Summer '08 Transfer Thread: "40 Million Quid Just Dont Buy What It Used To!"

[Twenty26Six]

I was going to say.

Can't you just play your best 11 every game? I thought that's what champions did. Hmmm.

[ForeverRed]

he would fit well. allow him and babel to be our 'wingers' either side of torres.

In a 4-3-3 you mean?

VDV is best utilized through the middle, not out wide, but he can certainly play well there too.

[Red Bird]

Did he he just say Voronin? Not even a hint of irony.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Sounds like Teso's calling for more rotation. :rolleyes:

I was going to say.

Can't you just play your best 11 every game? I thought that's what champions did. Hmmm.

No side can rely on 11 players for 90 minutes in every single game. You need to use your squad to keep everyone fresh and match sharp, in addition to providing different options to win a game. There is a big difference between doing that, which practically every single team does, and rotation for other reasons.

Did he he just say Voronin? Not even a hint of irony.

Are you trying to deny that Voronin is your fourth striking option?

[ChanceTheDog]

No side can rely on 11 players for 90 minutes in every single game. You need to use your squad to keep everyone fresh and match sharp, in addition to providing different options to win a game. There is a big difference between doing that, which practically every single team does, and rotation for other reasons.

You've changed your tune mate. If I had a dollar for every time you've been on here trolling about how much we rotate I could buy Liverpool of Hicks. And just so I know for next time your on here going on about the same old thing. What are the "other" reasons you talk about, that Rafa rotates for?

Are you trying to deny that Voronin is your fourth striking option?

No he's not denying that. He's just saying that he's not much of a striker. But you knew that so I don't know why you asked.

[royalstilton]

I know this is doomsday talk, but I would not be figuring on Daniel Agger to be a fixture in the Liverpool back line. There is something wrong with his foot. It isn't simply a knock that requires a bit of treatment and voila.

Kewell and Riise are product that will have very limited value off-loading. So if you want to replace them, maybe you would get a £3.5M+ cash in for the lot. It has been amply discussed that wingers are pure butter. If you want to plug in a world class winger, figure £15M to start the bidding. I think Liverpool is in a spot right now where not many clubs are going to want to send "the answer" to the Reds. Business is business, but you don't want to help the competition, where you think they are currently inferior or where they are competing for the same niche.

[poopoobigelow]

At the moment we only have Rooney, Tevez and Saha as our main striking options which is obviously a big problem as recent games have highlighted. It's mainly a numbers game in terms of squad depth. Ferguson has long stated that he wants four striking options in order to compete on all fronts during the season. During the summer we lost three in Smith, Solskjaer and Rossi (four if you wish to include Larsson) and only brought Tevez in. That leaves us with three options, one of whom is dead on his feet, the other has had his season hit through injury and the last is Mr. Glass. Not anything to get excited about by any means. In contrast you have four fully fledged options in Torres, Crouch, Kuyt and Voronin.

Now I have no problem with a Rooney/Tevez partnership and I was one of those who originally defended the possibility of it. They have not been at their best this season (Tevez through not having a break during the summer nor a pre-season and Rooney through injury) but they have still managed to contribute with 28 goals and 17 assists. It's certainly a very exciting partnership and I have a lot of hope for it when both players are firing on all cylinders having been fully rested during the summer. Granted both are not strikers and finishing is not their greatest attribute but they bring a hell of a lot to the side and they enable players like Ronaldo to have the freedom to perform. That duo (or trio if you extend that to Ronaldo) is not the problem.

Our problem is what we are left with when we need to rest the aforementioned players or require a different approach to a game. Saha is near perfect for our game and players but is a crock and therefore completely unreliable. He needs to be replaced. We also have Manucho coming in but he is the fourth option and we cannot expect anything from him at this stage. What we need is someone to replace Saha not only in our rotation but also in terms of what they bring to the side. That is why we have been looking at strikers for years now. Any elite side that has ambition of competing in every competition can more than happily give three striking options a lot of playing time throughout a season, with a back-up striker filling in the gaps.

i'm not wondering why you guys would want or need benzema or berbatov as third-choice strikers... i'll take them both, please! i would LOVE for us to be in your position -- a position to ask each other on our summer transfer thread, 'hey lads, who should be our third choice striker, amazing player or will-be amazing player?' becasue, as it stands, when healthy, one young andriy voronin is seemingly third on rafa's depth chart...

my question about a player's mentality and ego... hey berbatov, would you rather lead your team to the carling or FA cup while scoring 20+ goals, or watch your team from the bench in the CL final, or put a few in the net against fulham, sunderland, etc. in a prem winning campaign? i'm just wondering because, while i do understand moving from 'small club' to 'big club,' -- and i would consider both lyon and spurs as 'big clubs' -- i don't understand being okay with riding the bench, even if you are winning more games and POSSIBLY more titles...

[AndSomeAreAngels]

No side can rely on 11 players for 90 minutes in every single game. You need to use your squad to keep everyone fresh and match sharp, in addition to providing different options to win a game. There is a big difference between doing that, which practically every single team does, and rotation for other reasons.

Not that anyone really wants to read another Bichos post, but please explain what these "other reasons" are, that you're implying Rafa is rotating for.

[newterp]

Not that anyone really wants to read another Bichos post, but please explain what these "other reasons" are, that you're implying Rafa is rotating for.


clearly - as well established by the media and other brilliant commentators - Rafa rotates ONLY for the sake of rotating and has ZERO end game in sight.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

I know this is doomsday talk, but I would not be figuring on Daniel Agger to be a fixture in the Liverpool back line. There is something wrong with his foot. It isn't simply a knock that requires a bit of treatment and voila.

Kewell and Riise are product that will have very limited value off-loading. So if you want to replace them, maybe you would get a £3.5M+ cash in for the lot. It has been amply discussed that wingers are pure butter. If you want to plug in a world class winger, figure £15M to start the bidding. I think Liverpool is in a spot right now where not many clubs are going to want to send "the answer" to the Reds. Business is business, but you don't want to help the competition, where you think they are currently inferior or where they are competing for the same niche.

I think Danny Agger will be back. He will have the foot surgery and then a long break over the summer.

[usscouse]

No he's not denying that. He's just saying that he's not much of a striker. But you knew that so I don't know why you asked.
He asked because he's a lonely pathetic arsehole who needs people to respond to his crap. As long as we here keep responding, calling him names, just showing any interest in the pap he writes, he'll stay.

Love me, hate me, just don't ignore me..!

[Teso Dos Bichos]

You've changed your tune mate. If I had a dollar for every time you've been on here trolling about how much we rotate I could buy Liverpool of Hicks. And just so I know for next time your on here going on about the same old thing. What are the "other" reasons you talk about, that Rafa rotates for?

No he's not denying that. He's just saying that he's not much of a striker. But you knew that so I don't know why you asked.

I'll ignore your first asinine section, particularly as your own 'rotation watch' proves that Benitez does rotate considerably more than all of the other teams that were looked at. Rafa has clearly made changes that often make little sense to even your own fans, as a quick look at numerous game threads will attest to. I'm not here to explain why he does it although my thoughts on that come down to his focus and weighting of certain competitions. It is up to your own fans to first accept that it happens and then try to rationalise it.

He is still your fourth choice striker. That is something we do not even have.

i'm not wondering why you guys would want or need benzema or berbatov as third-choice strikers... i'll take them both, please! i would LOVE for us to be in your position -- a position to ask each other on our summer transfer thread, 'hey lads, who should be our third choice striker, amazing player or will-be amazing player?' becasue, as it stands, when healthy, one young andriy voronin is seemingly third on rafa's depth chart...

my question about a player's mentality and ego... hey berbatov, would you rather lead your team to the carling or FA cup while scoring 20+ goals, or watch your team from the bench in the CL final, or put a few in the net against fulham, sunderland, etc. in a prem winning campaign? i'm just wondering because, while i do understand moving from 'small club' to 'big club,' -- and i would consider both lyon and spurs as 'big clubs' -- i don't understand being okay with riding the bench, even if you are winning more games and POSSIBLY more titles...

It comes down to a combination of the following:

(a) The opportunity to play with superior players
(b) The chance to play for one of the elite sides in the world game (prestige, fans, stadium, facilities, etc)
(c) The opportunity to play in the best competitions and have a genuine chance of winning them
(d) A bigger wage

The thing you need to remember is that a third choice striker will still end up playing in a lot of games over the course of a season, so they will not be riding the pine. Ultimately if a player has any confidence in their ability then they will go expecting to force themselves into the first team. Call it confidence, arrogance or stupidity but it happens more often than not. For the perfect example just look at the players jumping at the chance to play for Real Madrid over recent years, despite the club being a complete shambles until recently.

Not that anyone really wants to read another Bichos post, but please explain what these "other reasons" are, that you're implying Rafa is rotating for.

See above. It's might not even by through choice but necessity after your performances on the pitch leave you lagging behind early on in other competitions.

clearly - as well established by the media and other brilliant commentators - Rafa rotates ONLY for the sake of rotating and has ZERO end game in sight.

Don't be stupid.

He asked because he's a lonely pathetic arsehole who needs people to respond to his crap. As long as we here keep responding, calling him names, just showing any interest in the pap he writes, he'll stay.

Love me, hate me, just don't ignore me..!

*yawn*

[Twenty26Six]

He asked because he's a lonely pathetic arsehole who needs people to respond to his crap. As long as we here keep responding, calling him names, just showing any interest in the pap he writes, he'll stay.

Love me, hate me, just don't ignore me..!

Are you talking about Teso or Gandalf? :eek:

[royalstilton]

I think Danny Agger will be back. He will have the foot surgery and then a long break over the summer.
boy, i hope so.

if Benitez goes shopping for a top line centerback, i guess we'll have an idea.

[ChanceTheDog]

Are you talking about Teso or Gandalf? :eek:


I really don't think it's fair on Gandalf to compare him to Teso. At least Gandalf will give you answers on whatever it is he thinks. Teso just writes aload of crap. Anyway I think the best way to deal with him is through PM's as he definatly brings the place down.

[iCEMANGSCCC]

I really don't think it's fair on Gandalf to compare him to Teso. At least Gandalf will give you answers on whatever it is he thinks. Teso just writes aload of crap. Anyway I think the best way to deal with him is through PM's as he definatly brings the place down.



Amazing stuff, Teso is. He's the type of person to argue fire isn't hot, or water isn't wet. He plays devils advocate for attention. Such a poor lad.

[revelationx]

He is still your fourth choice striker. That is something we do not even have.



Man U have 4 strikers listed in their squad. Rooney, Tevez, Saha and Dong Fangzhuo. Fergie may be seeking to upgrade his squad but don't make false claims about the resources in your squad.

As for the Rotation Watch thread. It's purpose was to track lineup changes and to demonstrate that all clubs and not just Liverpool rotate their lineups. The media frenzy on rotation implied that Rafa rotated whereas Fergie, Jose etc played a consistent 11 players week in, week out. The thread was also trying to dispell the media falsehood that naming an unchanged lineup increased the chances of a victory compared to a lineup with several changes made to it. As the thread has demonstrated there is no direct link between the number of changes to a lineup, if any, and the result of the match.

Time constraints have prevented the thread from looking at more than 5 Prem clubs in depth, but a cursory look at clubs abroad such as Inter and Roma have shown that rotation of players is also a common feature. It is interesting to note that Rooney has gone on the record to say that Fergie has been using rotation all season at Man U and that he (Rooney) is in favour of it.

It is clear that rotation has been used as a stick to beat Rafa with by those who are ignorant of the fact that a) the other top managers all utilize it, although Wenger does so to a much smaller degree than anyone else this season. b) Rafa has continued his rotation policy during the current 7 match-winning run despite Press claims that he has stopped rotating hence the winning streak.

It is interesting to note that Arsenal who have utilised rotation the least out of the Top 4 clubs are suffering in form now compared to Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U. This may prove to be just a blip. Also Aston Villa who (by choice) have a relatively small squad (in numbers) have suffered a poor run of form recently with players such as Young and Agbonlahor (who have played the most League minutes out of any forward players) looking tired. Somthing to think about coming up to the sharp end of the season.

[newterp]

I'll ignore your first asinine section, particularly as your own 'rotation watch' proves that Benitez does rotate considerably more than all of the other teams that were looked at. Rafa has clearly made changes that often make little sense to even your own fans, as a quick look at numerous game threads will attest to. I'm not here to explain why he does it although my thoughts on that come down to his focus and weighting of certain competitions. It is up to your own fans to first accept that it happens and then try to rationalise it.

He is still your fourth choice striker. That is something we do not even have.



It comes down to a combination of the following:

(a) The opportunity to play with superior players
(b) The chance to play for one of the elite sides in the world game (prestige, fans, stadium, facilities, etc)
(c) The opportunity to play in the best competitions and have a genuine chance of winning them
(d) A bigger wage

The thing you need to remember is that a third choice striker will still end up playing in a lot of games over the course of a season, so they will not be riding the pine. Ultimately if a player has any confidence in their ability then they will go expecting to force themselves into the first team. Call it confidence, arrogance or stupidity but it happens more often than not. For the perfect example just look at the players jumping at the chance to play for Real Madrid over recent years, despite the club being a complete shambles until recently.



See above. It's might not even by through choice but necessity after your performances on the pitch leave you lagging behind early on in other competitions.



Don't be stupid.



*yawn*

solid responses. :rolleyes:

[Red Bird]

Are you trying to deny that Voronin is your fourth striking option?He has not even figured for the last 3 months because he is injured. I know you lot think we are desperate but this ...

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Man U have 4 strikers listed in their squad. Rooney, Tevez, Saha and Dong Fangzhuo. Fergie may be seeking to upgrade his squad but don't make false claims about the resources in your squad.

As for the Rotation Watch thread. It's purpose was to track lineup changes and to demonstrate that all clubs and not just Liverpool rotate their lineups. The media frenzy on rotation implied that Rafa rotated whereas Fergie, Jose etc played a consistent 11 players week in, week out. The thread was also trying to dispell the media falsehood that naming an unchanged lineup increased the chances of a victory compared to a lineup with several changes made to it. As the thread has demonstrated there is no direct link between the number of changes to a lineup, if any, and the result of the match.

Time constraints have prevented the thread from looking at more than 5 Prem clubs in depth, but a cursory look at clubs abroad such as Inter and Roma have shown that rotation of players is also a common feature. It is interesting to note that Rooney has gone on the record to say that Fergie has been using rotation all season at Man U and that he (Rooney) is in favour of it.

It is clear that rotation has been used as a stick to beat Rafa with by those who are ignorant of the fact that a) the other top managers all utilize it, although Wenger does so to a much smaller degree than anyone else this season. b) Rafa has continued his rotation policy during the current 7 match-winning run despite Press claims that he has stopped rotating hence the winning streak.

It is interesting to note that Arsenal who have utilised rotation the least out of the Top 4 clubs are suffering in form now compared to Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U. This may prove to be just a blip. Also Aston Villa who (by choice) have a relatively small squad (in numbers) have suffered a poor run of form recently with players such as Young and Agbonlahor (who have played the most League minutes out of any forward players) looking tired. Somthing to think about coming up to the sharp end of the season.

Dong has made three appearances in his time at the club. He is no different to any other reserve or youth striker and to claim that he is somehow our fourth striking option is clearly incorrect. He is in no way comparable to Voronin, who is an established player who was being used on a regular basis when fit.

You make some decent points but the fact remains that Benitez does rotate considerably more than other managers at the clubs examined and that is what I stated from the start. You can complain about the press all you wish but I am not the press. I'll make more general points in that thread when the season is over.

He has not even figured for the last 3 months because he is injured. I know you lot think we are desperate but this ...

Irrelevant. You still have a fourth choice striker in your first team squad and one that was used on a fairly regular basis when fit. If you want to play the injury card then we only have two striking options because of Saha...