Are We a Giant...Part Deux

[sdotsom]

Please continue the actual discussion here. If you cut through the chaff of the last thread, I do think this has been one of the more interesting and insightful discussions I've ever seen on this board. If you have issues with a particular club and their ranking, please keep it civil and give actual reasons for your opinions, rather than saying "Stupid Real Madrid" and leaving it at that.

[Twix]

Liverpool are not a bigger giant than United.

Discuss.

[SirManchester]

I said Bayern to some extent. They are a powerhouse historically but still not as big in the current era as they were once. Bayern/CHelsea/Inter still put out a strong team every year. And in any case they are in the next biggest list IMO.

I could have actually put Real/Milan/Barcelona/ManU in the same list ... coz they are the biggest names in world football today and everyone looks upto them.

and again - despite what Liverpool have done historically and may be considered a 'Giant' historically -- in todays age they are not. Madrid are a different ballgame altogether !!

But what exactly does "to some extent" mean? If we're discussing historical achievements and a consistency to remain dominant domestically and in Europe, no other teams fits the description better than Bayern. I've posted this before, and I hate to repeat myself, but appearing in the European Cup final in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's while winning in two of them and at the same time consistently beating Europe's biggest teams, and remaining strong within their own league doesn't merit them a top tier giants tag? Admittedly they are an anomaly because they don't have the pulling power as the Madrids and Barcelona but that has never phased them and that's exactly why they remain an anomaly in world football, but I don't think that takes away from what they've achieved and given those circumstances, they stand above the likes of Inter and Chelsea (who quite frankly you've ranked far too hight) And having said that you'rep utting far TOO much emphasis on the current era which is a tiny piece of history compared to the last 90+ years of European football.

[Twix]

Sirmanc, if we're talking about European clubs, don't you mean the past 60 years?

[Invincible]

I don't think there's anything else to discuss. A team that currently dominates their league but tends not to win much CL titles are not quite considered to be giants. The same goes for teams that do well in the CL but don't get a sniff at home in the league. Teams that regularly win both are giants.

Anything else is useless chatter.

[Vermont Red]

To recap:

Real Madrid are not giants because the Spanish government bailed them out.
Barcelona are not giants because they haven't won enough Champions Leagues.
Liverpool are not giants because they are no part of the Big Three in England.
Arsenal are not giants because they never won the Champions League.
Chelsea are not giants because before the Russian, they were nothing.
Bayern are not giants because they play in a crap league.
Internazionale are not giants because they never win anything.
Juventus are not giants because they are dirty, Italian cheaters.
Milan are giants because they win Champions Leagues and aren't bailed out by the Italian government.
Manchester United are giants because their fans say so.

[SirManchester]

Sirmanc, if we're talking about European clubs, don't you mean the past 60 years?

If we're talking European Cup alone sure, but the history of these "giants" go further back and I only mentioned that to reflect how little the last few years matter in a greater context.

[Twix]

Fair enough, apart from the World Cups I have no interest in the pre-war era so I tend to dismiss it.

Plus pre European Cup, how could a team be termed a 'giant'?

[SirManchester]

Fair enough, apart from the World Cups I have no interest in the pre-war era so I tend to dismiss it.

Plus pre European Cup, how could a team be termed a 'giant'?

The pre-war era is actually quite interesting (especially the German one ;) )

It was more difficult back then and England was generally regarded as the best in Europe and many looked up to their league as a leader in European football. There was less of a need to classify and categorize teams into tiers back then as well as the game was relatively young.

[Ian Daglers]

I don't think there's anything else to discuss. A team that currently dominates their league but tends not to win much CL titles are not quite considered to be giants. The same goes for teams that do well in the CL but don't get a sniff at home in the league. Teams that regularly win both are giants.

Anything else is useless chatter.

But the CL hasn't had a regular winner since the expansion to include non-champions. The only team that even regularly goes deep into it is AC Milan, and they're rubbish in Serie A lately.

So I guess there's no such thing as giants.

[Ian Daglers]

So I guess there's no such thing as giants.

Oh wait.

Yes there is :eek: (SORRY PATS!!!!) :D

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/1/7/6/176008e6adc949b482c2c0ade6b8ae48.jpg

[Harry Boulton]

Of course we're a giant club. Our ground is huge, the players and managers we've had are some of the greatest the game has seen, our history is steeped in success and our future is brighter still. What's more, financially we are in the stratoshpere in comparison to most other clubs apart from a small few who generate similar levels of preofit and turnover.

We're not the most successful club ever, but never pretend to be either. We have won lots of awards and will no doubt continue to win trophies and silverware, which is the staple diet of any club who aspires to be a "giant" of the modern game.

[BusbyBabes]

There was less of a need to classify and categorize teams into tiers back then as well as the game was relatively young.

Perhaps the idiots of fans that wish to proclaim their team to be the best thing since sliced bread should realise that there really no need to catergorize clubs except to boost egos.

[zippy85]

Please continue the actual discussion here. If you cut through the chaff of the last thread, I do think this has been one of the more interesting and insightful discussions I've ever seen on this board. If you have issues with a particular club and their ranking, please keep it civil and give actual reasons for your opinions, rather than saying "Stupid Real Madrid" and leaving it at that.
O.K.I'll word it differently, i will enjoy it when Madrid lose, don't have to give a reason, i'm also going to add Barcelona to my list of teams now, makes it more interesting.

[Father Ted]

TBH I really don't care what fans of other teams think of us or if some of our fans have an inferiority complex.

[YOUNGSTARS87]

i'm also going to add Barcelona to my list of teams now, makes it more interesting.

So that brings to list to 59 or is it 60 clubs? :p

[Ian Daglers]

So that brings to list to 59 or is it 60 clubs? :p

Everyone knows their motto is that they're "more than one club" or something like that, so I it must be 60.