VfB Stuttgart-Deutscher Meister 07 Thread 07/08 part 2 [R]

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

In short:

Gomez was great again, could've gotten a hattrick at the end and saved us a point, but who can blame him after another two goals? He's simply great.

da Silva was poor today, Hitz I though did alright. Pardo was dissappointing.

The defense was very poor, Beck particularly. And of course Schaefer. I really think we'll need a new keeper for next season.


So we may well have blown the 3 point lead over Leverkusen, lets just hope they don't win tomorrow but they will be big favourites against Hertha at home. And if Wolfsburg win then the Intertoto Cup spot is also doubtable, since that would mean that a win for Wolfsburg at home to us in the next round would give them 6th place ahead of us, with us needing to rely on other scores come the last day. This is all hypothetical but we'll just see what happens.

I'm very frustrated, Dortmund doesn't even have anything to play for and they still beat us! I said it would be tough, I was right.

Now we gotta get our heads down for the last two games and assure that we qualify for Europe.

[footyfan1]

I'm very frustrated, Dortmund doesn't even have anything to play for and they still beat us! I said it would be tough, I was right.


Dude, we did have something to play for. We were not mathematically out of the relegation race. That win ensured our safety.

Plus, I'm sure the BVB players got tired of hearing about how they had not scored against VfB at home in the past six years...... ;)

[Fußballgott]

After a very long season we have one match in Wolfsburg.
Schäfer, what an idiot.

Anyway footyfan, congrats to BVB for qualifing for next years Bundesliga aswell as Uefa-Cup (not everyone can beat Jena). Maybe your squad is better than you give them credit for. Hope they don't start planning holidays now. We might need their help next week against Wolfsburg. Any news if Doll stays in charge next year?

[footyfan1]

After a very long season we have one match in Wolfsburg.

Good luck there. I'm sure last night's match was just a small mis-step.


Schäfer, what an idiot.

If you mean on that Frei free-kick, I have to agree. Anyone who watches Alex Frei take free-kicks knows when he takes free kicks from the left wing, he goes to his right most of the time. I don't know what the hell Schäfer was thinking. All I can tell you guys is this. Most good keepers have a "down season" every now and then. I do know that Schäfer is basically a good keeper. I don't know what the hell has happened to him this year, but I think you guys shouldn't give up on him after one season. Sure, bring in some competition for the #1 job, but don't give up on him just yet.



Anyway footyfan, congrats to BVB for qualifing for next years Bundesliga as well as Uefa-Cup (not everyone can beat Jena). Maybe your squad is better than you give them credit for. Hope they don't start planning holidays now. We might need their help next week against Wolfsburg. Any news if Doll stays in charge next year?

I don't usually blame the squad more than I blame Doll for lack of competent planning. However, the squad shares in the blame for this season. What you saw from BVB last night was an effort level we've only seen five or six times this season. And I think that had very little to do with Doll. Injured top-scorer Mladen Petric called for the team to fight and give something back to the fans after this dismal Bundesliga season and it seems the team responded to that.

We will not roll over for Wolfsburg in that final match of the season. The team really owes the fans and they know it. Plus, the team should want revenge for the 4-0 thrashing we took in Wolfsburg right before the winter break.

As far as Doll goes, BVB continues to stress that they are not talking to and have not talked to any other coaches. However, I think Doll is history.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Schäfer, what an idiot.

Schaefer should buy the book 'Setting Up Walls For Dummies'. 2 weeks ago he put in a guy too little and allowed van Bommel to simply curl his shot AROUND the wall, this week he put in one guy too much and was therefore unable to see where the shot was actually. That is, of course, until he saw it in the back of the net...

[Fußballgott]

Most good keepers have a "down season" every now and then. I do know that Schäfer is basically a good keeper. I don't know what the hell has happened to him this year, but I think you guys shouldn't give up on him after one season. Sure, bring in some competition for the #1 job, but don't give up on him just yet.

In the beginning I agrued similar as I also judged Nürnberg's Schäfer highly. But now his performance has been consistent bad the whole season and I don't even think Schäfer's problem are all related football anymore. It's like he had a mental breakdown in November or December. Therefore I don't think Veh can really judge if it's safe to start another season with Schäfer. The team-psychologist would be a better bet if we had one. I think Schäfer got until the end of seasion from Veh to now prove his ability. As that didn't work I think he'll have to go especially as he would only be an option for about 2 years anyway until Ulreich can take over. So we need someone who can perform now. For Schäfer a small break from football may be best.

Of course before the game Heldt still declared he wanted to go into next season with Schäfer. Maybe Schäfer will stay and prove me wrong, again. As I was very euphoric before this season I don't give too much about my judgement anymore.

[footyfan1]

In the beginning I agrued similar as I also judged Nürnberg's Schäfer highly. But now his performance has been consistent bad the whole season and I don't even think Schäfer's problem are all related football anymore. It's like he had a mental breakdown in November or December. Therefore I don't think Veh can really judge if it's safe to start another season with Schäfer. The team-psychologist would be a better bet if we had one. I think Schäfer got until the end of seasion from Veh to now prove his ability. As that didn't work I think he'll have to go especially as he would only be an option for about 2 years anyway until Ulreich can take over. So we need someone who can perform now. For Schäfer a small break from football may be best.

Of course before the game Heldt still declared he wanted to go into next season with Schäfer. Maybe Schäfer will stay and prove me wrong, again. As I was very euphoric before this season I don't give too much about my judgement anymore.


Remember, I backed him too. But I think the true Rafael Schaefer isn't as good as he was for Nuernberg last season or as bad as he's been for VfB this season. Sometimes it takes a player a year to settle.

I remind all the BVB fans screaming to get rid of Weidenfeller that Jens Lehmann had the worst season I've ever seen a goalkeeper have in 1999-2000. We stuck with him and were rewarded. Schaefer is not Lehmann, but the point is, you don't give up on a keeper who has done well after one bad season.

But I did also advocate bringing someone in to push him for the #1 job.....

[nanni]

it seems as if we will be letting go of Ricardo Osorio its a Shame but if he isnt Playing at his fullest then maybe we should sell him and get some one new.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Well, a couple of hourse away from the game that could potentially decide what we do next season.

Since our last match is at home to Bielefeld, which given our home form i'm pretty sure we'll win, and we're currently 3 points ahead of 6th and 7th place, that by my calculations means that a point today should be enough at the end of the day to keep us in the Uefa Cup spots. But of course if Wolfsburg win, that will mean that they'll be in front of us going into the last day, potentially Leverkusen will be too if they win today, and then we could end up without even an intertoto cup spot. So the match is absolutely key.

Wolfsburg are on good form currently and we've been shit away pretty much all season, but for some reason i'm still confident that the boys will pull their socks up and get at least a draw. I sure hope so.

Tasci's season is over by the way after the injury in Dortmund. A poor one for him, nowhere near the form he showed last year, but he's still young with enormour levels of potential so I trust he'll come back renewed and improved for next year. Good luck, Serdar!

As for the Osorio thing, I haven't heard about that, where'd you hear that giovanni?

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Schaefer just lost his last chance imo.

Another major ******** up by him leads to the 1-0 for Wolfsburg. What an absolutely pathetic goalkeeper, today was confirmation that we will need a new keeper for next season, I don't want to see Schaefer between the posts ever again.

And Meira now with the red card, what an idiot :(

It looks like everything is going against us, let's just keep our fingers crossed for Rostock.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

3-0 now... well, we ********ed our whole chance up.

As is stands we'd be 7th, equal on points with the 4th, 5th and 6th placed sides, so we'd have to win next week and hope one of the 3 in front of us don't manage. Which would still leave us with a strong chance. So we'll just have to see. Although if Rostock scored against Leverkusen again then we'd be in frotn of Bayer, which would give me a lot of confidence heading into the last day.

But what can I say, we had things in our own hands, now it looks like we'll need to rely on other sides to scores on top of us beating Bielefeld, which is not a foregone conclusion.

I'm sad now, for the first time I might be having to come to terms with the possibility of us not being in Europe next season, as right now that may well be the case.

[Fußballgott]

Good luck there. I'm sure last night's match was just a small mis-step.

Well no, I'm afraid it wasn't. :(


The team really owes the fans and they know it. Plus, the team should want revenge for the 4-0 thrashing we took in Wolfsburg right before the winter break.

Good to hear! So BVB keeps Europe's door open for us and we make sure Nürnberg still have a chance. Quess FCN just has to beat Schalke now. :)


I don't usually blame the squad more than I blame Doll for lack of competent planning. However, the squad shares in the blame for this season. What you saw from BVB last night was an effort level we've only seen five or six times this season. And I think that had very little to do with Doll. Injured top-scorer Mladen Petric called for the team to fight and give something back to the fans after this dismal Bundesliga season and it seems the team responded to that.


In Stuttgart we have the strange situation that when Hitzlsperger is in form and fights the entire team fights. When he is absent or walks around like not giving a damn (like mostly this year) then the entire team copies his attitude. Quess team hierarchy really is important. Maybe Petric is ready for some more responsibility?



As far as Doll goes, BVB continues to stress that they are not talking to and have not talked to any other coaches. However, I think Doll is history.

Hope your right. Since I've grown up watching German football in the 90s I just hate having any bad tacticians in the Bundesliga.


But I did also advocate bringing someone in to push him for the #1 job.....

But will having an unsecure position make him play better or make him nervous like this season? Also there are more general doubts if he is the right man to play for Stuttgart:

On incoming crosses he mostly stays back. Apart from the centerbacks we have very few players who are good in the air in our squad (also called Heldt's 11 gnomes). So we need someone who can control the penalty area. Just remember last season when Lucio and van Buyten pushed forward and Lahm was left alone in the middle. Kahn IMO has a similar weakness.

A thing I liked when first watching Schäfer is that when the defense is advanced he often acted like a sweeper behind them similar to Hildebrand. But of course in ballcontrol and distribution Schäfer is more akin to Willie Schulz and Hildebrand to Beckenbauer. VfB needs a more modern, complete keeper.

Having two new keepers would also push Ulreich out of the first squad. Ulreich is regarded as the greatest goalkeeper talent ever to come from VfB and IMO with more strength to dominate the penalty area would already make a decent Bundesliga keeper. So if we get a goalkeeper in addition to Schäfer we lose any opportunity to bloody Ulreich in the Bundesliga and even if both experianced keepers start to perform in about 2 years they'll probably still will have to make way.

As basically our entire backline performed badly Heldt might feel the need to simply change 'something'. Although given that Veh said they are looking for a centerback one of our centerbacks might be going.

[footyfan1]

Well, according to this Kicker article, (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/200098/) Schaefer has been given the rest of the week off and will not be on Stuttgart's roster against Bielefeld. I believe Heldt says they have to decide what to do with him.

He's worthless on the market now.

Perhaps he should try to find his way back to FCN. Perhaps he's one of those guys who can only play his best at one club........

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Yes, I was about to post that article.

Schaefer at VfB is finished! He got a second chance, then played a big part in our losses against both Wolfsburg and BVB. Absolutely pathetic keeper, and I don't think we'll ever see him play for us again. Thankfully. Ulreich will start the last match, Alexander Stolz will be the subsitute keeper.

We can try and get rid of him in the summer but I don't know who'd go for him...

Ulreich probably won't be our starter next season though, he's a big talent but still very young and inexperienced and not quite good enough yet, so we'll have to buy a new keeper this summer the way I see it. Rumours of Enke, who would be my top choice, but apparently the favourite at the moment is none other than Jens Lehmann! Would I be pleased with him? Well, he's a huge name, but he's very old, at 38, we could probably only use him for 1 season, 2 seasons max, if we bought him, and he also hasn't plyed much recently. So I don't know if he'd be the optimum choice, but nevertheless he has been an excellent keeper and I think would be a good solution in the short term, also he could be a good mentor to Ulreich until Sven is ready. So i'd be pleased if we got Lehmann. But i'd be more pleased if we got Enke. Hildebrand seems impossible.

---------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, Meira has been banned for the last match of the season, and for the first match of next season. Well, 3 red cards in one year, that's pretty pathetic, and we'll have to review whether he is fit to be our captain next season. With Tasci also out for the season it looks like we may have to start Pischorn against Bielefeld.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

But yeah, we must now focus on the Bielefeld game. We are in 7th now, we need another side ahead of us to slip up, but we're within striking distance of three teams - I believe that if we can beat Bielefeld we have a good chance of making the Intertoto Cup at least. It's the most important match of the season, and we'll need to win it - and it won't be easy, Bielefeld of course are still fighting relegation themselves.


We must get the three points and hope!

I've already decided to purge 4 days of my studies here in Sheffield to make a last-minute trip back to Stuttgart for the game. The team needs all the support they can get at this point and I will certainly be in the stadium come Saturday.

Let's get our heads down, work hard, play hard, and save this horrible season!

[nanni]

What do you guys think will happen with Osorio?

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

I see no reason to sell him unless a club came in with the right sum of money. If we get offered 3 or more million for him, sell him, otherwise, no need to, he's a solid player to have on the side.

[footyfan1]

I see no reason to sell him (Osorio) unless a club came in with the right sum of money. If we get offered 3 or more million for him, sell him, otherwise, no need to, he's a solid player to have on the side.

Nice assessment. Totally agree.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Well, i'm in Stuttgart now ahead of tomorrow's decider.

First of all with some of the latest transfer rumours:
Voronin and even Klasnic have been linked to us in recent days, it seems that Heldt and Veh really do wanna get a big-name striker signed for next season early on. Both would be big buys, i'd prefer to have Klasnic out of the two but Vornin is the more reliable rumour at the moment.

Also, Loew nominated his 26 person preliminary EM side today:
- Gomez and Hitzlsperfer are both, unsuprisingly, in the squad.
- Hilbert didn't make the cut, I think it's unfortunate since players like Marko Marin did, so he would've deserved better...
- Hildebrand didn't make the cut, a big shock. I wonder why Lehmann, who hasn't played all season, gets in and Hildebrand doesn't, but that's off topic...

But anyway, now we gotta concentrate on what really matters: the game tomorrow.

Schaefer has been let off from the final week so he thankfully won't be in the squad, Tasci is gonna miss the last game through injury, Meira is banned, Pardo is unfortunately the latest edition to the injury list :( he'll miss the game and also Marica is gonna miss the game through injury in other new news :(

So again, injury problems overcoming us. How will we play:

I'd go with this:

----------------Ulreich
Osorio----Delpierre---Pischorn-----Magnin
-----------------Khedira----------------
---Hilbert--------------------Hitzlsperger
-----------------Basturk
----------Cacau----------Gomez

Kicker has the same team mostly but with this defense:

Beck------Osorio-------Delpierre----Magnin

I guess the idea is they don't want an inexperienced player like Pischorn to start such a tough game, but I think it's necessary to play a natural central defender for this game. A far bigger risk imo would be moving Osorio to central defense, which is not his natural spot. We'll see.

Either way we must win this. It's not a guarantee, Bielefeld will be fighting for their survival, even though they probably won't have to as I don't see FCN beating Schalke. If we do win, I think our chances of making the UI Cup atleast are very high. Leverkusen have to play at home to a really on-form Werder Bremen who want to secure second palce so it'll be hard for them to win, Wolfsburg play away to Dortmund who won't be easy to beat, and Hamburg have an easy game at-home to a ScheissKSC who finished their season 5 matches ago, but HSV are on poor form so who knows. Either way, provided we win, I think our chances are very high.

I'll be heartbroken if we win but the other 3 teams do too and we don't go through.

But who knows all we can do is hope, let's get the win tomorrow! And hopefully the other teams will give us a favour so we finish at least in the top 6. If we could make 5th and a Uefa Cup spot that would be brilliant, but it's unlikely, and we'll just have to see.

[benztown]

I guess the idea is they don't want an inexperienced player like Pischorn to start such a tough game, but I think it's necessary to play a natural central defender for this game. A far bigger risk imo would be moving Osorio to central defense, which is not his natural spot. We'll see.

Actually, according to the Mexican forum, Osorio's natural spot is indeed the central defense.

But he still never played there for Stuttgart, so it would be a gamble.