Dirk Kuyt

[dutchbrowncoat]

there is a lot of discussion, mainly in the way of hatred, of him in the individual match threads, so i wanted to try to bring the talk out here. honestly, i am a huge fan of the guy, as i am a big feyenoord fan as well and i loved what he did for that club, so i concede immediately that i will have a slightly pro-kuyt bias. first, it must be pointed out that he wears the red shirt, and he gives it his all every match he plays. he is not fernando torres, and people should not expect him to be.

some things i want to bring up, feel free to discuss as you wish.

his position out wide right in the recent games - many have called for pennant or benayoun to be out there in place of him, and wondered why rafa would put him out there. honestly, i wonder myself, but here is what i have come up with. in my opinion, he tracks back and provides more defensive cover then both of these players. i think this was useful against a talented stewart downing and (potentially) attacking left backs from milan. he has done time in this position for club and country whilst in holland, and did a reasonable job. in a similar manner, i think he provides more of what i would expect from a right winger...he can cross well enough, as well as pop a decent shot on goal. yossi tends to just cut inside, and pennant tends to just sit wide and cross.

form - watching his play, i must admit i have been disappointed. a number of poor first touches and poor shots being the chief causes. people have tossed around that his dads death might have put him off in the summer and earlier this year, and that he would need time to get back into it. he has looked really good, i think, in a number of games, especially as the season has progressed, so i dont want to write him off yet. it should also be noted that he is on pace to match or exceed his scoring tally of last year, so it cant be that bad of a season. with the introduction of so much new talent though, it is easy for him to be overlooked. (as a point of interest, only three of the top seven scorers from last year are on the list again, and the other four are summer signings) this could be credited to him playing more minutes than some other players, but his work ethic can't be ignored, and he is very rarely injured.

summer sales - many have argued adamantly that we should dump him this summer. i think a number of teams in the middle to lower end of the premier league would be willing to pay us what we paid for him +- 1-2 million. his workrate and proven scoring totals would make him an interesting prospect to a number of middle to lower table teams for sure. likewise, i wouldnt mind seeing him put on a feyenoord shirt again, and i am sure he would be welcomed back to the club.

playing time - i am a big fan of the guy, but i am forced to agree that i think he has been played a bit much than he might deserve this year. crouch has either been on or off in his playing time, as was voronin before injury. at least until his form sees a boost, i think that he should see more time on the wings, leaving the central and supporting striker roles to our other talents. he will be more of a scoring threat from the wings than pennant or kewell have been, and he is a better two way player than benayoun or babel, in my opinion.

i dont mean to convert you all into becoming kuyt fan boys, but i think some discussion of his play and how/where he should play is better than the constant sell kuyt / why is he playing / etc. we usually see in the game threads. feel free to comment / criticize / offer up new ideas as you wish.

[royalstilton]

nobody wants to suffer the loss of their father, but Kuijt is a professional athlete and if he cannot put off the grieving for 90 minutes while he plays football, he shouldn't be on the pitch. that's what professional is about -- not letting the ups and downs change your performance so much that you become significantly less effective.

i agree that he provides needed defensive cover, especially where Finnan has been a potential liability. that was true in the Boro match, for certain, as you noted.

as to whether he has outlived his usefulness for the Reds, it would depend on two factors: a) can he be replaced with someone better for a manageable price and b) is his market value good enough that he wouldn't have to be sold at a loss. ( remember that the transfer fee was undisclosed but rumoured to be around £9 million ) it's hard to imagine a mid-table club being able to splash that much for a striker who would only play in the EPL. maybe a team in the UEFA Cup pool.

Hammers paid £7.5 million for Bellamy; Villa paid around £4 million for Harewood. Roque Santa Cruz was a £3 million purchase. Kuijt is undoubtedly worth more than Bellamy and Harewood but he's not worth more than Santa Cruz, who was a complete steal. Paraguay???

Yakubu, who has been one of the most dependable strikers in the EPL cost Everton £11.5 million. Kuijt might be worth something in that range to Villa if O'Neill doesn't want to stick with Harewood, but I don't know that Kuijt would be suited to Villa's game.

[el-capitano]

Everybody likes the guy as a person, but he was bought as a striker to score goals. Which he hasn't been doing regularly until recently. I'd love for him to prove himself in the eyes of the fans, but how much longer does he get?

3 months? Another year?

I know one thing- his first touch is still atrocious! ;)

I won't bag him out, and I hope he does score more, but it had better be sooner rather than later.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

I will never wish ill upon Dirk. He seems like a good guy and he obviously works hard on the pitch.

That being said, his touch is not good, his passing is adequate at best, and despite recently his finishing has been the quality of a center back's finishing.

If he can improve his finishing I would more than gladly keep him on. But everyone has to remember that we want to win the league title. If we need to sell Kuyt to fund purchases of a better SS or wide player then that's what happens.

[usscouse]

You know I don't feel that there's a general "Hatred" Of Dirk. There have been 2 pedantic posters during the last few games who with almost every post have to have a shot at him. To them I say "shut up", it's anoying, we heard you first time and got your message, Rafa will decide when and where they go

He's a likable guy who does work hard, he just hasn't done what he was brought in to do and that's score goals. The last couple of matches he's looked a lot better so we'll see how it goes.

[Twenty26Six]

I think that Dirk would play an important role in a team that had a solid striker and some good attacking midfielders. Right now, we haven't had any good attacking midfielders. Dirk complements Gerrard and Torres well. However, he can't make up for the lack of attacking players outside those two.

Re: Right wing. He has experience on the wing and he can shoot. Pennant can't shoot and Yossi can't play wide - apparently. Plus, Kuyt offers a target that can hold the ball up front. Pennant and Benayoun can't do that. Those guys can't play back to goal like Kuyt.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

I think that Dirk would play an important role in a team that had a solid striker and some good attacking midfielders. Right now, we haven't had any good attacking midfielders. Dirk complements Gerrard and Torres well. However, he can't make up for the lack of attacking players outside those two.

Re: Right wing. He has experience on the wing and he can shoot. Pennant can't shoot and Yossi can't play wide - apparently. Plus, Kuyt offers a target that can hold the ball up front. Pennant and Benayoun can't do that. Those guys can't play back to goal like Kuyt.

That's why I would be game for keeping Kuyt as a utility player, especially if we can get some quality outside players and a good supporting striker.

[adammac19]

I really like to pinpoint the moment when Kuyt became the whipping boy/scapegoat of the club, taking over from his Dutch team mate Bolo because I found it really came out of no where. Yes his play has been poor much like a lot of other players but when a poor result comes in Kuyt is the first name on a lot of the supporters lips that he is rubbish.

It is a interesting point that Kuyt is better at tracking back to cover the wide area but really he isn't a very good winger. He can't beat a man one-on-one and he is poor crosser of the ball. Also even if he can cover the full back, the full back does not have to worry about being out of position too much because Kuyt has very little pace.

I just don't know what happen to the guy who scored for fun in the Dutch League and had a decent first season. I had high hopes for him building on this but it has not happen. If Rafa is still in charge then I can see him sold, one thing that comes to mind with Rafa is he can be ruthless and he shown that with Nando and I can see a similar thing happening.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Actually since our season has been sub-par many supporters, including myself, are looking for people to blame.

Dirk, unfortunately, has been one of the many sub-par players this campaign. Though he has picked it up the last three games.

I admire him and I do hope we find a way to keep him at the club while still possibly getting a very good SS/winger.

[Gandalf The Red]

Unless he can regain his Feyenoord form soon, He simply isnt Title winning material, we shall see if this guy rises to the challenge of the champs league and getting 4th as Everton are starting to motor

[GoHawks4]

he's not worth more than Santa Cruz, who was a complete steal. Paraguay???He had been at Bayern Munich for years before he headed to Lancashire.

[Red Bird]

I think hatred is a strong word and I suspect something got lost in translation. Exasperation would be more apt.

The main reason for Kuijt being shunted to the flanks is because he has been woeful through the middle, absolultely dreadful but Benitez likes his being in the team. Yes, he has run himself into the ground and for that he deserves to be commended. But we have cried out for goals whenever Torres and Gerrard have been off form, injured or just shackled. In my very blinkered view he has been the main reason-- not the sole reason, mind you-- we have failed to turn some draws into wins, particularly at Anfield. The real fault must lie with Benitez for selecting him (seemingly worrying more about the opposition's than our strengths).

I actually do not think he's better than Pennant at right-sided midfielder by the a long shot; Pennant tracks back just as much and hasn't broken down our attacks as often as Kuijt has. But he's far better at delivering the ball into the box or to a red shirt. Benayoun may be less effective defensively (he basically accompanied Downing into the box) but is more incisive up front and I would back him to score more goals. Which is what we need at the moment.

Still, as long as he wears a red shirt I'll cheer him on but I wish he and the manager would decide on the best possible course way to get him into something approaching his form from last year.

[liverbird]

You know I don't feel that there's a general "Hatred" Of Dirk. There have been 2 pedantic posters during the last few games who with almost every post have to have a shot at him. To them I say "shut up", it's anoying, we heard you first time and got your message, Rafa will decide when and where they go

He's a likable guy who does work hard, he just hasn't done what he was brought in to do and that's score goals. The last couple of matches he's looked a lot better so we'll see how it goes.

You could have, and probably did, say the same thing about this guy:

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/DED96971-CF06-4266-806D-A84A236D2415/30544/EmileHeskey_train_L.jpg

[handle]

I just don't know what happen to the guy who scored for fun in the Dutch League and had a decent first season. I had high hopes for him building on this but it has not happen.I'll tell you what happened: the same thing that happened to Morientes. Benitez plays one striker. The other forward is a glorified attacking midfielder. Scratch that, an un-glorified attacking midfielder in that he doesn't get to score the goals he would up front and then gets attacked by the fans.

We're essentially playing a 4-5-1 with Kuyt as either an attacking midfielder with defensive duties, or with Gerrard in that position and Kuyt wide right. Rafa loves his men "between the lines" and he loves his hard workers, and Kuyt gives him both. Unfortunately, he isn't really made for that position. At times it works (recently against Inter), but for the most part I think it's a waste of 10 million pounds and of a player. Kuyt is one of our physical, not technical players. He, like Riise, Babel, Carragher, and Hyypia, has more stamina than pace, more tenacity than ability, and less first touch than anything else.

If it were up to me, I'd stick Kuyt right up front, tell him to stay in that box and hit the ball as hard as he can in the general direction of the goal. Well, actually I'd play Crouch, but given that Kuyt will most likely start, that's what I'd tell him.

[adammac19]

I'll tell you what happened: the same thing that happened to Morientes. Benitez plays one striker. The other forward is a glorified attacking midfielder. Scratch that, an un-glorified attacking midfielder in that he doesn't get to score the goals he would up front and then gets attacked by the fans.

We're essentially playing a 4-5-1 with Kuyt as either an attacking midfielder with defensive duties, or with Gerrard in that position and Kuyt wide right. Rafa loves his men "between the lines" and he loves his hard workers, and Kuyt gives him both. Unfortunately, he isn't really made for that position. At times it works (recently against Inter), but for the most part I think it's a waste of 10 million pounds and of a player. Kuyt is one of our physical, not technical players. He, like Riise, Babel, Carragher, and Hyypia, has more stamina than pace, more tenacity than ability, and less first touch than anything else.


I see your point about Kuyt being played as the second striker or on the right side rather than being stuck in the box. It still doesn't matter where he plays because his finishing hasn't been good and passing has been average at best.
Also I don't see much in comparison to Nando situation because he was played as a striker all his time at Liverpool, he simply could not handle the physical side of the league.

I think the comparison to another player who did a lot of donkey work Hesky is a great comparison :D

[handle]

Morientes was asked to play as a second striker as well. He was never cut out for that. Moreover, when entrusted with all the physical work it was simply too much to ask a classy European striker to manage. As such, he failed here, and was sold promptly with Englishman Crouch brought in to do what he could not.

[ForeverRed]

Unless he can regain his Feyenoord form soon, He simply isnt Title winning material, we shall see if this guy rises to the challenge of the champs league and getting 4th as Everton are starting to motor

He will never regain his Feyenoord form. Few strikers equal their strike rate after moving from Holland. That has to do with the nature of the Eredivise. There is a reason Dirk was able to score as freely as he did and an average striker like Afonso can score 7 goals in a game.

Now, we shouldn't judge Kuyt on that basis. Who really believed he was the 20 + goal a season striker when Rafa bought him? Kuyt was never a #9 who scored like Torres is doing or other great #9's.

I thought Kuyt had a good first season, he was one of our better players actually and never slowed down. He is pretty much doing the same this season but unfortunately is failing to finish. There have been a lot of times when Kuyt had a great chance on goal only to shoot wide or straight into the keeper's chest. Dirk is a player's player who will always give it his all for the club and that is a player I'd like to keep around, maybe not as a starter but certainly as an option. I really hope Rafa keeps him around.

[adammac19]

Morientes was asked to play as a second striker as well.

Really because I thought he was there to stay in the box and head balls into the net. I never recall him having to play as the link-up man that Kuyt plays.

[AussieLFCfan]

He will never regain his Feyenoord form. Few strikers equal their strike rate after moving from Holland. That has to do with the nature of the Eredivise. There is a reason Dirk was able to score as freely as he did and an average striker like Afonso can score 7 goals in a game.

Now, we shouldn't judge Kuyt on that basis. Who really believed he was the 20 + goal a season striker when Rafa bought him? Kuyt was never a #9 who scored like Torres is doing or other great #9's.

I thought Kuyt had a good first season, he was one of our better players actually and never slowed down. He is pretty much doing the same this season but unfortunately is failing to finish. There have been a lot of times when Kuyt had a great chance on goal only to shoot wide or straight into the keeper's chest. Dirk is a player's player who will always give it his all for the club and that is a player I'd like to keep around, maybe not as a starter but certainly as an option. I really hope Rafa keeps him around.


Well said.

[Liverpool_SC]

My beef with Kuyt is that he does not move properly off the ball, has a poor first touch, does not finish very well (snatches at shots), does not make decisions fast enough and cannot head the ball with any authority.

Otherwise he is fine.

I was concerned even before he came that he would not be much of a goalscorer in Holland. At Feya he always had time to play with his head up so he could take time to prepare his shot. I could not believe how much space and time he had to take shots, and he scored goals from all over the place. His effective scoring range is now miniscule and it depends on someone else doing all the work.

In Holland, Kuyt was physically quicker and stronger relative to competition as well. He is only average in EPL. That means that to be effective, he must be a grafter and just work like a maniac. Playing the game that way makes it even tougher for him to get in a rhythm and be more effective with his technique. All of the running and chasing makes his legs rubbery and tough to keep his head clear such that when he does get the ball in an attacking position - he is not thinking clearly and his touch is not fine enough. He basically chases the game.

Besides the lack of physical and technical tools, he just doesn't have the confidence and mentality to be a successful striker at this level. I don't blame Kuyt for not being a great player. He is doing his best. I just don't think he was ever going to be the right fit for LFC.

The thing that really bugs me is that LFC had a guy who was just as hard-working and no more limited in Emile Heskey and he was roundly drummed out of the side for not scoring enough goals ... he actually scored as well (really better if you look at where he was compared to Kuyt in this stage of his tenure with LFC) as Kuyt ever did and was a more effective forward (actually drew attention away from Owen and was a handful for defenders).

That being said - Kuyt is a pretty effective sub when LFC is trying to kill a game or hold a lead.