Who is the world's best defender?

[canadianscout]

In no real order I am just going to list who I think are the world's best. Most players i see listed are central defense, but my selection varies and covers all areas of defence.

Rio Ferdinand
Nenamja Vidic
Lucio
Eric Abidal
Daniel Alves
Carles Puyol
Alessandro Nesta
Phillip Lahm
Kolo Toure
Jamie Carragher

[thebigman]

jihn terry is not a top 10 defender in the world

hes slow, a bad sportsman and now injury prone

i would pick the following over john 'the canal barge' terry

toure, ferdinand, gallas, vidic, carragher, agger, nesta, carvalho, alex, puyol, campbell off the top of my head

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Whenever you are ready Perú FC. Feel free to keep sidestepping the issue because you will eventually end right back here regardless. It would be far easier if you saved yourself the additional effort and time.

[Perú FC]

Whenever you are ready Perú FC. Feel free to keep sidestepping the issue because you will eventually end right back here regardless. It would be far easier if you saved yourself the additional effort and time.
Sure, when the arguments fail, nothing is better than the irony ignoring answers before to yield in "a competence", isn't Teso :p?

[Kazuma]

Truth be told I like Alex but he does things that worries me at times. One of these is when he tries to do something incredibly technical that can lead to the following: He manages to get away from the attacking player it's impressive but he screws up and the next thing I know I'm freaking out at the possibility of a goal being scored.

Terry though, as I stated knows how to keep a defense organized.

[thebigman]

he is still a twat and has the pace of a rocking horse though

[schafer]

Both Alex and Carvalho are better overall defenders and they have far less weaknesses. Were Terry excels is his leadership ability, which some often mistake for organisational ability, but leadership has nothing to do with the quality of a player and is intangible. Terry gets the headlines for his style of play (last ditch tackles/headers) and his aforementioned leadership but that is it. It's the same situation with Vidic versus Ferdinand at Man Utd. The former gets all of the headlines and is often mentioned in these threads by fans of rival clubs. The latter is often forgotten despite clearly being the superior player, being far more important to the play of his club (and indeed country) and his play enabling Vidic to play his natural game.

It has nothing to do with 'mistaking' his leadership ability for organizational ability. He's both an excellent leader and far more adept at organizing the backline than Alex or Carvalho, and when he's out of the line-up the shape of the backline is all over the place at times.

[Twix]

It has nothing to do with 'mistaking' his leadership ability for organizational ability. He's both an excellent leader and far more adept at organizing the backline than Alex or Carvalho, and when he's out of the line-up the shape of the backline is all over the place at times.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Could you elaborate and give examples to when Chelsea's backline has been all over the place without JT?

[schafer]

How did you come to this conclusion?

Could you elaborate and give examples to when Chelsea's backline has been all over the place without JT?

I came to this conclusion by watching Chelsea games with an Alex-Carvalho backline (or Carvalho-Essien last season) and those where Terry has played.

Specific examples are difficult to come up with because Carvalho and Alex are excellent defenders anyhow, so it's not like there is a goal glut in JT's absence. However, I would say the away match against Schalke stands out IIRC, as there were a couple of occasions when Chelsea attempted to play an offside trap and failed and there was also a lack of communication which lead to some awful clearing attempts right back into Schalke's possession. Essien-Terry was by and large much more well organized last season than Essien-Carvalho as well.

One can also see that Alex and Carvalho both seem much quieter on the field than JT (Alex in particular) so it stands to reason that there may be a lack of communication/organization with those two as the CB partnership.

I imagine it would be something like United's backline without Ferdinand. Brown and Vidic are both good defenders in their own right, but neither of them has the presence of mind to focus on both their own game and that of the entire backline. United might not necessarily concede, but I would guess that players would be pulled out of position easier, play players onside more, etc.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I came to this conclusion by watching Chelsea games with an Alex-Carvalho backline (or Carvalho-Essien last season) and those where Terry has played.

Alex/Carvalho is a completely new partnership so there will obviously be some issues while they adjust to each other. Just like it took Carvalho/Terry several seasons to get to their best. Carvalho/Essien was a major problem because (a) neither are that great in the air, and (b) Essien played like shit despite originally being a defender and having lots of experience playing there for all of his clubs and country. So I put it down to a new partnership and one component of the defense playing poorly, not simply the absense of Terry. Note that I have only discussed defenders in this and not the problem with your keepers which obviously has an impact as well.

Specific examples are difficult to come up with because Carvalho and Alex are excellent defenders anyhow, so it's not like there is a goal glut in JT's absence. However, I would say the away match against Schalke stands out IIRC, as there were a couple of occasions when Chelsea attempted to play an offside trap and failed and there was also a lack of communication which lead to some awful clearing attempts right back into Schalke's possession. Essien-Terry was by and large much more well organized last season than Essien-Carvalho as well.

See above.

One can also see that Alex and Carvalho both seem much quieter on the field than JT (Alex in particular) so it stands to reason that there may be a lack of communication/organization with those two as the CB partnership.

None of which has anything to do with the respective qualities of either player. In addition, see above!

I imagine it would be something like United's backline without Ferdinand. Brown and Vidic are both good defenders in their own right, but neither of them has the presence of mind to focus on both their own game and that of the entire backline. United might not necessarily concede, but I would guess that players would be pulled out of position easier, play players onside more, etc.

The key difference in all of this is that Ferdinand is a superior defender who does a hell of a lot more than Terry. Therefore his absence would clearly have more of an impact, notably on the organisation of the defense.

[schafer]

Alex/Carvalho is a completely new partnership so there will obviously be some issues while they adjust to each other. Just like it took Carvalho/Terry several seasons to get to their best. Carvalho/Essien was a major problem because (a) neither are that great in the air, and (b) Essien played like shit despite originally being a defender and having lots of experience playing there for all of his clubs and country. So I put it down to a new partnership and one component of the defense playing poorly, not simply the absense of Terry. Note that I have only discussed defenders in this and not the problem with your keepers which obviously has an impact as well.

And the reason the Alex-Terry partnership hasn't had the same problems? And the Essien-Carvalho partnership lacked organization because Essien is relatively poor in the air? C'mon. Don't you think it's maybe just a little more plausible that the Terry-Essien partnership was more organized because Terry is a better organizer than Carvalho, rather than Essien's 'being poor in the air'?

I don't see why you're so hellbent on attempting to prove that Terry does not organize the defense well. It's fairly easy to see the difference when he's on the pitch vs. when he's absent, even if it is nearly impossible to quantify something like that for debating purposes.

I realize you don't rate Terry, but for you to attempt to deride him for something that is clearly one of his strengths smacks of having an agenda against him.

See above.



None of which has anything to do with the respective qualities of either player. In addition, see above!

:confused: Nor was I debating the respective qualities of any of Chelsea's defenders outside of their organizational skills. And I acknowledged Alex and Carvalho's excellency earlier in the post.

[Twix]

I realize you don't rate Terry, but for you to attempt to deride him for something that is clearly one of his strengths smacks of having an agenda against him.


Terry's clear strengths are his ability in the air, ability to put his body on the line and his obvious will to win and overall leadership qualities.

I wouldn't put organisational skills as one of them. Makelele is the best organiser in Chelsea imo.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I realize you don't rate Terry, but for you to attempt to deride him for something that is clearly one of his strengths smacks of having an agenda against him.

I do rate Terry but I see him for what he is, not what people think he is. All of these claims of him being either Chelsea's best defender or deserving of mention in a thread intended to discuss the best defenders in the world is laughable.

[schafer]

Terry's clear strengths are his ability in the air, ability to put his body on the line and his obvious will to win and overall leadership qualities.

I wouldn't put organisational skills as one of them. Makelele is the best organiser in Chelsea imo.

Meh, I guess your entitled to your opinion, but I would say that the differences in the shape and organization of the backline is based more on Terry's absence than Makelele's (Maka played in the Schalke game, IIRC). Makelele may organize the midfield, but I don't see how he could do even a reasonable job of organizing the defense when he sits in front of it with his back to it.

[schafer]

I do rate Terry but I see him for what he is, not what people think he is. All of these claims of him being either Chelsea's best defender or deserving of mention in a thread intended to discuss the best defenders in the world is laughable.

Based on his injury record over the past two seasons and the fact that he's rarely reached his peak form over that period, I would agree. However, if he can stay fit there's no reason he can't make a claim to be Chelsea's best defender, and it's certainly not so absurd an idea so as for you to label it 'laughable'.

[Twix]

I do rate Terry but I see him for what he is, not what people think he is. All of these claims of him being either Chelsea's best defender or deserving of mention in a thread intended to discuss the best defenders in the world is laughable.
Ummm, who would be in your top 5 CBs?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

From the Premiership I would say Ferdinand, Gallas, Vidic, Carvalho and Agger.

[Twix]

From the Premiership I would say Ferdinand, Gallas, Vidic, Carvalho and Agger.
Agger over Toure, Carragher and Distin??

I agree with the other four but what's with the Agger love?

[The_ChelseaSupporter]

Agger over Toure, Carragher and Distin??

I agree with the other four but what's with the Agger love?

And Toure > Gallas. Terry is better than Gallas and Agger combined as well.
I rate Toure. Best defender in Africa even though he's with Le Arse.

[Massimo_Oddo]

No way in hell that Terry is better than Gallas.