ussoccer.com - Donovan 35-Goal Chart

[tab5g]

While reading the ynt blog, discovered this:
http://ynt-ussoccer.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html#2248561159944542398

http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_5505026.html

----------
Men's National Team

Re-Live History: Donovan Breaks All-Time Goalscoring Record

CHICAGO (March 10, 2008) - Now that it's 'officially' official that Landon Donovan is the U.S. Men's National Team's all-time leading goalscorer, ussoccer.com is glad to roll out this interactive feature recapping the history of LD's goalscoring account (click the image below). You'll find replays and goal descriptions of each of his 35 strikes, as well as game information, links to match reports, and photos of each now-historic match. Basically, lots of goodies.
------------

http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_5505026.html#


(yes, this could have been placed in the "LD Fact Thread" and if someone wants to move this there, that would be fine.)

[GooolGolGool]

By PK? heh I want to know how many scored by Landon on PKs.

[FC Tallavana]

Wow!!!

By Country
Grenada - 1
Panama - 1
Korea - 2
USA - 31
4 Different Countries


That is extremely worrying. That he has only scored "away" goals in two games -- and they were at Grenada and Panama -- is quite depressing.

[tab5g]

How often does anyone score "away" goals for their NT?

And in the case of the USMNT -- (especially the MLS-based players) I would think the majority of their minutes (and any other stat) would likely be from matches played on US soil.

that's just where the US prefers to play games (or has done so primarily for the last 8 years).

but yes, 4 non-US soil goals out of 35 total does look "worrying".

[FC Tallavana]

How often does anyone score "away" goals?

And in the case of the USMNT -- (especially the MLS-based players) I would think the majority of their minutes (and any other stat) would likely be on US soil.

that's just where the US prefers to play games (or has done so primarily for the last 8 years).

but yes, 4 non-US soil goals out of 35 total does look "worrying".


We've played enough road games for it to be troubling that Donovan has only scored at Grenada and Panama. That, I'm sure of.

[dsp87260]

We've played enough road games for it to be troubling that Donovan has only scored at Grenada and Panama. That, I'm sure of.

Why aren't you counting the 2 goals in Korea? They weren't on US soil...

[tab5g]

We've played enough road games for it to be troubling that Donovan has only scored at Grenada and Panama. That, I'm sure of.


of course.

but in the bigger context, how often does the USMNT (or any NT) score "away" goals?

the US tends to play a lot of minutes at home (relative to the "away" games it has played since Donovan has been with the team).

this "troubling" issue is not Donovan-specific, i do not think.

I'm sure he's got a better goals/minute average at home, compared to his goals/minute average while playing on the road with the USMNT.

but I'd argue that is likely true for most NT players around the world (especially those that lead their NT in scoring). i'd like to see the data if anyone has it.

would it be great if LD had 31 home goals and 31 (or 21 or 11 and not "just 4") away goals? certainly, but we need to look at the context if we're going to analyze "stats" and start to "worry" about anything.

[alocksley]

Wow!!!




That is extremely worrying. That he has only scored "away" goals in two games -- and they were at Grenada and Panama -- is quite depressing.

Nonsense. The US just doesn't play that many away games, and plays more defensively when it does. Big tournaments like the Gold Cup, where Donovan has done a lot of damage, have been held in the US for financial reasons. Also, whether he has scored or not, Donovan has played extremely well on the road during World Cup qualifying, particularly in 2005, where he seemed to carry the team.

[giffenbone]

Why aren't you counting the 2 goals in Korea? They weren't on US soil...

Because in his previous post he said two "away goals".

The two goals in Korea are not away, but neutral.

But yes, the two goals in Korea are road goals.

Away and road have different meaning.

[dsp87260]

Because in his previous post he said two "away goals".

The two goals in Korea are not away, but neutral.

But yes, the two goals in Korea are road goals.

Away and road have different meaning.

I know that....but I don't see much sense differentiating between "away" and "neutral".....especially when the worry seems to be the lack of goal scoring away from home (which is both away and neutral).

It may not make much of a difference in the final analysis, but those two "neutral" goals should be included when factoring all this and deciding whether to be worried or not.

[appoo]

this is just off the top of my head...

WCQ 01 - played just one road match, @ Jamaice, no goals for USA playing a seriously young team. Never got into the match @ Saprissa.

2002 Friendlies - missed a sitter vs Italy, came close to scoring a least once in Germany, don't recall his play @ Ireland

WC 2002 - 2 goals

2003 - ConFed Cup? no goals, assisted Beasley goal against Turkey. We didn't score again I think

2004 - @ Holland. Sucked ass. Didn't score, @ Grenada scored, maybe an assist as well.

2004 WC Q semi-finals, @ Jamaica game-tying assist. @ Panama, goal. @ ??? - don't remember.

2005 WC Q - @ Mexico, sucked, got an assist, @ TnT - assist??, @ Guatemala, Don't Remember, @ Costa Rica - DNP, we were already qualified

2006 - Let's not talk about that

2007 - missed matches in South America, Switzerland and South Africa due to injury/club comittments.

[giffenbone]

I know that....but I don't see much sense differentiating between "away" and "neutral".....especially when the worry seems to be the lack of goal scoring away from home (which is both away and neutral).

It may not make much of a difference in the final analysis, but those two "neutral" goals should be included when factoring all this and deciding whether to be worried or not.

I was just answering your question on why he didn't count the korea goals.

[dsp87260]

I was just answering your question on why he didn't count the korea goals.

...and I was just explaining why I asked the question. ;)

[Homa]

I agree that goals in "neutral" environments are here essentially the same as away goals.

I have looked quick and dirty at the DFB's database for Klose and Völlers away or neutral goals. They don't differentiate between away and home goals so I had to count them, so there may be some counting errors. ^^

Klose 37 goals overall, 14 in away or neutral matches (I did count the WC matches in Germany as home games)
Völler 47 goals overall, 21 in away or neutral matches.

If anybody else likes to use the database (f.e. to get the goals of Müller, Seeler, Klinsmann or Ballack^^), this link should do http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500397
It should be the English version of the DB.

[sidefootsitter]

Der Bomber didn't play too many games against Panama and Grenada.

But 2/3 home-to-total goal ratio seems reasonable.

[FC Tallavana]

It can be justified as being normal if that's what you want to do.

I just find it troubling that we are having to make a "it could be normal" argument for someone who has put up some anything-but-normal numbers during his career.

Hell, Eddie Johnson has scored more away goals than Landon Donovan. I'm going to assume quite a few players have. To me, that's not a good sign.

Landon is no doubt the best player to ever wear the shirt. But he's going to have to prove he can do it outside of his comfort zone before I'll ever think he realized his full potential.

[FC Tallavana]

Had he scored the Korea goals against Korea then I would have included them.

[dsp87260]

Had he scored the Korea goals against Korea then I would have included them.

But what's the difference?....it's still not US Soil (in his "comfort zone")

[FC Tallavana]

But what's the difference?....it's still not US Soil (in his "comfort zone")

The difference was that he wasn't playing in front of hostile crowds away from home.

You keep asking me what's the difference? Well, just what is the difference to you?

Even if you include 2002, then he has still only scored 4 of his 35 on foreign soil. That's not a good number for him, and I'd wager he would agree with me.

[dsp87260]

The difference was that he wasn't playing in front of hostile crowds away from home.

You keep asking me what's the difference? Well, just what is the difference to you?

Even if you include 2002, then he has still only scored 4 of his 35 on foreign soil. That's not a good number for him, and I'd wager he would agree with me.

And "hostile crowds" make that much of a difference? What bout all the "hostile crowds" (cheering for the opposition) that the USMNT faces here in the US....I see those "hostile crowds" dismissed as a factor all the time here on BS.

....not to mention that the crowds for those games were fairly hostile...the Koreans that made up the majority of the crowds for our games were certainly not rooting for us...quite the opposite in fact (they were worried that we might take their spot in the later rounds since everyone expected Portugal to get one of the spots going into the tournament).