Cristiano Ronaldo or Brazilian Ronaldo

[Big Soccer Member]

I have seen you attempting to dig up this pic to post here. However I think you will find that just cos Hleb's family put up a banner that this does not mean all Arsenal fans concur. I am sure Eboue's family put up a banner saying Eboue is the new Garrincha but this does not make it true.

I have put the Hleb/Pires question to Arsenal. Take a look at the thread to gauge their opinions on the issue.
Pires is the best winger mentioned on this thread so far. Hleb is not fit to lace his boots.

P.S Ronaldo is not a winger.

[revelationx]

Your desperation has no bounds does it? If i had only watched hleb at arsenal and not before nor with his international games then i too would think pires creates more. You have made it blatantly obvious that you have no clue on the player as you have to ask where hleb played at arsenal, that alone throws all of your credibility out the window.
And since you have a hard time with comprehension ill explain the stuttgart fans comment. You foolishly suggested to post the question to arsenal fans but if you wanted a true answer on the player's abilities you should ask the fans that witnessed him play his natural position, and i dont know why you have to ask anyone, can't make the decision on your own? if you dont know the player's strengths nor the position he plays you have no credibility in the matter.

And i am no hleb expert but unlike you i have watched his games for the national side and before arsenal and know how he plays in his natural position.

I have a hard time comprehending your illogical arguments. You said that Hleb did not play as an attacking midfielder. I then asked you what position would you say he played at Arsenal. You then somehow interpret this as meaning I did not have an opinion on where he played. This is illogical as I have previously stated he was played as an attacking midfielder. It is you who have not declared an opinion on his position at Arsenal. I ask again what position would you say Hleb played at Arsenal? Stop avoiding this question.

Then I stated categorically that my opinion of Hleb was based solely on my personally witnessing Hleb play numerous games for Arsenal and not based on second hand vicarious accounts. This was in response to your suggestion to me to ask Stuttgart fans about Hleb. Why would I do this when my assessment of Hleb is based on my own viewings? You then made the spurious claim that Hleb at Arsenal was better than Pires at creating chances and had better ball control. I then put this question to Arsenal fans who agreed with me that you are talking out of your a@se.

Only a clown would seek to assess Hleb's game and seek to put more weight on events of 4 seasons ago rather than more recent events. This is precisely what you are seeking to do. You are simply unable to admit that Hleb is an attacking midfielder and one who is rubbish at scoring goals. You can also state his lack of versatility is a weakness if you are blaming his poor form on playing in a postion you regard as not being optimal (not that you will offer an opinion on the positions that he was playing in at Arsenal) Everyone else can accept this truth apart from you. Your love for Hleb is blinding you and preventing you from accepting that not everyone creams themselves when Hleb appears on TV.

You seem to hate C Ronaldo and this is palpable in your increasingly futile criticisms of his game. Similarly you have an unremitting and startling admiration for Hleb - a player who neither deserves such regard and who is completely inferior to a player C Ronaldo who you consistently criticise. In the light of this it is your agenda and credibility that must be (and is) regarded with some amusement and suspicion and a great deal of pity. Keep spouting your nonsensical opinions and let those of us who have a reality-based view keep discussing reality-based football topics. ;)

[revelationx]

Doesn't that happen with most players who leave a club on their terms; fans tend to say that they weren't any good in the first place. This clearly demonstrates that some Arsenal fans thought of him that highly then; a quick search of the web or BS itself sometime last Nov/Dec would confirm that most of them thought of him pretty highly.
Their opinions on Flamini or Hleb now is obviously no indicator of their actual opinions.

So by that logic you can offer no valid opinions on Cantona, Beckham, Best or Keane as this would be no indicator of your actual opinions! Is this what you are actually trying to claim? You might have to consider the implications of your future on BS if you stand by that claim. Are you really trying to say that your opinions on these players is of no worth and should be discounted?

[cr7torossi]

So by that logic you can offer no valid opinions on Cantona, Beckham, Best or Keane as this would be no indicator of your actual opinions! Is this what you are actually trying to claim? You might have to consider the implications of your future on BS if you stand by that claim. Are you really trying to say that your opinions on these players is of no worth and should be discounted?

None of those players mentioned left the club on their own terms did they?
Beckham was happy at United but Fergie wanted him out. Same with Keane. Cantona retired after Utd.

It is a different thing when you ask Arsenal fans about Flamini (who left them for Milan) or a Spurs fans about Berbatov. There is where (obvious) prejudice kicks in.

[phil80]

You said that Hleb did not play as an attacking midfielder. I then asked you what position would you say he played at Arsenal. You then somehow interpret this as meaning I did not have an opinion on where he played. This is illogical as I have previously stated he was played as an attacking midfielder. It is you who have not declared an opinion on his position at Arsenal. I ask again what position would you say Hleb played at Arsenal? Stop avoiding this question.

You then made the spurious claim that Hleb at Arsenal was better than Pires at creating chances and had better ball control. I then put this question to Arsenal fans who agreed with me that you are talking out of your a@se.

Only a clown would seek to assess Hleb's game and seek to put more weight on events of 4 seasons ago rather than more recent events.

Hleb - a player who neither deserves such regard and who is completely inferior to a player C Ronaldo who you consistently criticise.

It is quite amusing watching you squirm, but not much more is expected from a poster who has no clue what they're talking about. I could dissect each and every nonsensical line you posted, but ill only address the most blaring absurdities.

Since you have already embarrased yourself by not knowing what position he played with Arsenal, ill decide to throw you a bone. Hleb was not used as an attacking mid for most of arsenal's games. He was more as a wing player, not a true winger, but an outside mid. In his last season he sometimes played as supporting striker behind adebayor. Now, you wouldve known that if you actually watched the games instead of talking out your a**.

Second, focus on reading comprehension since you are severly lacking in that department. The issue was who creates more chances and who has better ball control OVERALL and not just at arsenal. You are either intentionally adding the part about only at arsenal or are too stupid to have comprehended it the first time.

Third, only a clown would think scoring is the only aspect to an attacking player's game and tries to compare goal scoring records between players of different positions.

Lastly, criticizing Ronaldo does not mean hleb is the better player. You foolishly claiming so shows how clueless you are. So my advice is to go back and actually watch the games and players that you are commenting on and leave the adults to do the discussing.

[revelationx]

It is quite amusing watching you squirm, but not much more is expected from a poster who has no clue what they're talking about. I could dissect each and every nonsensical line you posted, but ill only address the most blaring absurdities.

Since you have already embarrased yourself by not knowing what position he played with Arsenal, ill decide to throw you a bone. Hleb was not used as an attacking mid for most of arsenal's games. He was more as a wing player, not a true winger, but an outside mid. In his last season he sometimes played as supporting striker behind adebayor. Now, you wouldve known that if you actually watched the games instead of talking out your a**.

Second, focus on reading comprehension since you are severly lacking in that department. The issue was who creates more chances and who has better ball control OVERALL and not just at arsenal. You are either intentionally adding the part about only at arsenal or are too stupid to have comprehended it the first time.

Third, only a clown would think scoring is the only aspect to an attacking player's game and tries to compare goal scoring records between players of different positions.

Lastly, criticizing Ronaldo does not mean hleb is the better player. You foolishly claiming so shows how clueless you are. So my advice is to go back and actually watch the games and players that you are commenting on and leave the adults to do the discussing.

You did not dissect my 'nonsensical' lines because everyone who has seen your posting history is aware you lack the required intelligence to do so. It is evident by your pathetic attempts to hide Hleb's appalling goal scoring record by bringing up his form from his time in Germany and giving this more importance than his more recent seasons at Arsenal.

Only someone who is plainly losing an argument would attempt to claim Hleb playing as an outside wing is not playing as an attacking midfielder. An attacking player on the wing is clearly an attacking midfielder. Only in your fairy-tale world is the wing not part of midfield. In the world of reality Hleb playing as an attacker on the wing comes under the description of attacking midfielder. Also on the occasions last season when Hleb was playing in the hole the fact that he hardly scored is an even worse indictment because being able to score from that position is even more of a required quality.

Your embarrassing diatribes against C Ronaldo in this very thread, reveal how one-eyed, subjective and biased you are. Your man-crush on Hleb has also revealed how much you embrace double-standards. You nitpick C Ronaldo's game to an hysterical level and yet fail to allow similar standards to be applied to your BFF Hleb. When someone says Hleb is overrated and dares to have a differing opinion you spit out the dummy and start bleating the following...

a) Hleb used to be good and we should forget about his time in Arsenal when he was not so good!

b) You then blatantly lie about Hleb not playing as an attacking midfielder and infer he should not thus be expected to score.

c) admit in another thread (in which virtually every poster disagreed with your assertion that Hleb created more chances than Pires while at Arsenal) that Hleb played as an attacker in midfield, contradicting your earlier objections to him being classified by me as an attacking midfielder. You then belatedly admit (when pressed by me) that Hleb did play in the hole, knowing full well that for someone playing in such an advanced position should clearly be expected to weigh in with some goals. Your ludicrous claim that Hleb played in a position such that he should not be expected to have such a poor goalscoring tally was contradicted by your reluctant admission that Hleb played some games in the hole or as a split striker.

d) Your latest weak argument is stating that it is somehow strange to compare attacking midfielders and the number of goals they score. You are only taking such a position because you know that Hleb is embarrassed when such comparisons to his peers are made. You make another false claim and state that I have said that goalscoring is the only measure of a player. Nowhere has this been stated by me. On the contrary, I feel that players should be compared with their peers and this comparision should include goal-scoring when it comes to attacking players. Hleb plainly is an attacking player.

As for my reading comprehension, I noticed you were unable to spell the word severely correctly and that you failed to use capital letters when spelling Hleb and Arsenal and Adebayor. You also had problems spelling I'll.

Phil80, the more you post, the more this forum becomes convinced you are sitting in the corner, wearing a big hat with a 'D' on it. Keep going, Phil80. Logic or indeed football is plainly not your forte. Perhaps if you went to some games you might learn something. You are just getting owned both here and in that thread on the Arsenal forum. Still I guess it means Teso can take a break from calling you out for posting garbage.

[phil80]

(Panting like a little girl)
It is hysterical watching you get your panties in a bunch. I've decided it's impossible to debate a simpleton that lacks basic reading comprehension skiills, so ill leave you alone to throw your idiotic tantrum elsewhere. When you realize that a football player is not solely judged on goals scored and that Xavi, Hleb, and Lampard all played different positions, then you can rejoin the conversation, until then take your mental diarrhea to a more appropriate thead where posters dont notice how idiotic you sound.

[revelationx]

It is hysterical watching you get your panties in a bunch. I've decided it's impossible to debate a simpleton that lacks basic reading comprehension skiills, so ill leave you alone to throw your idiotic tantrum elsewhere. When you realize that a football player is not solely judged on goals scored and that Xavi, Hleb, and Lampard all played different positions, then you can rejoin the conversation, until then take your mental diarrhea to a more appropriate thead where posters dont notice how idiotic you sound.

I think our dispute has got a bit heated and it might be time to call a truce.

I apologise to Phil80 for becoming insulting and personal over our disagreement about a player. We'll have to accept we disagree on this issue. I also apologise to the rest of the thread for going off-topic about Hleb.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I cannot be bothered having a simultaneous argument across two separate boards. If anyone does wish to continue the discussion then let me know whether to post here or on the Arsenal board.

[F.L.I.P.]

Prime for prime, R9 was on another level, nearing the GOAT level - almost close to the Pele/Maradona level...

[celito]

Prime for prime, R9 was on another level, nearing the GOAT level - almost close to the Pele/Maradona level...

Lather, rinse, and repeat ... :p

[zippy85]

My god this full video is amazing, Its five mins but its the best football vid I have seen.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tOndOgb-dEU

Ronaldo is the best, end of.

[Mysterious]

My god this full video is amazing, Its five mins but its the best football vid I have seen.



Ronaldo is the best, end of.

Good find, his dribbling was out of this world but:

I didn't see one header, one free kick, one amazing pass or one shot outside of the box. Running through defenders half his size was basically all I saw.

[celito]

Good find, his dribbling was out of this world but:

I didn't see one header, one free kick, one amazing pass or one shot outside of the box. Running through defenders half his size was basically all I saw.

- He has had a few headers in his career... although really not his strenght
no free kicks that I can think of ...
- He didn't need to take shots from outside to score, he could just walk in with the ball ... although u must be blind because there were 2 in that video from just outside or outside the box ... plus he has scored quite a few from outside ...
- Defenders half his size ? pffffff ... he would have killed EPL defenses

[Mysterious]

-although u must be blind because there were 2 in that video from just outside or outside the box ... plus he has scored quite a few from outside ...


LAWLZ.... I could probably show you 8 from Cristiano last year alone... You're talking a highlight reel spanning 12 years...

I thought we were talking the more COMPLETE player... You're saying headers were'nt R9's greatest strength, LMAO, a LEGEND should be able to head the ball ...NO? (see Henry.) Where is the passing? Where are the free kicks? I'll even give PURE dribbling ability and smoothness to C. Ronaldo, granted as of yet not as many displays have ended up in goals but we still have about 9 years to cross that bridge right?

"R9 would kill BPL defenses".....

Just like Michael Jordan would average 50 points if he played today, Babe Ruth would hit 80 homeruns, Ali would knockout Tyson in the first round, Nickalous would own Tiger and Richard Petty would'nt lose a race... :rolleyes:

[Silva 5]

LAWLZ.... I could probably show you 8 from Cristiano last year alone... You're talking a highlight reel spanning 12 years...

I thought we were talking the more COMPLETE player... You're saying headers were'nt R9's greatest strength, LMAO, a LEGEND should be able to head the ball ...NO? (see Henry.) Where is the passing? Where are the free kicks? I'll even give PURE dribbling ability and smoothness to C. Ronaldo, granted as of yet not as many displays have ended up in goals but we still have about 9 years to cross that bridge right?

"R9 would kill BPL defenses".....

Just like Michael Jordan would average 50 points if he played today, Babe Ruth would hit 80 homeruns, Ali would knockout Tyson in the first round, Nickalous would own Tiger and Richard Petty would'nt lose a race... :rolleyes:

It's not really about being a complete player. It's about doing your specific job better than anyone else and arguably from about 1996-2002 he did it better than anyone else, but even after that he still managed to score 83 goals in 127 appearances for Madrid, that's outrageous.

It's rediculous that we're comparing these two, the only reason this is even a topic is because of their name, or nickname...because, you have people who will say, "Ronaldo couldn't do what Cristiano does" or the opposite.

The fact of the matter is, Ronaldo is a modern day legend and 10-20 years from now he will more than likely be considered one of the greatest of all time. As for Cristiano, he's still young and has only had one 'player of he year' caliber campaign. We'll see if he can do it consistently throughout his career.

[zippy85]

The fact of the matter is, Ronaldo is a modern day legend and 10-20 years from now he will more than likely be considered one of the greatest of all time. As for Cristiano, he's still young and has only had one 'player of he year' caliber campaign. We'll see if he can do it consistently throughout his career.
I don't like Ronaldo but he has had two, he should have won it last year too, plus he has cleaned up full house on awards for the last two premier league seasons.

[celito]

LAWLZ.... I could probably show you 8 from Cristiano last year alone... You're talking a highlight reel spanning 12 years...

I thought we were talking the more COMPLETE player... You're saying headers were'nt R9's greatest strength, LMAO, a LEGEND should be able to head the ball ...NO? (see Henry.) Where is the passing? Where are the free kicks? I'll even give PURE dribbling ability and smoothness to C. Ronaldo, granted as of yet not as many displays have ended up in goals but we still have about 9 years to cross that bridge right?

"R9 would kill BPL defenses".....

Just like Michael Jordan would average 50 points if he played today, Babe Ruth would hit 80 homeruns, Ali would knockout Tyson in the first round, Nickalous would own Tiger and Richard Petty would'nt lose a race... :rolleyes:

That's a short highlight reel. Go watch more before talking. He scored plenty from outside. Here are a couple from outside the box for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsq39jkAxU&feature=related

But I am not saying he scored more from outside the box than C.Ronaldo has (or will). Ronaldo is a striker, CR is a winger/AM. Obviously CR will take a lot more shots from outside. Anyways ... Ronaldo has scored a whole lot more by leaveing goalies on their asses and walking the ball in as CR has scored from outside the box.

Ronaldo never had to develop the header. He always played in teams that played the ball on the ground. Man. U. crosses the ball quite a bit. So it's natural for a player of his talent to develop that skill.

The passing ??? If you ever watched him you'd know. His highlights are mostly filled with goals and dribbling because they were so overwhelming. But thanks to youtube, here are some examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc8mncccQLY (nice one on min 2:38)

Very blurry ... but, look at min 2:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLI_fEy9ezU

As for your reference to MJ and Babe Rught, they really don't deserve an answer.

[zippy85]

. Man. U. crosses the ball quite a bit. So it's natural for a player of his talent to develop that skill.
.
No they don't and he had that as a youth player in Portugal.

[celito]

No they don't and he had that as a youth player in Portugal.

Ok ... he has good heading skills. I can accept that.