Cristiano Ronaldo or Brazilian Ronaldo

[joker_______:')]

this debate is really stupid! Because Beaver Ronaldo's career is over, and Giraffe Ronaldo's career just started. They also play differnt styles and positions, you should compare Beaver Ronaldo to strikers like Henry or Van horseteroid, and Giraffe Ronaldo to Zidane or Ronaldinho. Bottom line is these guy's are both great players, just enjoy watching them, this debate is like comparing Red vs Blue.

[phil80]

ronaldo and zidane didnt play the same position

[joker_______:')]

ronaldo and zidane didnt play the same position

No, but they are more comparable then Striker vs Wing, Cristiano Ronaldo in all fairness should not be asked to score 42 goals a season, his job is to provide the ball from the wing and make plays which he does. The scoring part is great, but, like a Zidane, or Ronaldinho, there job is to provide the ball to a Ronaldo or Henry. So in Cristiano Ronaldo's case, it's quite fascinating and remarkable what he accomplished last season, No winger I know can say he scored three times as much as his strikers. Man Utd owe him BIG!!!!

[phil80]

yes, but not to take anything away from him, he did take most (if not all) of his side's freekicks and penalties, which you dont always see a winger taking nearly all the pk's

[comme]

No, but they are more comparable then Striker vs Wing, Cristiano Ronaldo in all fairness should not be asked to score 42 goals a season, his job is to provide the ball from the wing and make plays which he does. The scoring part is great, but, like a Zidane, or Ronaldinho, there job is to provide the ball to a Ronaldo or Henry. So in Cristiano Ronaldo's case, it's quite fascinating and remarkable what he accomplished last season, No winger I know can say he scored three times as much as his strikers. Man Utd owe him BIG!!!!

He's not actually a winger anymore though. He's a forward who often attacks from wide areas. He had more shots last season, I believe, than any other player in the league. No winger ever does that either.

[revelationx]

He's not actually a winger anymore though. He's a forward who often attacks from wide areas. He had more shots last season, I believe, than any other player in the league. No winger ever does that either.

C Ronaldo has had the most shots of any player in the Premier League in both of the last 2 seasons. This is directly linked to his goal-scoring tallies. The stats plainly show that the players who take the most shots score the most goals - this is consistently the case over a league season.

http://telegraph.jumpmediagroup.com/PlayerStat.aspx?p1id=5127&p2id=3789

[Teso Dos Bichos]

yes, but not to take anything away from him, he did take most (if not all) of his side's freekicks and penalties, which you dont always see a winger taking nearly all the pk's

So what? Are you going to take freekicks and penalties away from every player to make your comparison fair? Even if you did Ronaldo still scored over 30 goals as a non-striker.

C Ronaldo has had the most shots of any player in the Premier League in both of the last 2 seasons. This is directly linked to his goal-scoring tallies. The stats plainly show that the players who take the most shots score the most goals - this is consistently the case over a league season.

http://telegraph.jumpmediagroup.com/PlayerStat.aspx?p1id=5127&p2id=3789

The most important factor is the conversion rate. Look at Lampard in previous international tournaments as evidence that total shots does not automatically equate to a high goal tally. When you then factor in that Ronaldo takes penalites and the bulk of our set-pieces then you would expect his shot tally to be higher than the average attacking player. Crucially though his conversion rate remains one of the best despite this. When you consider the nature of freekicks it is not something you would expect to happen. The shift from Van Nistelrooy to Saha to Berbatov has been done to give players like Ronaldo more freedom to play their natural game and to get into positions to make a difference. It also enables him to be more selective in his shots as opposed to a traditional winger.

[comme]

Look at Lampard in previous international tournaments as evidence that total shots does not automatically equate to a high goal tally.

Which ones would those be then?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Oh I do apologise for my horrible crime. My intention was previous tournaments, as in going back a few, but I now understand how certain individuals could be confused. I do hope it does not detract from my overall point.

[comme]

It's pretty pointless to use such a small sample as the 2006 WC as any sort of representative sample though, otherwise we could point to John O'Shea in 2006-7 and show that his 4 goals came from 5 shots. By that reckoning he was the best "striker" in the Premiership.

Of course shots alone is not going to dictate goals scored, but the fact is that Ronaldo's goal scoring has happened in the period that he has changed into a forward and begun to take on more shots. Clearly he is not a conventional winger any more.

[nicephoras]

:rolleyes:

1. Lampard's scoring record in his first tournament was pretty good, actually. (Scored twice.) Not so good in his second.
2. Going by a 3/4/5 game sample is pointless. In order for statistics to have meaning, you need large sample sizes. Otherwise you get skewed statistics of little value.

[comme]

:rolleyes:

1. Lampard's scoring record in his first tournament was pretty good, actually. (Scored twice.) Not so good in his second.
2. Going by a 3/4/5 game sample is pointless. In order for statistics to have meaning, you need large sample sizes. Otherwise you get skewed statistics of little value.

He actually scored 3 in Euro 2004. One against France, one against Croatia and one against Portugal. But yeah, the point remains.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I never intended it to be a representative sample but merely one example, and a very high profile one at that, which people could look at to see total shots does not automatically equate to a high goal figure. It also links in to what I said previously about conversion rate being the most important.

I also never said that Ronaldo is a conventional winger but that he does play from the wing. Regardless of the specific positional term you use the fact remains that he is clearly not a striker. The difference in his role and maturity from 05/06 to the present is telling. He is taking less overall shots (06/07 compared to 07/08) but he is getting more on target and converting more to goals. It is down to him having more time to take appropriate shots and in better positions because of the added freedom we have given him in the team. Instead of trying to take every chance he gets when getting forward as a winger he now has the composure to, more often than not, make the right choices. It has been interesting to watch and the inclusion of Berbatov should help him to continue.

[nicephoras]

He actually scored 3 in Euro 2004. One against France, one against Croatia and one against Portugal. But yeah, the point remains.

I forgot about the Croatia one, that's right. Also scored a lot of goals leading up to the Euros - was England's leading scorer, as I recall.

[comme]

I forgot about the Croatia one, that's right. Also scored a lot of goals leading up to the Euros - was England's leading scorer, as I recall.

I was at those games, so easier to remember. He was top scorer I think (or one of them) in qualifying for the WC 2006.

[revelationx]

So what? Are you going to take freekicks and penalties away from every player to make your comparison fair? Even if you did Ronaldo still scored over 30 goals as a non-striker.



The most important factor is the conversion rate. Look at Lampard in previous international tournaments as evidence that total shots does not automatically equate to a high goal tally. When you then factor in that Ronaldo takes penalites and the bulk of our set-pieces then you would expect his shot tally to be higher than the average attacking player. Crucially though his conversion rate remains one of the best despite this. When you consider the nature of freekicks it is not something you would expect to happen. The shift from Van Nistelrooy to Saha to Berbatov has been done to give players like Ronaldo more freedom to play their natural game and to get into positions to make a difference. It also enables him to be more selective in his shots as opposed to a traditional winger.

Data from Premiership games demonstrates conclusively that the top scorers are the players who take the most shots. Data from an international tournament is from 6 or 7 games at most and is too short a sample. This season so far the players who have taken the most shots in Prem matches are...Zaki and Adebayor - they are also the two players at the top of the Prem scoring charts. The lesson is clear - if you want to be top scorer - be willing to shoot.

[cr7torossi]

Data from Premiership games demonstrates conclusively that the top scorers are the players who take the most shots. Data from an international tournament is from 6 or 7 games at most and is too short a sample. This season so far the players who have taken the most shots in Prem matches are...Zaki and Adebayor - they are also the two players at the top of the Prem scoring charts. The lesson is clear - if you want to be top scorer - be willing to shoot.

You also need to get into good positions to shoot; just shooting all the time from 20+ yards out doesn't get you goals (unless if you are Lampard;))

[tadm123]

The Real Ronaldo is better, not because i don't like C.Ronaldo, but because he's the most complete/best striker i'd seen. Don't think theres anyone in terms of attack and goals better than him

[Mysterious]

The Real Ronaldo is better, not because i don't like C.Ronaldo, but because he's the most complete/best striker i'd seen. Don't think theres anyone in terms of attack and goals better than him

C. Ronaldo is two footed, deadly with his head, passes beautifully, a free kick specialist, posesses sublime dribbling ability, can shoot accurately from range and in two years he led his club to back to back league titles, a CL title and is capable of scoring 40+ goals from the wing. Please explain how anyone can be more "complete" than that.

[revelationx]

C. Ronaldo is two footed, deadly with his head, passes beautifully, a free kick specialist, posesses sublime dribbling ability, can shoot accurately from range and in two years he led his club to back to back league titles, a CL title and is capable of scoring 40+ goals from the wing. Please explain how anyone can be more "complete" than that.

Well he could improve his tackling! :D