Are there any political leanings for Bundesliga teams?

[Borussia]

There seem to be parallels to the Juventus/AC Torino relationship...

[Aussibayer]

Did anyone see the report in Sport Bild the other week where they planted reporter Andreas Böni smack bang in the middle of the hard-core Dynamo Dresden fans? It was pretty freaky to be honest. Fans wearing gloves symbolising "die 3te Halbzeite" (ie looking for altercations with opposition fans after the game in "the 3rd half"), chants liked "Berlin, Berlin, Juden Berlin", "Die Presse, Die Presse, die Presse auf die Fresse" ("Punch the press in the gob"). Bottles tossed, smoke bombs lit. And away fan herded to the ground like cattle, complete with a helicopter to watch over everything.

Yes Theo Schwanziger & the DFB/DFL has the audacity to say that there is not a problem with violence & racism in German stadiums. Pretty scary that in a civilised country like Germany that people are still making Nazi chants & that "Category C" types who have minimal interest in the actual match are actually still allowed to go inside grounds using it as a platform to fight rival gangs from other cities.

JF

PS:- On the other hand does the Violence Task Force also cover illegal Stadium bans & arrests for fans with them even being given a chance to clear their names? Will it cover the often disgusting over-reaction of police at grounds, often being more 'up' for a battle than the supporters? :(

[Aussibayer]

1860 has always been the working class club. Bayern were founded in Schwabing in 1900, the part of Munich that attracted a lot of poets and painters and other artists at that time. Schwabing was renowned all over Germany for that. Thus many northern Germans and Prussians moved to Schwabing and it gave this part of Munich a very intellectual and liberal touch. In fact Bayern's most important founding father was Franz John, a native of Berlin. Bayern soon became attractive to socalled "Zugroaste" - non-Bavarians living in Munich. The club only allowed people that had "abitur" (university entrance diploma) to join the club, which made them one of the most elitist clubs in southern Germany. Bayern's first team during that period included a notary, an opera singer, a movie director, a chemist and a curator! With the liberal climate at Bayern, foreigners, Jews and Prussians were all very welcomed at the club during the first three decades, which was why the Nazis weren't too fond of Bayern.

1860 was founded in Giesing, which was worker's part of the city. Most of the players and members were natives of Munich. It is thus true that 1860 for a long time had been more popular among native Munichers than Bayern.

Man, what a fascinating post mate. I'd love to find out more about Munich and its footballing history. Are there any websites (in either English German or even Boarisch ;) ) which have more info on his history & culture?

JF

[footyfan1]

1860 has always been the working class club. Bayern were founded in Schwabing in 1900, the part of Munich that attracted a lot of poets and painters and other artists at that time. Schwabing was renowned all over Germany for that. Thus many northern Germans and Prussians moved to Schwabing and it gave this part of Munich a very intellectual and liberal touch. In fact Bayern's most important founding father was Franz John, a native of Berlin. Bayern soon became attractive to socalled "Zugroaste" - non-Bavarians living in Munich. The club only allowed people that had "abitur" (university entrance diploma) to join the club, which made them one of the most elitist clubs in southern Germany. Bayern's first team during that period included a notary, an opera singer, a movie director, a chemist and a curator! With the liberal climate at Bayern, foreigners, Jews and Prussians were all very welcomed at the club during the first three decades, which was why the Nazis weren't too fond of Bayern.

1860 was founded in Giesing, which was worker's part of the city. Most of the players and members were natives of Munich. It is thus true that 1860 for a long time had been more popular among native Munichers than Bayern.

Thanks for the history lessons man! I have to go and pound one of my buddies up in Erlangen next weekend! He gave me the story backwards!! LOL!! :D

[Doc_Aeppler]

Did anyone see the report in Sport Bild the other week where they planted reporter Andreas Böni smack bang in the middle of the hard-core Dynamo Dresden fans? It was pretty freaky to be honest. Fans wearing gloves symbolising "die 3te Halbzeite" (ie looking for altercations with opposition fans after the game in "the 3rd half"), chants liked "Berlin, Berlin, Juden Berlin", "Die Presse, Die Presse, die Presse auf die Fresse" ("Punch the press in the gob"). Bottles tossed, smoke bombs lit. And away fan herded to the ground like cattle, complete with a helicopter to watch over everything.

Yes Theo Schwanziger & the DFB/DFL has the audacity to say that there is not a problem with violence & racism in German stadiums. Pretty scary that in a civilised country like Germany that people are still making Nazi chants & that "Category C" types who have minimal interest in the actual match are actually still allowed to go inside grounds using it as a platform to fight rival gangs from other cities.

JF

PS:- On the other hand does the Violence Task Force also cover illegal Stadium bans & arrests for fans with them even being given a chance to clear their names? Will it cover the often disgusting over-reaction of police at grounds, often being more 'up' for a battle than the supporters? :(


this reporter has never been in a footballstadium before. typicall bild-zeitungs article...

[F96]

this reporter has never been in a footballstadium before. typicall bild-zeitungs article...

Doesn't change the fact that there's indeed a problem with racism and violence with certain clubs and especially the "fan club Nationalmannschaft".

The real problem is that the press is making a big fuss about a single person throwing a beer-cup or someone lighting up flares and throwing all that together with hooligans and nazis.

[Borussia]

Doesn't change the fact that there's indeed a problem with racism and violence with certain clubs


That's true. There are a few clubs which unfortunately have "fans" with a certain right wing tendency (however, not comparable with Serie A clubs like Hellas Verona, Lazio or Inter).


and especially the "fan club Nationalmannschaft".


I think you are wrong. Those idiots, who always cause trouble at away matches, DON'T belong to the "Fan Club Nationalmannschaft"!

[F96]

I think you are wrong. Those idiots, who always cause trouble at away matches, DON'T belong to the "Fan Club Nationalmannschaft"!


Oh I don't mean those that "cause trouble". Let's just say I met a few who are members and they have a certain mindset. You're right it doesn't mean that the majority are, mayn are members because of the opportunity of getting tickets and stuff.

[Borussia]

Oh I don't mean those that "cause trouble". Let's just say I met a few who are members and they have a certain mindset.


That might be possible. However, it's not fair to generalize.

[AGF Aarhus]

this reporter has never been in a footballstadium before. typicall bild-zeitungs article...
Just curious, do you know this reporter and know that he has never been to a football stadium before? I ask because the crap that the Dynamo fans pulled in this game (I'm assuming it was the game away at Hertha II) was pretty widely reported in publications other than Bild.

You are correct that the media have an interest in exaggerating these things, though. Last season RTL spent a ton of cash sending reporters and film crews to the Union-BFC match and clearing space to broadcast the carnage on Sunday night hoping for a bloodbath. They were disappointed when the police arrested a bunch of hools the night before and the game (well, comprehensive ass-kicking) passed off without incident. Ironically, the return match in the spring ended with a riot in the 77th minute.

But for the match in question, surely there is no doubt as to the poor behaviour of the Dynamo fans?

[Aussibayer]

Doesn't change the fact that there's indeed a problem with racism and violence with certain clubs and especially the "fan club Nationalmannschaft".

The real problem is that the press is making a big fuss about a single person throwing a beer-cup or someone lighting up flares and throwing all that together with hooligans and nazis.

I know as a fact that Bild like to paint anyone who dares criticise the constant over-commercial nature of today's football as "violent hooligans". A couple of seasons ago the Schickeria Ultras were marching down the Leopold Strase as a group to celebrate the champion win. They had a giant FC Bayern logo that they placed in the middle of the road. This stopped traffic, so the police came in, with battons and typical brute force. A riot ensued because several of the lads copped a beating from the cops. Selected Bayernfans (including several people who were not even on the LeopoldStrasse) had their season tickets banned unlawfully, including anyone connected with the Schickeria & ClubNr12. Sport Bild reported about the whole thing and only used Uli Hoeness's club party line about ClubNr12 being "hooligans with wear suits and ties" . ClubNr12 president Gregor Weinreich was interviewed but his comments were never used by the journo. So much for presenting a balanced argument.

The hypocrytical aspect of all this is the fact they print a huge Fan Report edition every couple of months where people tell of their troubles they have had with cops & stadium Ordner. Yet they continue to paint people trying to make a spectacle by lighting flares as complete troublemakers and hooligan. Yet in the same note these same journos literally wetting themselves when they see the Ultras do exactly the same thing in say a Milan derby.

JF

[footyfan1]

That's true. There are a few clubs which unfortunately have "fans" with a certain right wing tendency (however, not comparable with Serie A clubs like Hellas Verona, Lazio or Inter).

So?? What's your point? Just because they aren't as bad as some Italian clubs doesn't make them any less of a problem. I don't think anyone here gives a shit about Italian clubs, we care about what's going on here in Germany.

Man, I hate when people try to minimize a problem by comparing it to a place that's worse.

F#ck the other place, we worry about THIS COUNTRY!

[Doc_Aeppler]

I know as a fact that Bild like to paint anyone who dares criticise the constant over-commercial nature of today's football as "violent hooligans". A couple of seasons ago the Schickeria Ultras were marching down the Leopold Strase as a group to celebrate the champion win. They had a giant FC Bayern logo that they placed in the middle of the road. This stopped traffic, so the police came in, with battons and typical brute force. A riot ensued because several of the lads copped a beating from the cops. Selected Bayernfans (including several people who were not even on the LeopoldStrasse) had their season tickets banned unlawfully, including anyone connected with the Schickeria & ClubNr12. Sport Bild reported about the whole thing and only used Uli Hoeness's club party line about ClubNr12 being "hooligans with wear suits and ties" . ClubNr12 president Gregor Weinreich was interviewed but his comments were never used by the journo. So much for presenting a balanced argument.

The hypocrytical aspect of all this is the fact they print a huge Fan Report edition every couple of months where people tell of their troubles they have had with cops & stadium Ordner. Yet they continue to paint people trying to make a spectacle by lighting flares as complete troublemakers and hooligan. Yet in the same note these same journos literally wetting themselves when they see the Ultras do exactly the same thing in say a Milan derby.

JF

Good post! I agree. there have been many storys like this all over the country...

@ AGF, no I dont know him, but it sure sounds like he never has. Btw Hes talking about Dynamos homegame against Union where nothing serious happened. And he never describes anything happening, he just describes how affraid he is that somehing might happen... Some prime Bild Zeitungs Journalism...
But yes, I agree that Dynamo has some major problems with their Fans.

[F96]

So?? What's your point? Just because they aren't as bad as some Italian clubs doesn't make them any less of a problem. I don't think anyone here gives a shit about Italian clubs, we care about what's going on here in Germany.

Man, I hate when people try to minimize a problem by comparing it to a place that's worse.

F#ck the other place, we worry about THIS COUNTRY!

Totally agree! :D

[domingo]

Oh, I can "prove" it. I just choose not to waste my time doing so. This is not my job and I don't care about it enough to worry about going that far just to make a point to someone who's in denial anyhow.

how poor

[footyfan1]

how poor


Whatever dude. You can keep whining for all I care. The discussion has moved on......

[Borussia]

So?? What's your point? Just because they aren't as bad as some Italian clubs doesn't make them any less of a problem. I don't think anyone here gives a shit about Italian clubs, we care about what's going on here in Germany.

Man, I hate when people try to minimize a problem by comparing it to a place that's worse.

F#ck the other place, we worry about THIS COUNTRY!


Hello Keith,

I'm just surprised to see you offended by my posting as it was nothing more than a statement and no comparison with another country. :rolleyes:

Everyone who knows my attitude in this matter, is aware of the fact that I'd never play down any sort of problems concerning racial abuse or intolerance! :cool:

[footyfan1]

Hello Keith,

I'm just surprised to see you offended by my posting as it was nothing more than a statement and no comparison with another country. :rolleyes:


I'm sorry. My English must suck. Because from what I read, that's exactly what you did...... :rolleyes:


Everyone who knows my attitude in this matter, is aware of the fact that I'd never play down any sort of problems concerning racial abuse or intolerance! :cool:

OK. Good point. You might not have meant to, but it's exactly what you did. I can't see how you are saying something when you type it. I take it exactly the way you write it.....

[Borussia]

I'm sorry. My English must suck. Because from what I read, that's exactly what you did...... :rolleyes:


No, I didn't. It was just a real statement and nothing more.

[footyfan1]

No, I didn't. It was just a real statement and nothing more.

Whatever man.