Aliadiere slap vs. Taylor tackle

[AtlantaGunner]

Obviously I'm an Arsenal fan and was horrified after seeing Martin Taylor's tackle on Eduardo. Having gone through something similar (compound fracture, titanium rod, months of rehab, etc.) it really hit home. I have said in other threads that I don't think Taylor did this intentionally. But, I do think this is more than a three match ban. I don't care about his intent. His "ill-timed" tackle maimed another player. If he was truly not trying to get "stuck in" then what was he doing? Why was his tackle so bad? And don't give me the BS about Eduardo was "just too quick for him." That doesn't cut it.

So, today I read that Jeremie Aliadiere's slap of Javier Mascherano has gotten him a four-match ban. I realize he got the extra match for the appeal, but does this make any sense to any reasonable human being on the planet? Aliadiere retaliated for Mascherano grabbing his face and swiped back at him (of course, Mascherano gets nothing for touching a player though). Not a smart move on Aliadiere's part, but a four-match ban? Does this punishment fit the crime? And now it looks as if Taylor may only get a three-match ban. I just don't understand the FA's logic on this, among other things.

Weigh in, please.

[gooner4eva]

arseblog has it right, there needs to be a sliding scale, and also retroactive punishment, this season there could easily have been 10 broken legs if tackles were just a split second earlier.

[antifan]

Slap and Tackle? ;)

[AtlantaGunner]

Slap and Tackle? ;)
My gf doesn't like that so much. Not sure why....

[thebigman]

one was intentional, the other wasnt

thats how it works, u cant ban someone for longer if they diddnt mean to hurt the guy!

[billyireland]

Although it has to be pointed out that the Aliadiere case is an utter farce, to be honest. If he deserved the red card, then so did Mascherano by default - they both did the same thing, and while Aliadiere's was a little more aggressive (though hardly a KO attempt) Mascherano was the first to act without provocation from Jeremie, iirc. Of course, the fact that the referee claims to have seen the entire incident (a blatant and laughably obvious lie to cover his ineptitude) just makes it more ridiculous - Lee Mason should be punished for this conduct (not the bad call, but lying about it and/or failing to 'right his wrongs') but as per usual the referees are made infallible by the FA, so he is pretty much allowed to make what he wants of the situation.

Boro's outrage at this being called a 'frivilous' appeal is completely justified as well. If Mascherano was not retroactively handed the same sentence as Aliadiere it would scream of hypocrisy, but what has happened here is worse again. Not only is Aliadiere's suspension extended but the appeal is basically laughed at in public by the FA, which is unprofessional, disrespectful and something that you could pretty much guarantee would not happen to one of the big three + Liverpool.

I really just wish that more referees would just have the dignity to put their hand up and "apologies, I didn't see the entire incident and made a bad call because of it. I will go about correcting that". To be honest, they would get a lot less stick from the fans and media if they did that on a more consistent basis as well (where it is warranted, of course).

These type of things just really irritate the shit out of me.

[Bigpapa42]

one was intentional, the other wasnt

thats how it works, u cant ban someone for longer if they diddnt mean to hurt the guy!

Regardless of intent, the result of the action should matter. Why should a reckless challenge that results in a slight bruise carry the exact same consequence as one that results in serious injury? In law, intent and result both matter. Why should this be that different? How does it deter the next guy who is going to make a reckless challenge that could result in a serious injury?

[revelationx]

Obviously I'm an Arsenal fan and was horrified after seeing Martin Taylor's tackle on Eduardo. Having gone through something similar (compound fracture, titanium rod, months of rehab, etc.) it really hit home. I have said in other threads that I don't think Taylor did this intentionally. But, I do think this is more than a three match ban. I don't care about his intent. His "ill-timed" tackle maimed another player. If he was truly not trying to get "stuck in" then what was he doing? Why was his tackle so bad? And don't give me the BS about Eduardo was "just too quick for him." That doesn't cut it.

So, today I read that Jeremie Aliadiere's slap of Javier Mascherano has gotten him a four-match ban. I realize he got the extra match for the appeal, but does this make any sense to any reasonable human being on the planet? Aliadiere retaliated for Mascherano grabbing his face and swiped back at him (of course, Mascherano gets nothing for touching a player though). Not a smart move on Aliadiere's part, but a four-match ban? Does this punishment fit the crime? And now it looks as if Taylor may only get a three-match ban. I just don't understand the FA's logic on this, among other things.

Weigh in, please.

A red card for Violent Conduct is a mandatory 3 match ban. You can really only successfully appeal it if you show that it was a case of mistaken identity. Obviously it was not. Mascherano did touch Aliadiere's face in a provocative gesture beforehand but you cannot interpret this as being violent conduct. Despite all the talk about 'raising your hands' an offence is only committed if there is violent conduct. Aliadiere's slap was a bit like a girl's but this was judged by the ref to be violent conduct. The appeal was always going to fail and as it was a waste of time it was judged to be frivolous (which is the technical term) and the penalty for this is another games ban.

Remember it is only in the Premier League that a Red Card can even be appealed at all. FIFA have stated categorically that Red Cards cannot be appealed but the Premier League have defied them on this.

I believe Taylor was given a red card for Serious Foul Play. The punishment for this is a 3 match ban. If Birmingham had appealed this and lost (which they would have done) then an extra match ban would have resulted.

With regards to punishments fitting the crime, it is debateable whether the severity of an injury should be taken into account when penalising a player for an incident. Without referring to the Eduardo incident it is apparent that mistimed tackles and collisions do happen. We've all seen two players jump for a corner and accidently bump heads and land awkwardly. Some injuries do occur entirely by accident. I've seen a player from the same side inadvertantly injure a team-mate. This can also occur in training. We've also seen players tragically die during football matches on rare occasions. Football is a physical game and injuries are a common aspect of it. If a player misses 5 games in a season through injury it is not something that is deemed unusual.

Tackles that are plainly deliberate attempts to injure a player should possibly be subject to review for further punishement.

[thebigman]

so should the chinese player who ran along side cisse when his leg broke be reprimanded? what about the lyon player contesting larsson?

[Skizz]

Completely different and you know it, I hope you compared them in jest because doing it in all seriousness is stupid.

[Val1]

billyireland said it better than I would have.

I see why fighting is cracked down on, and control under emotional, physical engagement is a crucial lesson that all players have to learn. But carding Aliadiere and not Mascherano, and then dismissing the appeal as frivolous, ranks of complete incompetence. Just when you those guys couldn't sink any lower...

[c0reyf]

Although it has to be pointed out that the Aliadiere case is an utter farce, to be honest. If he deserved the red card, then so did Mascherano by default - they both did the same thing, and while Aliadiere's was a little more aggressive (though hardly a KO attempt) Mascherano was the first to act without provocation from Jeremie, iirc.

I only saw a replay but the same question was in my mind. Did Mascherano receive a yellow card? If he didn't then raising his hands is at minimum unsporting behavior = straight yellow, no question. As for Ali it would be have to be violent conduct = straight red. He should have known better than to strike another player (yes even a slap).:cool:

[billyireland]

Nope... Mascherano got off scot-free, although the whole affair is hardly suprising given that it was at Anfield and we are talking about the FA & Liverpool here.

[revelationx]

I only saw a replay but the same question was in my mind. Did Mascherano receive a yellow card? If he didn't then raising his hands is at minimum unsporting behavior = straight yellow, no question. As for Ali it would be have to be violent conduct = straight red. He should have known better than to strike another player (yes even a slap).:cool:

'Raising your hands' is not an offence. Violent conduct is. Touching an opponents face is not a bookable offence. It was a provocative move by Mascherano but not a foul.

Claims of a conspiracy is somewhat of a stretch, Billy.

The Laws might be an ass or be applied unevenly but that debate is a thread of its own.

[SLO-Gunner]

Is there a video of the incident?

[revelationx]

Is there a video of the incident?


Yep, highlights are here. The red card is about 7 mins into the clip.

http://footytv.blogspot.com/2008/02/liverpool-middlesbrough-23022008.html

[antifan]

The sad thing is, you have to give Mascherano a little credit. How many players would have collapsed in a heap, clutching their face?

[revelationx]

The sad thing is, you have to give Mascherano a little credit. How many players would have collapsed in a heap, clutching their face?

That does happen a lot. I am sure Drogba would have behaved as if he had been dragon-punched! Essentially Aliadiere just snapped for a second and slapped Mascerano. He would probably look back on it and regret his momentary loss of control. The slap was just a stinging contact and never capable of causing injury or damage like an elbow, headbutt or punch.

[billyireland]

'Raising your hands' is not an offence. Violent conduct is. Touching an opponents face is not a bookable offence. It was a provocative move by Mascherano but not a foul.

Claims of a conspiracy is somewhat of a stretch, Billy.

The Laws might be an ass or be applied unevenly but that debate is a thread of its own.
To be honest I was just suprised at how little attention Mascherano's actions have gotten compared to if it had been Ronaldo in his shoes. ;)

[c0reyf]

'Raising your hands' is not an offence. Violent conduct is. Touching an opponents face is not a bookable offence. It was a provocative move by Mascherano but not a foul.

Claims of a conspiracy is somewhat of a stretch, Billy.

The Laws might be an ass or be applied unevenly but that debate is a thread of its own.

I watched the replay link and I'll agree to disagree.

Raising you hand at another person's face in an attempt to get them to hit you or get you sent off is a foul, bookable at refs discretion.

Striking or attempting to strike an opponent is a foul, also bookable at refs discretion.

Interpretation and what the ref actually saw was the key here. Having the luxury of seeing the replay I would've given Ali another yellow and he would've gone anyway. Mash gets a yellow, nobody could complain and everybody is happy.