So we have a problem with Defenders...

[oscar_in_fw]

How do we solve it (near-term and long-term) ?

We had problems in the back against Mexico which some have suggested was playing defenders who were not good enough to deal with Mexico's attackers. Aside from the relative ease of Mexico's goals on set pieces, I was frustrated by the continuing habit of our DBs simply clearing the ball away rather than trying to pass the ball intelligently to an "open" (?) upfield player. Was it because our defenders don't have the skill to consistently work the ball upfield competently/safely and/or our organization/field positioning just isn't very sound ?

Assuming the former, what can you do "create" World class defenders with good ball dribbling/passing skills ?

We seem to have an abundance of offensive-minded and skilled midfielders (e.g. Donovan, Dempsey, Adu); how practical might it be to convert one of these to play a defensive role ? Or is it a role requiring years of play to get proficient at it (e.g. nuances of man-marking, one on one defending, avoiding fouls in the box etc...)

And a side topic; I wonder if Bradley might be better off playing the striker/forward role given his goal-scoring success at Harenveen ? We seem to have a couple of other players (e.g. Clark, Edu) who could fill in at defensive mid.

[dsnipes1]

i'm going to guess that you didn't really play soccer before and that you're a relatively new fan to the game . . . so i'm not going to ridicule your post as i think some others might (you might want to be careful when starting new threads in the future though).

i am going to respond to the general topic of your thread, the fact that you think we have a problem with defenders. i disagree. i think that one thing we learned is that the bocanegra and onyewu pairing isn't as hopeless as others have suggested. further, while not being incredibly deep at fullback, we do have cherundolo, bornstein, spector, pearce, and simek (when healthy). we also have some young prospects coming up like subotic, ianni, and sturgis; plus there's always demerit and conrad.

so while we don't have any world class defenders (but we don't have world class players at ANY position), we're not in dire straights defensively.

[DaPrince84]

the Boca/Gooch pairing will not work against quick forwards... we were lucky Castillo wasnt playing

[KCDEFENDER]

i'm going to guess that you didn't really play soccer before and that you're a relatively new fan to the game . . . so i'm not going to ridicule your post as i think some others might (you might want to be careful when starting new threads in the future though).

i am going to respond to the general topic of your thread, the fact that you think we have a problem with defenders. i disagree. i think that one thing we learned is that the bocanegra and onyewu pairing isn't as hopeless as others have suggested. further, while not being incredibly deep at fullback, we do have cherundolo, bornstein, spector, pearce, and simek (when healthy). we also have some young prospects coming up like subotic, ianni, and sturgis; plus there's always demerit and conrad.

so while we don't have any world class defenders (but we don't have world class players at ANY position), we're not in dire straights defensively.
i will have a agree with you. we needed someone back there tho to bring them together such as conrad but i think on this game there was alot of jet lag and guys who hadnt played together bujust for a few hours ahead of the game. The Mexicans were a seasoned team and had some home work for this game. Not that we didnt but we hadnt been together as "team" as they had. All in all we did ok but our defense is there just as strongor working properly as usual.

[dsnipes1]

the Boca/Gooch pairing will not work against quick forwards... we were lucky Castillo wasnt playing

i agree, and hopefully bradley realizes that and isn't locked into a onyewu and bocanegra partnership. however, it has been suggested for a while now that playing boca and gooch together is doomed to fail and that its a horrible idea. i don't think that is the case at all.

as far as being lucky that castillo wasn't playing . . . mexico was lucky that cherundolo and bornstein weren't playing, then it would've finished 2-0 like it should have . . .

(i forgot parkhurst in my previous post, and i'm sure that i forgot others as well)

[Clint Eastwood]

Well, we kindof have a problem with our defenders and that's a serious lack of depth. Our depth at the left fullback position of international caliber players is only a couple deep. Bornstein and Pearce are our top left backs at that level. We've got some centerbacks who can play there (Bocanegra, Spector, Gibbs :), and others). For the last 20 years that's been our weak spot and yet we still haven't developed depth there. Bruce even tried Eddie Lewis and Bobby Convey at that position.

Right back I'm a little more satisfied with. Cherundolo, Spector, Simek, Wynne, Moor, Freeman are all fine. Moor didn't do well against Mexico, but he actually performed quite well in the Copa America. He's young and I'm not willing to write him off yet. Of course, I'm more forgiving than others.

Saying all that, we can qualify for the world cup with any of those players listed above. That shouldn't even be our goal anymore. How do we develop the talent pool to the point where we are consistently challenging the top 20 teams in the world. And we have a way to go to get there.

[STLCover2]

i'm going to guess that you didn't really play soccer before and that you're a relatively new fan to the game . . . so i'm not going to ridicule your post as i think some others might (you might want to be careful when starting new threads in the future though).


If there has ever been a more pretentious and condescending response to a post on a message board, I have not seen it. Wow.

[FC Tallavana]

The problem we have is not so much that our best central defenders can't work the ball out of the back, it's that the formation employed by Bob requires them to work it out of the back.

It's not like this is a new problem for us. Arena did a good job of masking the problem by making sure that we attacked down the flanks rather than through the middle.

The formation Bob has installed requires too much of the build-up to go through the middle. The means we have to have defenders capable of linking up with the central mids and central mids capable of holding onto possession long enough to link of with the wide mids and/or the forward(s). Folks, we simply don't have those types of players. Not enough of them to make the formation work anyway.

What we should do to cover up our weakness and play up our relative strength is...

--------------------Howard
---Dolo-------Gooch-------Boca-------Spector
--------------------Bradley
--------Donovan--------------Beasley
---------------------Adu
------------Dempsey-----Altidore

[IndividualEleven]

How do we solve it (near-term and long-term) ?

We had problems in the back against Mexico which some have suggested was playing defenders who were not good enough to deal with Mexico's attackers. Aside from the relative ease of Mexico's goals on set pieces, I was frustrated by the continuing habit of our DBs simply clearing the ball away rather than trying to pass the ball intelligently to an "open" (?) upfield player. Was it because our defenders don't have the skill to consistently work the ball upfield competently/safely and/or our organization/field positioning just isn't very sound ?

Assuming the former, what can you do "create" World class defenders with good ball dribbling/passing skills ?

We seem to have an abundance of offensive-minded and skilled midfielders (e.g. Donovan, Dempsey, Adu); how practical might it be to convert one of these to play a defensive role ? Or is it a role requiring years of play to get proficient at it (e.g. nuances of man-marking, one on one defending, avoiding fouls in the box etc...)

And a side topic; I wonder if Bradley might be better off playing the striker/forward role given his goal-scoring success at Harenveen ? We seem to have a couple of other players (e.g. Clark, Edu) who could fill in at defensive mid.

It's not practical to convert guys like that at the international level in a general sense. A baller like Bobby Convey for instance might play an attacking left back in a game against a weak team in Concacaf qualifier as happened last cycle, but not in a match against serious competition. Those conversions take place at club level where time and practice games are in greater supply.

Imo the defenders generally don't attempt to work the ball up the field as a matter of team tactics rather than skill limitations. At the U-20 WC the players regularly dribbled the ball out of the back and looked to make the short combination passes.

Bob Bradley is coaching scared imo.

[NYC ugly]

i'm going to guess that you didn't really play soccer before and that you're a relatively new fan to the game . . . so i'm not going to ridicule your post as i think some others might (you might want to be careful when starting new threads in the future though).

i am going to respond to the general topic of your thread, the fact that you think we have a problem with defenders. i disagree. i think that one thing we learned is that the bocanegra and onyewu pairing isn't as hopeless as others have suggested. further, while not being incredibly deep at fullback, we do have cherundolo, bornstein, spector, pearce, and simek (when healthy). we also have some young prospects coming up like subotic, ianni, and sturgis; plus there's always demerit and conrad.

so while we don't have any world class defenders (but we don't have world class players at ANY position), we're not in dire straights defensively.

The US has a big problem with it's lacking quality defenders. You cannot play 5 in the back against quality teams every time like the Arena days and expect to improve. US defenders are SSSSLLLLOOOOWWWWWW! After Cherundolo and Bornstein, the US just have warm bodies. You have to be blind not to see that.

[Baysider]

We seem to have an abundance of offensive-minded and skilled midfielders (e.g. Donovan, Dempsey, Adu); how practical might it be to convert one of these to play a defensive role ? Or is it a role requiring years of play to get proficient at it (e.g. nuances of man-marking, one on one defending, avoiding fouls in the box etc...)



Actually, we don't have an abudance of anything (except goalkeepers). The three you mentioned (plus Beasley) are it for skilled offensive-minded midfielders. And one of them will have to play forward because we don't have two good starting fowards.

Also, those three guys are bad at defense.

If we're converting players to defense it will be athletic, moderately skilled attacking players who have no chance as an attacking player at the international level but might give us minutes on defense (Chris Albright). But it's hard to convert players if the clubs don't want to go along with it.

[USA2010?]

If Dolo, Bornstein, Simek, Pearce, AND Spector are injured, then yes, we do have a problem in the back. Would I like to see more speed in the back middle? Sure. However, the better our wings play the easier it is for Gooch and Bocanegra. I'd like to see how Sturgis develops. He really impressed me in the U20 WC. In fact, there were a few guys on that back line that looked like they had some real potential.

I don't think there are too many countries that are not paranoid about their defense. However, I'm more concerned about our ability to control the middle and send the other team chasing. I'd like to see more one-touch passing skill, a la Argentina. I know, we are not Argentina, but that does not mean I can't dream a little.

It really looks like Jozy is the real deal, but if he gets hurt, then....?

If Freddy can develop just a little over the next 12 months, I don't think many of us will recognize our offense. Freddy has excellent vision and you can make an argument that he is the best passer on the USMNT. Now, if we can just get Benny minutes on a club team....

[dsnipes1]

If there has ever been a more pretentious and condescending response to a post on a message board, I have not seen it. Wow.

while i see how my post came across as condescending, i could have honestly been much harsher, and am a bit surprised that no one else has been with the thread starter.

seriously, he asked a string of ridiculous questions. "how practical might it be to convert one of these (donovan, dempsey, or adu) to play a defensive role ?" yeah, adu would make a great left back wouldn't he?

"is it a role requiring years of play to get proficient at it (e.g. nuances of man-marking, one on one defending, avoiding fouls in the box etc...)?" ummmm . . . yes.

"And a side topic; I wonder if Bradley might be better off playing the striker/forward role given his goal-scoring success at Harenveen ?" apparently he hasn't seen any of the goals that bradley has scored . . . nor does he know how to spell bradley's club's name.

so was i condescending? yes. have similarly naive thread starters been ridiculed by others on bigsoccer? yes. i honestly meant my advice on being careful in starting new threads to be practical advice. sorry.

[dsnipes1]

The US has a big problem with it's lacking quality defenders. You cannot play 5 in the back against quality teams every time like the Arena days and expect to improve. US defenders are SSSSLLLLOOOOWWWWWW! After Cherundolo and Bornstein, the US just have warm bodies. You have to be blind not to see that.

the u.s. has a big problem with its lacking quality at every field position. u.s. defenders are not slow; pearce and wynne are reputed to have world class speed, and i've seen spector win a foot race against cisse while shutting him down for an entire match . . .

the thing is, defending is not just about speed, and while we don't have any world class defenders, i'm content with the group we have (bornstein, pearce, spector, cherundolo, simek, bocanegra, onyewu, parkhurst, conrad, demerit, younger guys like subotic, ianni, sturgis, wynne, etc). it could be a lot worse.

[NYC ugly]

the u.s. has a big problem with its lacking quality at every field position. u.s. defenders are not slow; pearce and wynne are reputed to have world class speed, and i've seen spector win a foot race against cisse while shutting him down for an entire match . . .

the thing is, defending is not just about speed, and while we don't have any world class defenders, i'm content with the group we have (bornstein, pearce, spector, cherundolo, simek, bocanegra, onyewu, parkhurst, conrad, demerit, younger guys like subotic, ianni, sturgis, wynne, etc). it could be a lot worse.

The US is more than okay for CONCACAF but I think US soccer is beyond that now. At least I think so. You need speed in international games because it's a sure thing you're going to be beaten by good attackers. Quickness is very important to cover for each other. I don't count Wynne as a current or future US defender, his soccer skills are so inferior. I had very high hopes for him and Onyewu, but the guy is a TFC caliber defender nothing more. I like Ianni's game with the U-20s games I've seen but he is still not tested against the big boys. Sturgis and Subotic I haven't watched play against professionals. I haven't seen Spector play one good game for the US yet. I've only seen him play 1 game where he is neither embarassingly bad or just completely lost, but not good either. He's the king of sliding tackles from behind. Parkhurst I'd like to see tested for 90 min. if he's a bit better than Onyewoe. 2 years before 2010 WC, I was hoping the US to be in a lot better shape defensively.

[Wasted]

while i see how my post came across as condescending, i could have honestly been much harsher, and am a bit surprised that no one else has been with the thread starter.

seriously, he asked a string of ridiculous questions. "how practical might it be to convert one of these (donovan, dempsey, or adu) to play a defensive role ?" yeah, adu would make a great left back wouldn't he?

"is it a role requiring years of play to get proficient at it (e.g. nuances of man-marking, one on one defending, avoiding fouls in the box etc...)?" ummmm . . . yes.

"And a side topic; I wonder if Bradley might be better off playing the striker/forward role given his goal-scoring success at Harenveen ?" apparently he hasn't seen any of the goals that bradley has scored . . . nor does he know how to spell bradley's club's name.

so was i condescending? yes. have similarly naive thread starters been ridiculed by others on bigsoccer? yes. i honestly meant my advice on being careful in starting new threads to be practical advice. sorry.

Well it was a little harsh, but the guy wasn't entirely wrong. Making midfielders into defenders and the reverse happens all of the time. Look at how Essien fills in as a defender at times for Chelsea or how Riise for Liverpool does both left wing and left back. Problem is that it takes a very rounded player to be able to do that and we don't have too many of those (and if we did they'd be playing in the center no doubt). It could work, but it's just not feasible for national sides where play is so limited. If for some crazy reason Landy, Demps, or Adu starts getting defensive minutes on their club teams than it might be different.

The real question is why he chose those three players who happen lean heavily towards the offensive end. If anyone was going to shift back into a more defensive role it would be the likes of Clark, Edu, or even Bradley if need be. I for one think that Clark could make for a pretty serviceable right back if we were desperate. Seeing as I doubt we'll ever be like that, the answer is as you put it, not gonna happen.