Bundesliga teams playing abroad?

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

The current disussion in England concerning the possible introduction of a 39th game of their domestic league to be played in East-Asia/Australia/USA has got me thinking about the future of german professional club soccer when it comes to that question.

Obviously it's not an option for the DFL to play an entire Bundesliga matchday outside of Germany simply because of the power of tradition and the lack of international support. The reason for that is simply the lack of former colonies compared to countries like England and Spain. (South-West Africa doesn't seem to be an option here)

But what about the possibility of a DFB-Cup final in a city that has some sort of german heritage (Milwaukee comes to mind but I might be wrong).
Would it be possible to get 30k+ people in a stadium there for a Cup-final between Nuremberg and Stuttgart for example?

I'm interested in your opinion because to be honest I'm not really sure. On the other hand it's a fact that the Bundesliga competes with the likes of the EPL and the Serie A on the international fan-market and if I remember correctly there was an italian Cup final in Tripolis not too long ago.

[nekkibasara]

The current disussion in England concerning the possible introduction of a 39th game of their domestic league to be played in East-Asia/Australia/USA has got me thinking about the future of german professional club soccer when it comes to that question.

Obviously it's not an option for the DFL to play an entire Bundesliga matchday outside of Germany simply because of the power of tradition and the lack of international support. The reason for that is simply the lack of former colonies compared to countries like England and Spain. (South-West Africa doesn't seem to be an option here).

So...you don't think Togo would like to host an entire Bundesliga matchday? :p

But what about the possibility of a DFB-Cup final in a city that has some sort of german heritage (Milwaukee comes to mind but I might be wrong).
Would it be possible to get 30k+ people in a stadium there for a Cup-final between Nuremberg and Stuttgart for example?

I'm interested in your opinion because to be honest I'm not really sure. On the other hand it's a fact that the Bundesliga competes with the likes of the EPL and the Serie A on the international fan-market and if I remember correctly there was an italian Cup final in Tripolis not too long ago.

I could see 30k+ being drawn to a match if some of the more well known German teams were playing.

Milwauke does have good german heritage, but I am not sure that they have a large enough stadium for this.

Venues that I would consider are: Columbus (decent German heritage) or DC (no German heritage but a large number of soccer fans).

[F96]

But what about the possibility of a DFB-Cup final in a city that has some sort of german heritage (Milwaukee comes to mind but I might be wrong).
Would it be possible to get 30k+ people in a stadium there for a Cup-final between Nuremberg and Stuttgart for example?

"Detroit, Detroit - wir fahren nach Detroit!"

Seriously, can you imagine for how long I've been dreaming of seeing 96 play in the cup final in Berlin. This idea is simply too much! :eek:

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

"Detroit, Detroit - wir fahren nach Detroit!"

Seriously, can you imagine for how long I've been dreaming of seeing 96 play in the cup final in Berlin. This idea is simply too much! :eek:

I'm sorry that I have to be the one to tell you but they might never reach a final again. Neither in Berlin nor in Detroit.

[Borussia]

But what about the possibility of a DFB-Cup final in a city that has some sort of german heritage


I can't see a DFB-Cup final taking place abroad, but "Liga-Pokal" matches would be a very good idea!

[The Friendly Ghost]

Milwaukee, Cincinnati, St. Louis come to mind because of their traditional German populations. But none of those cities have a suitable facility (in Milwaukee, they'd have to play at Miller Park, a baseball stadium; I believe Cincy's new football stadium is now turf, not grass; and St. Louis's dome is turf as well).

Chicago (at Soldier Field) would be the best venue. Beyond that, I don't think any one place stands out more than another.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

I can't see a DFB-Cup final taking place abroad, but "Liga-Pokal" matches would be a very good idea!

Me, too. You just have to think of all the people, who supported the team
in the fewer rounds, playing so far away would be like a slap in the face.
Furthermore doing the DFB-cup final anywhere else than Berlin would destroy
a kind of tradition.

But the Liga-Pokal is really a good idea, especially when the DFB/DFL reforms it.

[Alex_K]

Sorry, but this is one of the worst ideas in the history of mankind. There is no need to compete on the "international fan market". Zero. Despite clubs trying to brainwash us into believing it. I wouldn't really be interested in rooting for a travelling circus freak show, but maybe that's just me.

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Sorry, but this is one of the worst ideas in the history of mankind. There is no need to compete on the "international fan market". Zero. Despite clubs trying to brainwash us into believing it. I wouldn't really be interested in rooting for a travelling circus freak show, but maybe that's just me.

In my perosnal opinion industrialisation was an idea that was worse in the history of mankind. anyway...

I don't feel brainwashed but if a cup final could draw a large crows elsewhere it might significantly help what the rest of the world thinks of german club soccer. Do I really care what they think? No but I recon the clubs do since it might be financially beneficial.

[Zak1FCK]

Bundesliga clubs have played training matches in the US over the summer. I know 1860 and Hamburg did several years in Milwaukee.

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Me, too. You just have to think of all the people, who supported the team
in the fewer rounds, playing so far away would be like a slap in the face.
Furthermore doing the DFB-cup final anywhere else than Berlin would destroy
a kind of tradition.

But the Liga-Pokal is really a good idea, especially when the DFB/DFL reforms it.

what do you mean? support by attending the matches in the earlier rounds?? there are a lot of people who'd get into a fight for a ticket for the final that didn't give a sh... about going to the games at earlier stages. And what about those that would really like to support the team but can't because they live across the pond?

[Alex_K]

In my perosnal opinion industrialisation was an idea that was worse in the history of mankind. anyway...

Because subsistence agriculture and famine or the monopolization of political power in the hands of a tiny minority where so awesome?

I don't feel brainwashed but if a cup final could draw a large crows elsewhere it might significantly help what the rest of the world thinks of german club soccer. Do I really care what they think? No but I recon the clubs do since it might be financially beneficial.

Ok, so it might be financially beneficial to the clubs. That's not exactly something I care about too much, I fear. I wish the rest of the world would put more effort into their own leagues instead of helping to ******** up things over here. If those hypothetical 30,000 in Milwaukee would go to watch the Milwaukee Wave instead of becoming cash cows for Bayern and the DFB, this would do far more good for soccer as a whole. In the US as well as in Germany.

[Emperor_Norton]

I have a suggestion: we could make sth. like a 7-Nation-Cup. Let`s simply abolish the Ligapokal (noone takes it serious anyways) and make such a pre-seaon tournament in Northern America. We shouldn`t play an exclusive tournament to show off German teams. Let`s take 16 teams (the three best MLS teams, the best USL team, two Canadian teams, two Mexian teams - and from Europe three Bundesliga teams, one Austrian, two Polish and two Czech sites - we can argue about how the number from each country will be made up). They qualify due to their preseason results. Teams like Bayern or Galaxy don`t qualify after a poor season. Not the players should be the attraction of the tournament, but the tournament itself.

Let`s play them in an annual ko-competition. In the first round American teams will have to play European competition. So there is the maximum amount of 4 matches for each team.

Let`s distibute money in a fair way. Let`s say every team gets 500,000 euros for each game it plays, plus a further 1,000,000 for each victory. No team get`s extra money - you get the same amount whether you are Bayern, Rapid Vienna or DC United. The only amount to increase your income is by winning games.


That could be very interesting. And the teams will run for that money.

It should be able to get that money out of TV deals. By inclusion of American Non-MLS teams and teams from Europe who usually don`t do oversea games, the tournament could become spicy (Sparta Prague, Salzburg, Legia Warschau, Wisla Krakow and so on).

Unlike the English prosposal, such a tournament would actually help local teams in Northern America. And it would also help European teams to gain popularity in the North American market.

A Win-Win situation and I am about to get a patent for that idea :rolleyes:.

[nekkibasara]

Because subsistence agriculture and famine or the monopolization of political power in the hands of a tiny minority where so awesome?

Owned. :cool:

Although you could say that the monopolization of power still exists even in so called "representative democracies."

Ok, so it might be financially beneficial to the clubs. That's not exactly something I care about too much, I fear. I wish the rest of the world would put more effort into their own leagues instead of helping to ******** up things over here. If those hypothetical 30,000 in Milwaukee would go to watch the Milwaukee Wave instead of becoming cash cows for Bayern and the DFB, this would do far more good for soccer as a whole. In the US as well as in Germany.

This comment is spot on. The true reasoning behind the EPL push to play matches overseas was to make more money. It has nothing to do with promoting/popularizing the sport in other contries.

[Scholl7]

I would LOVE to see any Bundesliga team/s play in the Midwest, just to see some of these guys in person and to commisserate with other fans. And I understand that occasionally beer is served at these events.

But I agree with Nekkibasara and The Friendly Ghost that although there is a venue that could contain a Bundesliga/DFB Pokal event in Milwaukee (the clear choice is Miller Park, which is also about 1000 yards from my apartment!), I don't think the event would draw the requisite attendance due to a likely lack of local interest; there are more Man Utd, Arsenal and even Tottenham fans locally than there are combined Bundesliga fans, despite Milwaukee's German heritage. Not that some of these people wouldn't come out to a match, many probably would, but I think they'd get a much better draw in Chicago.

A game at Soldier Field in Chicago, or maybe Toyota Park (home of Chicago Fire, 20K capacity) would draw more casual fans and make it worth the B-liga's effort. I know a couple guys that drove down to see FC Bayern play Man Utd (I think?) during the CL tour of the USA a few years back, and they said it was great, despite not all the big names making the trip.

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Owned. :cool:

Although you could say that the monopolization of power still exists even in so called "representative democracies."



Owned?? why?

weapons that are able to wipe off every human from the surface of this planet are a long term product of industrialisation. Is it save to say world peace could not be achieved without ind. and the technological evolution that came with it? I think not.
But please let's not discuss this. Alex started with his dumb remark.

back on topic:

Nobody really cares about the Ligapokal in Germany. How could we expect others to care? It would be worth a try if a UEFA Cup spot would be granted for the winner. But without that this idea has failure written all over it.

[Emperor_Norton]

Nobody really cares about the Ligapokal in Germany. How could we expect others to care? It would be worth a try if a UEFA Cup spot would be granted for the winner. But without that this idea has failure written all over it.

I said it was a good idea to abolish the Ligapokal - completely. Instead we could play another tournament - a completely different type of tournament as I have explained in my last post. And I think that it could work.

[Alex_K]

Owned. :cool:

Although you could say that the monopolization of power still exists even in so called "representative democracies."


I, being my usualy left wing self :D, certainly agree that things aren't exactly perfect - compared to what we had before it's not that bad, though ;). Of course things also got worse through industrialization at first - but considering that modern social policies were a direct reaction to this we still profit from this.

[Dead Fingers]

I know a couple guys that drove down to see FC Bayern play Man Utd (I think?) during the CL tour of the USA a few years back, and they said it was great, despite not all the big names making the trip.


I was there and that game was absolutely horrible. Two teams just kicking the ball around (0-0 scoreline and it wasn't until everybody started booing, did they decide right then and there to have a shoot out). Ticket prices were absurd.

And this gets to the heart of the matter. The games were billed as something they were not. Half the players they were promoting the game with didn't even play. The funny thing is that I don't blame the teams or the coaches, as they have other things on their minds. But false advertising is an understatement for what happened in Chicago.



Please continue. :D

[Emperor_Norton]

I would like to throw in some general thoughts about the marketing strategy of the EPl behind their expansion plans. I am well aware that the EPL is the richest league on the planet - all in all. But their business plan is far from being perfect. In fact as far as the selling of broadcasting rights are concerned they are always praised for the excellent contracts they make, but I see things slightly differently. In fact I don`t see any sophisticated business plan or strategy behind it.

The way the EPL sells its exclusive broadcasting rights is simple: whoever pays the most gets them. Normally these rights go to pay-TV channels who try to cash in on their audience. And I suspect the profits those channels make with the EPl are very low if not-existing. Furthermore, this proceedure limits the reach of the EPL. Only 200,000 Chinese are able to watch EPL (the BBC even reports 20,000), whereas the Bundesliga, League 1, Serie A are still on free terrestrial TV in China (those who watch the EPL on the internet cannot be detected, but their number should be much lower than the estimates released by the EPL). The match between Arsenal and Manchester City was estimated to have 1 billion viewers by the EPL (in fact it only had 8 millions).

Why am I writing this? Because I think the Bundesliga would be much better off to sell broadcasting rights cheap for the contractor who has the widest reach of viewers. And concentrate on selling merchandise and getting more money from sponsorship deals instead of revenues from broadcasting rights.
The Bundesliga has - despite limited viewers in other countries - higher revenue from merchandising and sponsorship than the EPL. We should therefor not try to copy the EPL-modell and focus on merchandising and sponsorship deals.