Cristiano Ronaldo or Brazilian Ronaldo

[celito]

Yes ... it's tough to say, every point there will be a counter point. I think R9 scored more from open play. I believe 5 of CRs goals were from FKs. PKs are the same (I believe 6 for each).

CR is not a true striker, but in many (possibly a majority) of his open play goals he was pretty much playing as one based on his positioning.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Not debating it was an amazing season for Ronaldo ... but IMO Henry's 02-03 and 03-04 seasons was very similar. Almost the same amount of goals and more assists (specially in 02-3 where he had 36 goals and 23 assists).

As you know, Henry used to be a winger as well and played a pretty similar position at Arsenal.

When you consider the number of chances that have been spurned by his teammates then I'm not surprised that Ronaldo's assist figures took a hit this season. Either way you are comparing a far more mature player (and team) in Henry/Arsenal to that of Ronaldo/Man Utd. Despite that he has already beaten in many respects (or been very close to beating) a 'peak' Henry.

Ronaldo (R9)

League: 34 goals in 37 games

Europe: 8 goals in 5 games

Cup: 5 goals in 7 games

Brazil: 15 goals in 17 games

Season: 1996/97

Total: 62 goals in 66 games.

5 goals in 7 Cup Winners Cup games.

5 goals in 6 Copa America appearances were the only competitive games he played for Brazil during that time period.

[Hendrixforpope]

Good Lord, this arguing through statistics is driving me crazy :D

[Teso Dos Bichos]

All I am doing is correcting the inaccuracies or, as I prefer to call them, the dishonesties.

[Hendrixforpope]

All I am doing is correcting the inaccuracies or, as I prefer to call them, the dishonesties.

Fair enough.

[celito]

When you consider the number of chances that have been spurned by his teammates then I'm not surprised that Ronaldo's assist figures took a hit this season. Either way you are comparing a far more mature player (and team) in Henry/Arsenal to that of Ronaldo/Man Utd. Despite that he has already beaten in many respects (or been very close to beating) a 'peak' Henry.


OK ... so by unprecedent you meant for his performance at his age. Different story.

But to be honest, Henry's season where he scored 36 goals and 23 assists will be very tough to top. 6 less goals but 15 more assists than Ronaldo this year. Maybe he can top that ... we'll have to see.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

My fundamental point was that pre-injury Ronaldo is widely considered to have been the best striker (or even player) of his generation and a shoe in to a very high placing in the accepted top players of all-time list. Now contrast his peak pre-injury season to the one that Cristiano Ronaldo has just had. You really need to question why the latter has not received the praise he merits for a season that is unprecedented for a non-striker in the modern game.



EDIT: Just seen your post celito...

In 06/07 Ronaldo scored 23 goals and had 21 assists in 53 games.
In 07/08 Ronaldo scored 42 goals and had 8 assists in 48 games.

The assist figure is only for the CL and EPL. As someone that has watched the vast majority of games this season I can tell you that Ronaldo was still creating a lot of chances but the key difference was Rooney and Tevez managed to squander a significant number of them. If he had managed to get the same number of assists in 07/08 would you have said differently in regard to comparing his best season to that of Henry? Henry was playing with the likes of Pires, Wiltord and Bergkamp at the time, the former duo being at their 'peak' as well. It makes a huge difference.

[Hendrixforpope]

My fundamental point was that pre-injury Ronaldo is widely considered to have been the best striker (or even player) of his generation and a shoe in to a very high placing in the accepted top players of all-time list. Now contrast his peak pre-injury season to the one that Cristiano Ronaldo has just had. You really need to question why the latter has not received the praise he merits for a season that is unprecedented for a non-striker in the modern game.

Because he's Portuguese and playing in England. If he were Brazilian and playing in Spain (like Ronaldo was at Barca), it would be a whole different matter. That's just life.

[cr7torossi]

Because he's Portuguese and playing in England. If he were Brazilian and playing in Spain (like Ronaldo was at Barca), it would be a whole different matter. That's just life.

True.

[celito]

My fundamental point was that pre-injury Ronaldo is widely considered to have been the best striker (or even player) of his generation and a shoe in to a very high placing in the accepted top players of all-time list. Now contrast his peak pre-injury season to the one that Cristiano Ronaldo has just had. You really need to question why the latter has not received the praise he merits for a season that is unprecedented for a non-striker in the modern game.



EDIT: Just seen your post celito...

In 06/07 Ronaldo scored 23 goals and had 21 assists in 53 games.
In 07/08 Ronaldo scored 42 goals and had 8 assists in 48 games.

The assist figure is only for the CL and EPL. As someone that has watched the vast majority of games this season I can tell you that Ronaldo was still creating a lot of chances but the key difference was Rooney and Tevez managed to squander a significant number of them. If he had managed to get the same number of assists in 07/08 would you have said differently in regard to comparing his best season to that of Henry? Henry was playing with the likes of Pires, Wiltord and Bergkamp at the time, the former duo being at their 'peak' as well. It makes a huge difference.


If Ronaldo had 40 goals 20 assists ... sure. But it's impossible to say. We don't really know how many goals Henry's team mates squandered goals that he created during that season. You may be right ... but who knows.

I did notice that Ronaldo held the ball more this season and started playing closer to the goal. Maybe you can confirm or refute this claim since you've watched them play more. I do play fantasy football on yahoo and noticed he had a lot less crosses this year.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

As I said in another thread... who do we cross to? Neither Tevez nor Rooney are great in the air and they have been missing chances all season long on the ground. With our change in formation allowing Ronaldo to play his natural game in the final third I am not surprised to find him holding onto the ball more and not crossing as much when the chance of his 'assist' being converted is not the greatest. It's a by-product of not fielding a striker.

[Antonio81]

Internationally, Ronaldo was on 2 WC winning teams and is the all World Cup top scorer. He won a Confederations Cup, 2 Copa Americas, was the 1998 WC´s best player, and was WC 2002´s best field player and top scorer.

He won a Brazilian Cup with Cruzeiro, Dutch Cup with PSV, Cup Winners Cup and Spanish Super Cup with Barcelona, UEFA cup with Internationale, the World Club Cup and UEFA SuperCup with AC Milan, and and Intercontinental Cup, Spanish Super Cup, and La Liga title with Real Madrid.

When CRonaldo tops that at the end of his career I´´ll concede him the better player. He couldn´t even lead Portugal past that powerhouse Greece at home.

[Antonio81]

Internationally, Ronaldo was on 2 WC winning teams and is the all World Cup top scorer. He won a Confederations Cup, 2 Copa Americas, was the 1998 WC´s best player, and was WC 2002´s best field player and top scorer.

He won a Brazilian Cup with Cruzeiro, Dutch Cup with PSV, Cup Winners Cup and Spanish Super Cup with Barcelona, UEFA cup with Internationale, the World Club Cup and UEFA SuperCup with AC Milan, and and Intercontinental Cup, Spanish Super Cup, and La Liga title with Real Madrid.

When CRonaldo tops that at the end of his career I´ll concede him the better player. He couldn´t even lead Portugal past that powerhouse Greece at home.

[Hendrixforpope]

He won a Brazilian Cup with Cruzeiro, Dutch Cup with PSV, Cup Winners Cup and Spanish Super Cup with Barcelona, UEFA cup with Internationale, the World Club Cup and UEFA SuperCup with AC Milan, and and Intercontinental Cup, Spanish Super Cup, and La Liga title with Real Madrid.


Ronaldo didn't even play in either of those games, he wasn't even on the bench. :rolleyes:

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Plus team achievements often has little to do with the respective quality of any individual player. Don't let your ignorance force us into the Roque Junior argument again.

[Hendrixforpope]

Plus team achievements often has little to do with the respective quality of any individual player. Don't let your ignorance force us into the Roque Junior argument again.

Yes, but it's one of the only ways there are to compare players.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Not true. The ignorant in our midst prefer to use it simply because it requires less effort and brain cells than any other means of comparison.

[Hendrixforpope]

It is the only form of comparison that is based on fact rather than opinion.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

No, it is not. It's also an awful method of comparing players.

[Antonio81]

Ronaldo didn't even play in either of those games, he wasn't even on the bench.He didn´t play in any of the buildup games to those titles either:rolleyes:

Plus team achievements often has little to do with the respective quality of any individual player. Don't let your ignorance force us into the Roque Junior argument again.Correct:rolleyes: Argentina´s and Napoli´s(who had just been promoted to the Serie A) lifting the WC and scudetto had nothing to do with Maradona´s individual brilliance. Neither did Cruyff had anything to do with Holland´s brilliant run in 1974(funny there was a huge difference with him gone in 1978.) Neither did Brazil need Ronaldo in 2002(who was the tournament´s top scorer and voted best player after Oliver Khan.)

Not true. The ignorant in our midst prefer to use it simply because it requires less effort and brain cells than any other means of comparison.So, what have you based CRonaldo´s superiority on? The fact he´s a winger that can score goals? That he does the same stepovers that Robinho/Denilson/Garrincha all did before him? That he had to cheat his way past Holland and England on the world´s highest stage while Ronaldo just did it the old-fashoned way(scoring goals?) Yet you call using the Ronaldo´s leading team after team to lift cups and being repeatedly voted World Player of the year and comparing that to what CRonaldo hasn´t yet achieved ¨ignorant.¨ Funny:D