LD v. Demps

[Lord15]

I was reading the starting lineups v. Spain thread and, regardless of what Coach Bradley is actually going to do, is there any statistical or strategic reason to play Dempsey at forward over Landon beyond 'getting your best 11 on the field?'

Perhaps stated a little broader: Does anyone here choose Dempsey over Landon at forward?

[Bajoro]

Just a hunch, but I think most people would rather see Dempsey up top and Donovan somewhat withdrawn.

[Maximum Optimal]

There have been times when Dempsey has been used alone at forward, and he is probably better suited for that than Donovan. However, if we are going with two forwards, as in our last match against Mexico, I think it makes more sense to have Dempsey at right mid. To me Altidore-Donovan are a more complementary pair than Altidore-Dempsey.

[Alan S]

Dempsey is better at crashing into the box, and Donovan is better and passing and shots from distance. Donovan withdrawn, and Dempsey at forward.

[TulkasTheStrong]

There have been times when Dempsey has been used alone at forward, and he is probably better suited for that than Donovan. However, if we are going with two forwards, as in our last match against Mexico, I think it makes more sense to have Dempsey at right mid. To me Altidore-Donovan are a more complementary pair than Altidore-Dempsey.

I agree with this very much. With Jozy in the mix at forward, I'd rather have Donovan at striker. But if we're just talking forward Dempsey is obviously a better choice.

But personally I like a 4-2-3-1 where Dempsey and Donovan are the middle and right of the 3 where they can swap easily and fluidly. Beasley and possibly Adu as the left of that 3 and things look pretty nice :).

[flash1316]

They are both great forwards. Donovan is currently our greatest forward of all time. The best thing to do is put them both in a formation along with Adu that lets all three play as forwards. With Altidore at striker. That's why the 4-2-3-1 makes sense.
--------Altidore

Donovan--Adu--Dempsey

It allows all of them to play to their greatest strengths. Adu is strictly at his best as a CAM and a potential gamewinner in the role. Dempsey is at his best farther out wide where he has the freedom dribble people his greatest skill in addition to his goalscoring abilities that make him our most in form forward right now. While Donovan is the most versatile of the forwards so gets pushed out left where he plays a role similar to Joe Cole in the loosest definition. He is expected to bring the majority of the creativity in the team, the #10, although not in a traditional #10 role. Donovan is at his best when he's surronded by players who can operate at his level of one-touch passing, speed, and vision in the final third and also when he plays forward where his job title is to score goals and create. As the left forward he doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility of being the man in the middle and will be able to run past defenders and combine when cutting outside. It also doesn't take anything away from his wonderful attacking ability the way forcing him to play out of position deep at right mid does, because he's a forward in this formation.

[Seanin]

It depends on what you want out of your wide midfielders. If you want someone who can crash the box, head crosses at the far post, beat defenders on the dribble and cross with both feet, I think Dempsey is an excellent candidate. I prefer to see Donovan close to goal with the ball at his feet, or at least facing the last defender. Dempsey doesn't have the speed, explosiveness or raw power to thrive as a forward.

[IndividualEleven]

I was reading the starting lineups v. Spain thread and, regardless of what Coach Bradley is actually going to do, is there any statistical or strategic reason to play Dempsey at forward over Landon beyond 'getting your best 11 on the field?'

Perhaps stated a little broader: Does anyone here choose Dempsey over Landon at forward?

Bradley generally plays both forwards 'up top' rather than for example having one in a more withdrawn position as one would expect given the formation.

If you're going to play both forwards that way, then Dempsey is definately better suited to the role.

Generally speaking Dempsey has been the superior scorer from the run of play against the better teams in the forward slot. LD has demonstrated that he can be highly influential both defensively and in the attack from the right flank.

[Marko72]

Well, given that Bradley's system goes with 2 deeper-lying center mids )who don't get a chance to get forward all that much when attempting to contain good opposition), 2 wingers, and 2 forwards, I'd rather have Dempsey in the box with guys in his face, and Donovan out wide in space, for a number of reasons that I've gone into in other threads. I think that situation benefits both players' strengths more.

However... in some matches (depending on the opposition's defensive personnel), Altidore-Donovan (Donovan and Dempsey switching places) might make more sense. I'll concede that those two are more complimentary, at least theoretically.

My guess is that we'll see a bit of both as time goes on, and who knows which will prove more successful.

[IndividualEleven]

Altidore-LD would make sense if BB wanted to play Donovan in the hole. In the normal setup Altidore and Demps are playing with their backs to goal--not really a Donovan strength. In Altidore and Dempsey Bradley has two forwards who can hold the ball up, draw fouls, get to some headers, and beat players with the dribble. This is basically what BB needs to make the formation and tactics work. With Donovan on the right that's 1/2 of the attacking puzzle solved.

[PVancouver]

Why didn't you make this a poll?

[mcnaulty21]

They are both great forwards. Donovan is currently our greatest forward of all time. The best thing to do is put them both in a formation along with Adu that lets all three play as forwards. With Altidore at striker. That's why the 4-2-3-1 makes sense.
--------Altidore

Donovan--Adu--Dempsey

It allows all of them to play to their greatest strengths. Adu is strictly at his best as a CAM and a potential gamewinner in the role. Dempsey is at his best farther out wide where he has the freedom dribble people his greatest skill in addition to his goalscoring abilities that make him our most in form forward right now. While Donovan is the most versatile of the forwards so gets pushed out left where he plays a role similar to Joe Cole in the loosest definition. He is expected to bring the majority of the creativity in the team, the #10, although not in a traditional #10 role. Donovan is at his best when he's surronded by players who can operate at his level of one-touch passing, speed, and vision in the final third and also when he plays forward where his job title is to score goals and create. As the left forward he doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility of being the man in the middle and will be able to run past defenders and combine when cutting outside. It also doesn't take anything away from his wonderful attacking ability the way forcing him to play out of position deep at right mid does, because he's a forward in this formation.What do you do with Beasley then? He was on a very hot streak before he got hurt. Can't keep him off the field.

[socrne1]

Its all about what LD wants. When was the first time LD started on the right hand side, was it before DB came to the galaxy? No! Anybody think that he is trying to emulate a certain club teamate? Wanting to always take all the free kicks, playing on the right side.

He does not have the strive or grit to grind it out in the middle of the park, unless it is the CAM role, or withdrawn forward. Which BB doesn't seem to want to play to that formation. I'm just sayin...

[JonfromVegas]

I think Dempsey should be in the midfield where BB is playing Benny F. Dempsey does a good job holding the ball and connecting with other players... which none of our other midfielders seem to be able to do right now.

Leave Donovan out right and play Freddy right behind Altidore.

[HouseHead78]

Its all about what LD wants. When was the first time LD started on the right hand side, was it before DB came to the galaxy? No! Anybody think that he is trying to emulate a certain club teamate? Wanting to always take all the free kicks, playing on the right side.

He does not have the strive or grit to grind it out in the middle of the park, unless it is the CAM role, or withdrawn forward. Which BB doesn't seem to want to play to that formation. I'm just sayin...

What are you saying? That LD is a Beckham wannabe? Uh, their games couldn't be more different. LD went out wide right when Bradley moved him there. He's been taking set pieces for awhile with the US team. What are you saying, exactly?

[socrne1]

What are you saying? That LD is a Beckham wannabe? Uh, their games couldn't be more different. LD went out wide right when Bradley moved him there. He's been taking set pieces for awhile with the US team. What are you saying, exactly?

Yes I am saying that he is a DB wannabe. Yes I understand that if you look in the past their games were totally different. Could LD be trying to be the DB of American soccer? yes. Luckily we have used different set piece takers the past few games. Is it because Bradley has pushed LD out wide, or is it because he chose to try and take over that spot.

[mcnaulty21]

Yes I am saying that he is a DB wannabe. Yes I understand that if you look in the past their games were totally different. Could LD be trying to be the DB of American soccer? yes. Luckily we have used different set piece takers the past few games. Is it because Bradley has pushed LD out wide, or is it because he chose to try and take over that spot.Assuming this is a question...
It's because Bradley has moved him out wide due to our overflow of central midfielders and lack of outside mids. Donovan doesn't have the power to tell Bob where to play him

[ussoccerFan12358]

I know FSC and ESPN always show the formation as a 4-4-2, but if you watch carefully Dempsey will be the one who drops deeper for the ball while Altidore stays in more of an advanced role.

The past two games I've really liked Donovan on the wing, so I prefer Dempsey withdrawn behind Altidore with Donovan on the wing. If the Dempsey and Donovan feel the opposition will be more easily broken down then they appear to have been given freedom to switch roles, good job Bob!

From a general standpoint though Dempsey is the better withdrawn striker.

[Maximum Optimal]

It surprises me to see how little appreciation there is around here for the value of a forward with speed. Against any half decent side with a half decent coach, you'll see the opposition move up their defensive line and squeeze the field against us if we don't have any speed up top.

[StillKickin]

Its all about what LD wants. When was the first time LD started on the right hand side, was it before DB came to the galaxy? No! Anybody think that he is trying to emulate a certain club teamate? Wanting to always take all the free kicks, playing on the right side.

He does not have the strive or grit to grind it out in the middle of the park, unless it is the CAM role, or withdrawn forward. Which BB doesn't seem to want to play to that formation. I'm just sayin...
I almost don't even want to respond to you, but you've posted this before and so I will.

In a recent interview, Donovan was quoted as saying "Bob's making me play out there. It's a learning process," blah blah blah. Interesting choice of words: Bob's making me play. I don't think it's where he wants to be, but he wants to play and that's where Bob wants him and so that's where he plays.