CM's

[FCmagic01]

No matter what formation we run in the next world cup a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3. We are going to need 2 strong CM's.
In my eyes we have four options at the spot which gives us 6 combos there.
Bradley, Edu, Clark, and Feilhaber--they are all very similar and it all depends on from if you ask me. Szetela could also come out of the dark.

Bradley has the potential to jump ahead of all of them come 2010 and cement himself as a starter as he is in Europe and playing tremendously.

I still think Feilhaber is a great compliment to him and they should start together come 2010.

What are your thoughts??

[Maximum Optimal]

I would add Donovan to the mix of players who should be looked at in central mid.

The Mexico game did illustrate something important. Chemistry and complementarity could well be the key principles that drive who end up starting in this role. I don't rule out Clark and Bradley, but at some point they would have to demonstrate a better ability to work together.

Without getting into names, my preference would be for one player who mainly does the dirty work on defense and keeps things simple on offense, and one player who is more creative, a better passer, but at the same time plays fairly deep and contributes some on defense. The ideal I have in mind would be a Gattuso-Pirlo style partnership.

[Aaryque]

I would add Donovan to the mix of players who should be looked at in central mid.

The Mexico game did illustrate something important. Chemistry and complementarity could well be the key principles that drive who end up starting in this role. I don't rule out Clark and Bradley, but at some point they would have to demonstrate a better ability to work together.

Without getting into names, my preference would be for one player who mainly does the dirty work on defense and keeps things simple on offense, and one player who is more creative, a better passer, but at the same time plays fairly deep and contributes some on defense. The ideal I have in mind would be a Gattuso-Pirlo style partnership.

Totally agree. I'll get into names.

So, depth chart at each:
Dirty-worker (for lack of a better name that won't send the thread off track):

Bradley
Clark
Edu
Beckerman?
Spector?
Szetela?


(I'm sure Mastro should be in there somewhere but I'm in denial.)

Creative:

Feilhaber
Donovan
Dempsey
Bradley
Kljestan
Edu

I must be forgetting people but it's a start.

PS. I didn't slot Adu in because I don't think you would ever want him playing even as much defense as that. If he were to play CM I think you would have to make it a true CAM rather than the deeper-lying creator we're talking about.

[Dr.Phil]

After the Mexico game I still think Benny and Bradley will be the best pairing

[Haddamlion]

I think that for closing down space and denying passing lanes, as well as distributing into the attacking third, Bradley will be essential.
Feilhaber is very creative/impressive when hes on his game, but without numerous minutes in fast-paced games ,with a club team, Benny might lack the focus and timing to be a safe choice in the center.
Edu has good passing ability and I like his effort on defense. He's got alot of potential as a rookie, and I think hes going to shut down a lot of offense in the MLS. Definetely one to keep an eye on.
I apologize to Ricardo Clark fans, but I don't see him as a good option at CM. He needs to work on his passing so their easier to receive. He also needs to learn better defensive positioning, and to deny open space.
I cant wait for Danny Szetela to start getting called up. From what I saw in the U-20s he is hungry, and effective, on defense and his passing is excellent. Has anyone seen him play at the senior level?

[Elninho]

Chemistry is more important than individual players here. Having re-watched the Mexico game, I've noticed that, from an Opta stats point of view, both Bradley and Clark had "good" games. Each, individually, was effective at breaking up plays, holding the ball in traffic, and distributing. And yet, as a pair, they were terrible. I'm guessing they were both supposed to pick their spots to go forward, to attack the ball, to hang back... and far too often the two did exactly the same thing at the same time, which meant we looked like we were a man short in central midfield.

[OWN(yewu)ED]

the important thing here ive been trying to pound home is, and i hope bob bradley is learning too, is putting on the best TEAM available. We're not in qualifying yet so we have had the luxury of experimenting. We're loaded at the central midfield position, we're trying to find the best combo. It is appearing more and more apparent that empty bucket isnt working.

Like it or not, we are going to have to design our central midfield around Bradley and X. X being one of Clark, Feilhaber, Edu, Donovan, Dempsey, Adu, Klejstan, Szetela, et al.

Bradley-Clark: It was well intentioned, i think all of us prior to the event in mexico wanted to see it. No harm in trying it. It just didnt work, Bradley and Clark are too much the same player and we payed for it. That is not our best combination.

Bradley-Edu: We got to see that against Switzerland and South Africa. Again Edu is a good midfielder, he's very aggressive in the midfield and did well in frustrating a talented Switzerland squad. but again, we had trouble going forward. We saw the trouble with the cohesion in the second half of South Africa too, it wasnt a catastrophe but it wasnt pretty. Adu and Altidore i dont think touched the ball.

To me, Clark and Edu are alternates to Bradley and shouldnt be paired with him, we need someone more offensive minded

Bradley-Feilhaber: For my money this has been and still is the best combination that we have. Feilhaber is a completely different kind of midfielder from the two aforementioned. Ever since Ecuador you could tell it was going to work. The Gold Cup, we saw it work. Bigsoccer bloodsuckers just jumped on him after signing with derby, not getting playing time, and not showing well at RIGHT midfielder. Feilhaber is the direct example that just because your not getting PT at your club doesnt mean your a good player. Feilhaber brought instant composure to the midfield once he came in, and i think made one bonehead pass the entire game, other than that, he looked good. This is the best pairing we have right now and should be the pairing in the middle going into WC qualifying.

Bradley-donovan: THIS one is interesting to me. It seems Donovan-Dempsey have been the interchangable right mid-withdrawn forward pair, but what if Holden or Rogers emerge as legit options out right? I still think donovnas ideal position is withdrawn forward IF he has a forward like Altidore to work off of. Donovan could work really really well here, but i think we are losing a little offensive kick if we dont play him up top.

Bradley-Adu: looking at sheer upside this is the future. Two polar opposite players. By 2010 this could be it. Adu despite has size has impecable skills on the ball. He was growing into the senior team shoes and right at the end of the mexico match you could see his confidence go up. He's going to get his chances and im just as excited as the next person.


So in conclusion, right now i think Bradley-Feilhaber is the best option right now, Bradley-Adu will probably be it by 2010.

[Marko72]

Benny-Bradley I think were clearly the future partnering you'd want to go with until Benny got stuck in a club situation that just isn't working out for him and got rusty. After the Mexico game, however, it looks like that might STILL be the best pairing.

Bradley has good instincts, passes well when the pressure's off, fights well for the ball, gets forward well and has a good shot. Benny's well-positioned and, despite some poor ball brain-farts can spring an attack from traffic with a well placed-and-weighted ball more so than I can remember any current or recent US player. He lends a certain fluidity to our possession that our team has lacked without him. Whether we're better off with another dawg to avoid getting burned or not is debatable, despite all the "empty bucket" cries. If we want (need) better quality possession and more attacking flow, there's little question that he improves our team in that regard vis-a-vis Bradley, Edu, and Clark.

Benny's better suited to the deep-lying creative role than either Donovan or Dempsey are. And I really do not want to take either one further away from the attack, as I believe that, youth aside, it will be those guys plus possibly Beasley will be carrying this team as far as they can go in South Africa.

[Adam Zebrowski]

agree bradley with feilhaber gives usa the defensive with holding bite i'd prefer...

the other 2 mids are atatcking mids, pick out of beasley, convey, adu, dempsey, donovan for those 2...

as to edu, szetela and clark, tactical needs could make them needed, and i think that flexability is the roster is a good think to have.

[Marko72]

So in conclusion, right now i think Bradley-Feilhaber is the best option right now, Bradley-Adu will probably be it by 2010.

But that means a pure diamond, which is a significant switch, with significant changes to the wingers' roles. I'm not nixing it, I'm saying that has MUCH to bear out, even assuming that both players (particularly Adu) develop as such.

Personally, Adu's a big enigma to me, but I honestly don't see him as or becoming any sort of CM at all. True #10 CAM, or withdrawn forward, or pinched-in playmaking winger (the same role that I see Donovan, and to a lesser extent Dempsey excelling at).


An aside: I think we'll be seeing more of the Benny-Bradley combo in the upcoming European friendlies. They'll be facing a level of competition above that which they'll mostly face in CONCACAF. I probably won't be decided in my own mind whether Feilhaber's flow is preferable to Clark-and-Edu's ballwinning and workrate against top competition in time for the WC until we get a little taste at the Confed Cup in 2009. I do feel, however, that in general terms, an in-from Feilhaber in the middle is an improvement to our squad, at least in terms of our ability to generate attacking options from the middle of pitch.

[Revolt]

I prefer Donovan at withdrawn forward. AM will continue to be a problem until MLS can start really developing US players at this position.

[FCmagic01]

What about....
---------Altidore---------
Beasley-Donovan-Dempsey
-------Edu-Bradley--------

[Marko72]

What about....
---------Altidore---------
Beasley-Donovan-Dempsey
-------Edu-Bradley--------

Wouldn't be the first time I've agreed with the notion of a 4231, though I'd juggle the exact line-up you've got... and I'd still wonder if Feilhaber weren't necessary in some games. Caveat: Altidore isn't ready to handle lone striker duties. Until such time, we're definitely a 442 team.

[Maximum Optimal]

What about....
---------Altidore---------
Beasley-Donovan-Dempsey
-------Edu-Bradley--------

We played the Edu-Bradley combo against Switzerland and South Africa. Although winning those two games on the road is nothing to sneeze at, I think we had little or no offensive rhythm in those games. Standard empty bucket stuff, which to me means little or no creativity and flow from the middle.

[Aaryque]

Altidore isn't ready to handle lone striker duties. Until such time, we're definitely a 442 team.

As long as the '3' in the 4231 are pushing forward quickly and aggressively he could handle it. Problems arise when they aren't pushing forward and the man up top becomes isolated like McBride was in 2006. In that case any striker would have trouble being effective.

[Marko72]

As long as the '3' in the 4231 are pushing forward quickly and aggressively he could handle it. Problems arise when they aren't pushing forward and the man up top becomes isolated like McBride was in 2006. In that case any striker would have trouble being effective.

True. Remember how far back Donovan was tracking against Mexico in the 2nd half? (Then again, Drew Moor was his fullback.) But the better teams in our WC group will likely do that to us.

I'm not speculating whether or not he'll be ready for a lone striker role in 2010. That book is very definitely unwritten. But he's not now, and until such time as he is, 4231 is unfortunately a pretty doomed exercise. Unfortunate, because I think it fits so much of our personnel (most especially our Donovan/Dempsey/Adu or Beasley combo, which along with our goalkeeping is our best shot at a winner), and I'd really like to see us implement it.

[olephill2]

I think a 4-2-3-1 will get the maximum amount of talented players on the field for us come 2010, and I think it will give us our best chance for success, provided that the 3 attacking midfielders truly play in an advanced position and support the lone striker. In the 2006 World Cup, France essentially played a 4-2-3-1 with the following structure & personnel, to great success:

----------Henry---------- <-- Striker
Malouda---Zidane---Ribery <-- Attacking Midfielders
-----Vieira---Makelele----- <-- Defensive Midfielders

The formation was successful not just because of the individual talent/brilliance of the players, but also because the wingers (Malouda & Ribery) remained in advanced positions as much as possible and essentially made it like a 4-2-4 in the attack, with Zidane pulling the strings in the attacking third. While we can't duplicate France's talent in terms of personnel, we have the players to duplicate this style, as such:

----------------------Altidore----------------------
Beasley-----------Dempsey/Adu-------------Donovan
------------Bradley-----------Edu/Clark-------------

While this formation may look even more defensive than the 4-4-2 empty bucket, it's not if your 3 attacking midfielders commit to the attack and stay in advanced positions on the field. That's the key to making this a potent attacking formation.



Bradley-Adu: looking at sheer upside this is the future. Two polar opposite players. By 2010 this could be it. Adu despite has size has impecable skills on the ball. He was growing into the senior team shoes and right at the end of the mexico match you could see his confidence go up. He's going to get his chances and im just as excited as the next person.


So in conclusion, right now i think Bradley-Feilhaber is the best option right now, Bradley-Adu will probably be it by 2010.
I think you might be right, but I also know that Martin Fischer pretty cogently made the case that a 4-4-2 (diamond midfield) is rarely used to success at the highest levels, such as in a World Cup. Most teams at the 2006 WC who played with a true #10-style attacking midfielder had two deep lying or defensive mids behind him (EX: France had Vieira & Makelele behind Zidane). So, while your central midfield alignment might get the most talent on the field, do we really trust playing with only 1 true central midfielder at the highest level of the game (World Cup)? What do you guys think?

[PVancouver]

Most teams at the 2006 WC who played with a true #10-style attacking midfielder had two deep lying or defensive mids behind him (EX: France had Vieira & Makelele behind Zidane). So, while your central midfield alignment might get the most talent on the field, do we really trust playing with only 1 true central midfielder at the highest level of the game (World Cup)? What do you guys think?

So all of these teams played with only one forward? What attributes should such a forward have?

By "true central midfielder", apparently you mean "defensive midfielder". Did any of these defensive midfielders engage in attack?

[Martin Fischer]

So all of these teams played with only one forward? What attributes should such a forward have?

By "true central midfielder", apparently you mean "defensive midfielder". Did any of these defensive midfielders engage in attack?

Yes, most did in a meaningful way. But both also played a lot of defense, something that Adu doesn't, and shouldn't be asked to do. Meaning unless the US is the exception that can get away with one two-way central midfielder instead of two, and this is possible, Adu/Bradley is not going to cut it. So, in summary, you could be right, but you would be going against the general conventional wisdom on this point.

[Untroubled by Reason]

----------------------Altidore----------------------
Beasley-----------Dempsey/Adu-------------Donovan
------------Bradley-----------Edu/Clark-------------

While this formation may look even more defensive than the 4-4-2 empty bucket, it's not if your 3 attacking midfielders commit to the attack and stay in advanced positions on the field. That's the key to making this a potent attacking formation.This isn't bad, although I'd prefer Dempsey and Donovan switched. Someone else mentioned, "What if Altidore isn't ready to be a sole forward in WC 2010?" In this case, when the team attacks, it's really three forwards w/ Donovan or Adu in the hole behind them. Plus, there's always Ching, who combines very well with Donovan, assuming he's successfully recovered from his pre-MLS Cup injury.

Of course, somebody will point out, "Ach! The dreaded 4-5-1!! Get thee behind me, Satan!!!" You can't please everyone.