Are there any political leanings for Bundesliga teams?

[arsenal]

I have always thought that 1860 was the right wing club of Munich and that Bayern was the left wing due to their banners stating the "munich reds" and at a British German Terrormachine concert I met 3 1860 Munich fans who were skinheads. How does this occur?

[Mattbro]

Originally posted by Eisern Union


Guilty as charged. I'm an expat.

Thought that might be the case - I can usually recognize a fellow expat! Presumably you have a family connection to Germany, like I have to Austria (I'm guessing you otherwise wouldn't be such a big fan of Eisern Union)?

[BrianCappellieri]

If you live in Berlin and Austria how are you ex-pats?

[Eisern Union]

OK, everyone identify themselves.

I'm an American who has moved to Berlin. My girlfriend is a Berliner and a Union fan, so so am I. So, Expat = American Living in Berlin.

I would also like to echo what domingo said. A lot of clubs had problems with violent fans (sometimes political, sometimes not) in the past and have since cleaned up their act. I found most of the Rostock fans at Olympia Stadion last year to be quite respectable. Hertha certainly had a problem with neo-nazi supporters in the past and this has been largely cleared up. There are still a few bad apples (as in Rostock), but this is not a representation of all or even most of the fans. There seems to be a lot of pressure applied on clubs when they are promoted to clean up their act.

[Mattbro]

Originally posted by BrianCappellieri
If you live in Berlin and Austria how are you ex-pats?

On account of that we were pats before we left the country - make sense?

I'm originally from New England, and would claim to be a Revs fan if I got to go to more than one game a year. I did buy the jersey though (and I'm wearing a Revs t-shirt as a type this!).

But my dad comes from the west side of Vienna, which is why I'm a Rapid fan.

[Forza Bayern]

Originally posted by olafgb
There are some, but you shouldn't take it too serious.

I would underline this. For example, the "conservative" FC Bayern Munich has supporters allover Germany (and Europe).

[Mattbro]

Originally posted by Forza Bayern


I would underline this. For example, the "conservative" FC Bayern Munich has supporters allover Germany (and Europe).

Otherwise known as glory hunters.

[rafaelj]

It has always startled me how quickly people condemn or praise a club just because they assume it's the "working class club" or the "conservative club".

True, some clubs are headed by slightly left or right wing politicians. And of course, small, reassuringly unsuccesful clubs like St Pauli, Bochum or Cottbus are so easily loved by political leftists.

But overall there seems to be no connection with the actual PLAYERS and the assumed political stand of the club. I always laugh when people think all Bayern players are conservative, but all Dortmund players are such working class heroes - I guess they're ALL pretty conservative; Dortmund players have actually earned more money in the last ten years on average than Bayern players and often the checkbook dictates the ideology.

At least half of all players are non-voting foreigners anyway and most probably couldn't care less about politics - as long as the tax rate is as low as possible for them ...

I think one can argue that one thing has little to do with the other - liking Bayern or St Pauli has as little to do with my political opinion as liking tomatoes or nectarines better - it's simply a different aspect of life.

(The only exception to this would be the incidents in history where totalitarian regimes dictated the outcome of matches and competitions - then of course the underdogs deserved all of our sympathy)

But as for German clubs - I've never had a problem enjoying countless beautiful Eurocup or CL matches with Bayern and still keep my leftist/green political conscience untouched and intact.

[BrianCappellieri]

Sorry, guys. I thought you meant you were German and Austrian respectively.

[avogel540]

I actually have a question regarding loyalty to teams here. I am studying abroad in Friedrichshafen, Germany at Zeppelin University from this coming January to June. So I was wondering if anyone knows if Friedrichshafen, or that whole Bodensee area as a whole, has a certain team they follow. Sort of like many towns and cities here will follow one team overall. Just message me on here, because I doubt I'll find this forum again. But I'll try...
Thanks,
Alex

[96Squig]

I actually have a question regarding loyalty to teams here. I am studying abroad in Friedrichshafen, Germany at Zeppelin University from this coming January to June. So I was wondering if anyone knows if Friedrichshafen, or that whole Bodensee area as a whole, has a certain team they follow. Sort of like many towns and cities here will follow one team overall. Just message me on here, because I doubt I'll find this forum again. But I'll try...
Thanks,
Alex
As in the rest of Germany, expect plenty Bayern fans to be around, as well as some scattered Köln, Dortmund, Schalke and possibly Gladbach fans. The rest will go with the regions' teams: Freiburg, Stuttgart, possibly Ulm, 1860 and Karlsruhe.
What this has to do with political leaning is beyond me, though ;-)

[footyfan1]

In Munich 1860 were traditonally the workers club having come from a working class district south of the city, ans so a lot of their fans would obviously be more left wing. Bayern on the other hand came from a very wealthy area and would be a lot more conservative even today.

Actually, from what I understand at their beginnings, it was the other way around. 1860 comes from what then was the "swanky" area of Munich and for a long time were the #1 club in Munich.

Bayern didn't become the "Bayern" we know today until the early 70s.

I believe 1860 got to be the "working class" club after the "elite" fans in Munich all jumped to Bayern.



I have always thought that 1860 was the right wing club of Munich and that Bayern was the left wing due to their banners stating the "munich reds" and at a British German Terrormachine concert I met 3 1860 Munich fans who were skinheads. How does this occur?


I've never known either Bayern or 1860 to be "left wing" or "right wing". As far as meeting three (WOW THREE!) 1860 fans who were skinheads, I'll just say that clubs don't get to approve the people who decide to become fans of theirs.

And as far as I know, "Munich Reds" means that they are fans of Bayern. Like Liverpool and Man U., many here like to call Bayern "The Reds". As far as I know, it has no political meaning.

I'm no Bayern fan, but I know that club is all about football, not politics.......

[sportfriend]

I have always thought that 1860 was the right wing club of Munich and that Bayern was the left wing due to their banners stating the "munich reds" and at a British German Terrormachine concert I met 3 1860 Munich fans who were skinheads. How does this occur?

skinheads aren't all racist...there are skinheads and neo-nazi skins...Both are about unity and such...With regular skins, think more punk.

[Aussibayer]

Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg are very conservative with the city of Munich being the exception. But the citizens of Munich are relatively soccer lazy and the vast majority supporting Bayern and 1860 is not from Munich. Whereas Bayern surely is more conservative than 1860.

On what grounds have you come to this conclusion? I lived & studied in Munich and never really noticed political persuasions amongst either group of fans to be honest. Ok, the FCB-alligned 'firm' the Tavernen Crew were pretty right-of-centre politically. But their season tickets have been banned for years.

The younger www.schickeria-muenchen.de Ultras are leftish-leaning (as can be read in their fanclub newsletter the Suedkurvenbladdl). But as far as I know they really stand out by acting adopting a deliberately left-leaning political ideology at matches.

I still feel you are incorrect in saying that the Giessinger are any different politically to the FCB'ler. If so, please back up your argument with concrete examples.

JF

[Aussibayer]

Dude, try the visitors section next time Hansa Rostock comes to the Olympic Stadium.


I have been on a supporters bus to Rostock once. We arrived in the city and Rostocker were greeting us with the Hitler salute. I may just have driven past the wrong people at the wrong time. But the impression I got was that Rostock supporters were frustrated and disillusioned at not having any work & hence were more right-leaning as a result:eek:

Personally I think they should stick to eating their horrid Matjes Broetchen and trying to convince everyone they are infact 'North Germans' and "Hanseaten" rather than East Germans.

JF

[Aussibayer]

Otherwise known as glory hunters.


And Rapid doesn't have the same type of people in Austria?

JF

[96Squig]

And Rapid doesn't have the same type of people in Austria?

JF
Not anymore ;-)

Appearantly there was a NPD (neonazis) meeting at the Hannover 96 clubcafe, Now a major outcry by the fans follows.

[domingo]

I have been on a supporters bus to Rostock once. We arrived in the city and Rostocker were greeting us with the Hitler salute. I may just have driven past the wrong people at the wrong time. But the impression I got was that Rostock supporters were frustrated and disillusioned at not having any work & hence were more right-leaning as a result:eek:

Personally I think they should stick to eating their horrid Matjes Broetchen and trying to convince everyone they are infact 'North Germans' and "Hanseaten" rather than East Germans.

JF

1. Yeah you got us. We are all a bunch of Nazis. And your story is not a lie and nowhere else you could have been greeted in that way.

2. Anybody who thinks that the most northern Club in German professional footbal is not based in North Germany should go back to school.

Conclusion:
You are the victim of some of the German media who try to make us a Club with a bunch of Nazi fans. Which isreally nice for the 98% of us who are not Nazis.

[footyfan1]

I have been on a supporters bus to Rostock once. We arrived in the city and Rostocker were greeting us with the Hitler salute. I may just have driven past the wrong people at the wrong time. But the impression I got was that Rostock supporters were frustrated and disillusioned at not having any work & hence were more right-leaning as a result

Personally I think they should stick to eating their horrid Matjes Broetchen and trying to convince everyone they are infact 'North Germans' and "Hanseaten" rather than East Germans.

JF


1. Yeah you got us. We are all a bunch of Nazis. And your story is not a lie and nowhere else you could have been greeted in that way.

2. Anybody who thinks that the most northern Club in German professional footbal is not based in North Germany should go back to school.

Conclusion:
You are the victim of some of the German media who try to make us a Club with a bunch of Nazi fans. Which isreally nice for the 98% of us who are not Nazis.


Actually, in the first part of Aussibayer's comments, I thought he was merely a fan giving his thoughts on what he saw. He even said "I may have driven past the wrong people at the wrong time", before giving "his impression" of Rostock fans.

He can only go from what he saw. I think you're taking this part of his take rather personally.

I also think it's terribly petty of you to call him a liar.

I had problems with racists on my trips (One for USA v. Germany and one for Rostock v. BVB) to Rostock too, but I'm smart enough to know that all Rostock fans are not racists.

However, if you ask me my impression of Rostock during my visit there, yeah, I'd say I would never suggest that someone of non-German descent or anyone who is dark-skinned go there to live unless you play for the club. Other than that, you're going to have problems.

How do I know that? An African guy living there with his German wife tells me when we email just about weekly.

If it makes you feel any better, I can tell you that Cottbus is even worse.

I'm with you on Aussibayer's other comments about "Eastern/Northern" Germany. I don't think he gets that what comprises "Northern Germany" changed when the Wall came down and while Rostock citizens are decendent from "East Germany" they are still truly "Northern Germans" too.

Just as much as anyone from Kiel or Hamburg is.......

[AGF Aarhus]

I'm with you on Aussibayer's other comments about "Eastern/Northern" Germany. I don't think he gets that what comprises "Northern Germany" changed when the Wall came down and while Rostock citizens are decendent from "East Germany" they are still truly "Northern Germans" too.

Just as much as anyone from Kiel or Hamburg is.......
I think Aussibayer's problem is deeper than that: a complete misunderstanding of German history and geopolitics.

The traditional geographical cleavage in German society is North/South (and actually, Catholic/Protestant, which broadly runs North/South but not entirely - see the Rheinland for an exception). Rostock is traditionally a Northern German/Hansiatic/Protestant city no different from Kiel, Hamburg, Lubuck, etc.

The East/West division was solely a concoction of the Cold War. 50 years is not a very long time in the history of the German nation, and I think you'll find that Rostock has a lot more in common culturally with Kiel than it does with Erfurt.