He didn't write the unfair articles and he didn't choose to publish them. Let's focus on the people that are a detriment to DC United and not try to go through Goff to get them. He's in a tough situation.

[seahawkdad]

...There are other ways to handle our frustrations toward the post than to put Goff in a position where he needs to make a choice....He didn't write the unfair articles and he didn't choose to publish them. Let's focus on the people that are a detriment to DC United and not try to go through Goff to get them.Correct.

There are a number other ways I can think of...

The best way, for those who seriously want to let The Post know and which would probably result in the fairest assessment of the situation, including the possibility of a airing in print, would be to contact the ombudsman, Deborah Howell. It's very easy. Just click on this link (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/deborah+howell/)and you'll be taken to a submission page.

There is also Letters to the Editor, which on Sunday runs a whole page of usually well-written snarky reader opinions about Post stories. The risk there is that if whoever chooses the letters doesn't think much of soccer, or the issue, or even worse, thinks we are a bunch of whiny geeks, then either the letter doesn't get printed or a whiny one gets to print just to make us look silly and petulant.

People can also e-mail Nakamura directly, but a number on the forum have already reported having done so, with the result that it verified their view of Nakamura's mind-set, There also has been no apparent change to him reporting a complete picture as a result of these attempts.

Fisher's occasionally related blogs and on-line chats are another place to go directly at the source. To what avail, I haven't a clue. Fisher seems pretty good at writing responses (when he does) that remind me of the hand's up gesture of a player trying to indicate to the ref "I didn't foul".

And then there's BigSoccer, where we can piss and moan to our finger's content. That's the one most choose, and will be my route until something happens that causes me to click on Howell's link.

If we want to have any chance of influence at The Post, I think when the next triggering story comes along we should use this thread to plan a coordinated response to Howell's in-box. A number of closely timed, well presented, fact-accurate points of view to her might result in her investigating and then printing a response in The Post.

Over everything else, I agree that we should leave Steve's blog out of this. I didn't earlier and was one of the shit-stirrers there about Nakamura and The Post, but I will stay off of that subject there from now on.

[apqjr]

Wonderful post highlander!

[Eastern Bear]

In defense of Goff, the blog is not journalism. Journalism is the finished product, vetted by editors and held to a standard of truth (ideally) that is fairly understood from outlet to outlet.

The purpose of a blog in this case is to serve the community (i.e., BS soccer loonies). I suppose the papers encourage this activity to prop up dwindling readership and ad revenue, but as far as I can see it, it is a courtesy that I am thankful for.

If any crustiness made it into the print format you might have an argument about fairness and journalistic standards, but it is just a blog. I don't want to slavishly support every word that emerges from his laptop, but I am continually amazed at the access we have to a team that we support. Were that source to dry up, we would be much less well off.

I would still disagree. If Goff is doing work for either McDonald's or the Post and slam dunking customers like he was, it's not a good way to keep customers. Especially in a time when new media forms are emerging. I remember Goff taking swipes at other blogger types, including Dyson. If it wasn't for the brand that the Post has developed, Goff would not get the access he has today.

[Stan Collins]

I would still disagree. If Goff is doing work for either McDonald's or the Post and slam dunking customers like he was, it's not a good way to keep customers. Especially in a time when new media forms are emerging. I remember Goff taking swipes at other blogger types, including Dyson. If it wasn't for the brand that the Post has developed, Goff would not get the access he has today. There's no comparison between those businesses. McDonald's isn't expected to post on its menu every customer's gripe about its product or service (or in this case, different products or services delivered by someone other than you but who may have a business alliance. It would be like coming to McDonald's and posting one's complaints about Chipotle all over the walls). In fact, this could be a good example of the double-standard at work--why can McDonald's get away with "Don't like it? Don't come here!" (They don't even have to say if for you to know it's true.) But Goff can't.

There was a great article written not too long ago about Andrew Sullivan's decision not to take comments--taken after a poll of the readership, no less, voted against it 60/40. Article said that comments sections reveal the "dirty underbelly" of blogging. Comments are often invective or redundant, and typically useless--yet addictive.

Even YouTube, paragon of Web 2.0 democracy, now automatically removes comments that get a certain number of "thumbs down" so you don't have to see them and respond to the idiocy therein. This is something that if I had my way BigSoccer would do as well. (I've made the recommendation, but haven't found the language, if there is any, to get it any traction.)

[mcontento]

There's no comparison between those businesses. McDonald's isn't expected to post on its menu every customer's gripe about its product or service (or in this case, different products or services delivered by someone other than you but who may have a business alliance. It would be like coming to McDonald's and posting one's complaints about Chipotle all over the walls). In fact, this could be a good example of the double-standard at work--why can McDonald's get away with "Don't like it? Don't come here!" (They don't even have to say if for you to know it's true.) But Goff can't.

There was a great article written not too long ago about Andrew Sullivan's decision not to take comments--taken after a poll of the readership, no less, voted against it 60/40. Article said that comments sections reveal the "dirty underbelly" of blogging. Comments are often invective or redundant, and typically useless--yet addictive.

Even YouTube, paragon of Web 2.0 democracy, now automatically removes comments that get a certain number of "thumbs down" so you don't have to see them and respond to the idiocy therein. This is something that if I had my way BigSoccer would do as well. (I've made the recommendation, but haven't found the language, if there is any, to get it any traction.)


Couple of things in response to that.

Yes it would be unwise to compare him to McDonalds, McDonalds has built a strong reputation for its business and has a foundation to be able not to care if people don't come, Goff has a few hundred loyal readers and isn't in the position to piss them off. Could you imagine McDonalds being as succefful as it is if Ray Kroc told customers he didn't give a crap what they thought back in the 50s?

Also I think as a professional he shouldn't get into the business of the sniping at his collegues. He should just have posted he won't respond to any comments attacking them and left it at that. Even as much of a dickhead that Fischer is, he should have still stayed above it. Imagine in your work if you were meeting with one of your clients and they started saying how they hated one of your collegues. If you had any ethics you wouldn't join them in the bashing, you may not defend them but you'd probably just try to get out of the uncomfortable situation by "not commenting" on it.

Lastly my main problem with him is his often holier than thou approach he takes to his readers when he snipes at them for comments or questions. His favorite tactic in attacking readers is to write something to the effect of "What don't you understand about what I wrote?", or "Was I unclear?!?" Both of which are another way of saying "are you too stupid to understand me?"

I know that most of us have run into stupid posters here on Big Soccer and when we do we don't hold back sometimes. But we're also all here on our own volition and are not paid representatives of the organization, let alone professional writers for that organization. Also not the case for you or I but most here also hide behind screen names and don't have their personal names associated with what they say. Goff should be wiser knowing it is HIS name that comes across as an asshole to his readers not some random "RBfan15".

And sometimes Goff IS unclear. A better tactic would be to respond with "what I was trying to say is X" and explain in different terms what he typed so other readers who may not "get it" can be on board. There's quite a few United fans where English isn't their first language so he should acknowledge that and be ready for it. Any soccer writer in the US should be prepared for that fact and be able to change their message if it is unclear to help people better understand what they say.

Also while Goff may be a very minor soccer celebrity, he is replaceable. I doubt if he got hit by a Metro Bus tomorrow that the Post would all of a sudden not cover soccer anymore. They'd find someone else to fill the place because they know there is a market for it and strong demand by United fans. We replace the President and the Pope, so anyone can be replaced.

I think he is often too full of himself, and needs to check that. Even when the great Pompey conquered "Asia" and returned in triumph a slave walked behind him in the parade and said "Remember you are only a man" so that he never forgets his place among other citizens. Whenever I see a politician/celebrity/business owner etc think too highly of themselves I think they all need a lesson in citizenship as Pompey was given.

[Bolivianfuego]

I'll agree, goff at times can come off like a serious D bag. Whether he has the right to be one............ i dunno.

[CHICO13]

I just don't think a writers standards should change if he's writing an article or running a blog. And as far as Fisher trying to defend Nakamura, that's just laughable. Nakamura's basically a mouthpiece for the Fenty administration. Fisher's argument that Nakamura has done nothing unethical is suspect at best. Any high school journalism student can write and repeat what's been fed to him, the true investgative reporter delves deeper into the story. I wonder what Woodward and Bernstein would think about this whole Fenty/Nakamura scenario?

[Stan Collins]

Couple of things in response to that.

Yes it would be unwise to compare him to McDonalds, McDonalds has built a strong reputation for its business and has a foundation to be able not to care if people don't come, Goff has a few hundred loyal readers and isn't in the position to piss them off. Could you imagine McDonalds being as succefful as it is if Ray Kroc told customers he didn't give a crap what they thought back in the 50s?I think you missed my point here, which is that McDonald's doesn't have to tell people it doesn't give a crap what people think, because it's understood. The food is cheap and easy, and it ain't supposed to be all that good. I imagine that's been the case almost from day 1, and it's certainly precisely what grew the business to the ludicrous levels it's at today.

But is Morton's of Chicago all that different? The standards are a lot higher, but are they posting their complaints on the wall?

Sure, at Morton's, you have the right to expect that if you have a problem with the service, management, in order to uphold those high standards, will address it. . . in private. No one expects they have the right to stand up and say at high voice how crappy they think the steak is, let alone are they going to air at the restaurant all their gripes with the bartender.

Lastly my main problem with him is his often holier than thou approach he takes to his readers when he snipes at them for comments or questions. His favorite tactic in attacking readers is to write something to the effect of "What don't you understand about what I wrote?", or "Was I unclear?!?" Both of which are another way of saying "are you too stupid to understand me?" I can understand this. I mean, I can understand his position too, since comments tried to berate him for taking the exact opposite stance on the issue of reporting stadium news than the one he really holds. But I also have seen that he's been dismissive when he could be diplomatic.

But it's hard. It's the same impulse that makes us want to go off on people around here. I realize that a professional ideally should be held to higher standards than that (and I think 80 or 90% of the time Goff manages to hold that standard) but the impulse is strong.

[Eastern Bear]

I just don't think a writers standards should change if he's writing an article or running a blog. And as far as Fisher trying to defend Nakamura, that's just laughable. Nakamura's basically a mouthpiece for the Fenty administration. Fisher's argument that Nakamura has done nothing unethical is suspect at best. Any high school journalism student can write and repeat what's been fed to him, the true investgative reporter delves deeper into the story. I wonder what Woodward and Bernstein would think about this whole Fenty/Nakamura scenario?

This gets to the point that bothers me. Nakamura, Fisher, and Goff all represent a brand (The Washington Post). This, the paper cannot deny. When one of them damages the brand by acting as a mouthpiece for the City or just being a prick, the brand is damaged.

I'm in sales and my customers ask me questions that are often difficult to answer (sometimes about colleagues, products, or proprietary company info). Many times, I would love to respond the way Goff does. The LAST thing I would EVER do is attack them personally, Goff seems to cross that line. It makes me not want to buy his product and I think others feel the same way. His 'product' isn't exactly the hottest thing. An attitude like his and an alternative supplier like Big Soccer or another blog could render him irrelevant.

[asitis]

The LAST thing I would EVER do is attack them personally, Goff seems to cross that line. It makes me not want to buy his product and I think others feel the same way. His 'product' isn't exactly the hottest thing. An attitude like his and an alternative supplier like Big Soccer or another blog could render him irrelevant.

Do you really think BS could be a substitute for Goff? Don't get me wrong, I love BS and spend way too much time reading the various opinions. They've made me laugh and they've made me mad, but most of the time it's just opinions.

Goff provides info we just don't get anywhere else. I just don't see him being replaced that easily. Yes, he does get snarky at times, but we all do. If I got rid of all my friends who were smart a$$es, I wouldn't have any friends. And my wife would have dumped me years ago.

asitis

[CHICO13]

Do you really think BS could be a substitute for Goff? Don't get me wrong, I love BS and spend way too much time reading the various opinions They've made me laugh and they've made me mad, but most of the time it's just opinions.

Goff provides info we just don't get anywhere else. I just don't see him being replaced that easily. Yes, he does get snarky at times, but we all do. If I got rid of all my friends who were smart a$$es, I wouldn't have any friends. And my wife would have dumped me years ago.

asitis

Like I said in my initial post on Goff, I appreciate his contributions, his coverage of United and all the inside breaking info he provides. (A little known fact is that WACA Radio 1540 AM breaks alot of news before Goff does. They broke the Veron non-signing and the Carvallo and Peralta signings) and Goff's writings on everything else that doesn't include MLS. I know fans in other cities would kill for the coverage we get and that is evidenced by his expanding blog vistors from across the USA. But in that same vein he has a professional duty to uphold. His employer has always been held to higher standards and rightfully so. The Washington Post has always been one of the most respected news outlets in the country. That was made possible by the Grahams and countless others like Woodward, Bernstein and Bradlee.

The fact that Nakamura gives the Post a black eye and is defended instead of investigated by his superiors on grounds of ethics leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm pretty sure every poster on this forum wants a stadium built at Poplar Point. My whole contention with the reporting in the Post is that it gives the residents of DC a less than complete and objective picture of the facts of this issue. The reporting is slanted and biased and incomplete. Not what the founders of that institution had in mind when they brought that newspaper to national prominence.

[asitis]

Like I said in my initial post on Goff, I appreciate his contributions, his coverage of United and all the inside breaking info he provides. (A little known fact is that WACA Radio 1540 AM breaks alot of news before Goff does. They broke the Veron non-signing and the Carvallo and Peralta signings) and Goff's writings on everything else that doesn't include MLS. I know fans in other cities would kill for the coverage we get and that is evidenced by his expanding blog vistors from across the USA. But in that same vein he has a professional duty to uphold. His employer has always been held to higher standards and rightfully so. The Washington Post has always been one of the most respected news outlets in the country. That was made possible by the Grahams and countless others like Woodward, Bernstein and Bradlee.

The fact that Nakamura gives the Post a black eye and is defended instead of investigated by his superiors on grounds of ethics leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm pretty sure every poster on this forum wants a stadium built at Poplar Point. My whole contention with the reporting in the Post is that it gives the residents of DC a less than complete and objective picture of the facts of this issue. The reporting is slanted and biased and incomplete. Not what the founders of that institution had in mind when they brought that newspaper to national prominence.

I agree with just about everything you've said. On the surface, Nakamura seems to have crossed an ethical/professional boundry. Trying to be as objective as I can, and knowing what I do, I believe the Post could do a better job of presenting a balanced account of the stadium at Poplar Point.

All I'm saying is that IMO we need to be a little more tolerant of Goff's warts.

asitis

[CHICO13]

I agree with just about everything you've said. On the surface, Nakamura seems to have crossed an ethical/professional boundry. Trying to be as objective as I can, and knowing what I do, I believe the Post could do a better job of presenting a balanced account of the stadium at Poplar Point.

All I'm saying is that IMO we need to be a little more tolerant of Goff's warts.

asitis

I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of his readers like him just fine. Except for a couple of us here on BigSoccer that think he's a douchebag, he's well loved and accepted.

[Eastern Bear]

Do you really think BS could be a substitute for Goff? Don't get me wrong, I love BS and spend way too much time reading the various opinions. They've made me laugh and they've made me mad, but most of the time it's just opinions.

Goff provides info we just don't get anywhere else. I just don't see him being replaced that easily. Yes, he does get snarky at times, but we all do. If I got rid of all my friends who were smart a$$es, I wouldn't have any friends. And my wife would have dumped me years ago.

asitis

Please note the word 'could' in my post. Not there yet, but 'could' be. There's a guy from the Examiner that has a blog that's not too bad. Certainly not as good as Goff's yet, but who knows?