Fulham-West Ham [R]

[lmorin]

In the game today, the winning goal was scored late on a bit of bad marking followed by a block attempt by the keeper who was sliding low. He actually got to the ball in time to contact it with both hands (toward the right; feet angled toward his left post; contact bout 4 yds off the goal line), but he was not positioned to catch/hold the ball. The attacking player kicked the ball immed. after it hit keeper's hands; ball fell loose; follow-through of the attacker's kicking foot hit the keeper in the face; keeper grabbed his face for a moment; there was a tangle of bodies; attacker rolled goal-ward; keeper pretty much fixed on the turf with little further movement; ball bounced around and off attacker's forearm (who was falling and nearly on the ground), changing direction a lot, and went into the goal. (Hope somebody can post video of this).

I'd like to know if a) the foot in the face was a foul and b) whether the ball into the goal off the hand was a foul. For what it is worth, it did not appear to me that the player attempted to push the ball toward the goal.

[nsa]

As a referee, if I saw the hand knock the ball into the net, as the replay shows, I would disallow the goal.

A bit of a dilemma since the knock with the arm appears to have been unintentional and we are only supposed to punish "deliberate" handling of the ball. However, Law 10 stipulates that the ball must be legally propelled. The arm is not legal (unless you are the opposing 'keeper in his own PA).


Several years ago, as a player (and team manager), I made a stupendous play to clear a ball off the goal line only to see it strike an opposing player's forearm high over his head. It rebounded into the goal and the referee allowed the goal. :eek: As PO'd as I was, I probably had my best day as a manager convincing my teammates not to dismember the referee (as wrong as he was). :D


The boot to the head was simply a follow-on of the 'keeper coming out after the ball was struck. Nothing inappropriate there.

[KidRef]

I saw the play today. Can say you can't get much closer than that in terms of split second decision making. It appears from the replays (and remember the ref only gets to watch at full speed) that the gk did not yet have control of the ball, and there was nothing dangerous about how the goalscorer played the ball, thus it is a good goal. The slight boot in the chin is something that would not be called at that level, as the gk actually went into the goalscorer. i'd say the right decision was made. I did not see the ball going off the hand so can't answer that one.

[GreatGonzo]

Going back to the Fulham-West Ham decision - a lot of it was really questionable, and I would love to hear further clarification on it from you guys. I thought that if the goalie had his hands on the ball, it was in his 'control' and that it couldn't be knocked out, which would have made Solano's tackle illegal. I thought Niemi got to the ball first, but both players got to the ball around the exact same time so it's extremely difficult to tell. I don't know what the ruling should be on the boot to Niemi's face. And the ball went in off of Solano's arm, but Solano was falling to the ground and judging from the replays, there's no way that I would consider it to be intentional.

We also have to remember that we have the benefit of replay and camera angles, while the referee doesn't - I'm not even sure where the referee was and what angle he had. I highly doubt he saw it hit Solano's arm. I'm also pretty sure that he went and spoke to the AR as well to confirm.

Along with nsa's example, though, I have a question similar to that. Say you have the same sort of situation: defender clears the ball off the line, the opposing forward is a yard away, and it bounces in off the forward's arm that's at his side, so it's clearly not deliberate. Is it a goal?

[pacref]

And if I hear one more player, announcer, parent, or fan say...yeah, but I/HE/She or It got the ball...I am going to scream. Where exactly does it say that if you get a piece of the ball everything else you do in the challenge suddenly becomes fine and dandy?

R

I can't agree with you more, that and the players calling for handling after they kick the ball into the player.

Twice the other night the white players kick bounced off the side and rear of a red players arm. White bitched, second time he did hit he had to sit a while (NFHS).

[IASocFan]

Those looking for the posts on the Taylor/Eduardo tackle can find them in the Gruesome Tackle Thread (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=662324).