The Official 50 Year Anniversary of the Munich Air Disaster Thread

[Stud83]

Ryan Giggs: We carry on for the Babes


We have to carry on the legacy. If you are representing Manchester United, you have to play in the right manner, excite supporters and wherever you go, get people off their seats. That has got to go on because that is one of the things that sets this club apart. You never stand still. It always goes forward. There's Juventus and Barcelona but Manchester United always seemed to have that much more support and seem that much more special. Of course, that is down to history and what Sir Matt did."

Sir Bobby saw me at The Cliff (United's old training ground) when I was 14. He also watched David Beckham and Paul Scholes. When I played in a tournament in Switzerland, Sir Matt travelled out to watch it. You could see the love and affection for him. That has an effect on you because these are great people. They are legends who don't have to do that sort of thing but they enjoy it. They want to do it and that's been ingrained in them from a young age, probably since Sir Bobby was 14. Fans also want to see young players coming through and do well which we do on a regular basis at this club."

"Sir Bobby talks a lot about Edwards. He played with Denis Law and George Best but he still ranks Duncan Edwards as the greatest player he ever played with. He must have been some player."

"There's a link (with the class of '92) because a group of players came through at the same time and all got into the first team at such a young age. The Busby Babes won the FA Youth Cup five times on the trot which in this day and age is unbelievable. But there are so many things that are relevant to us today. While our generation won it just once a number of players went on to play not only for United but for our countries as well


http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premiership/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/08/02/03/SOCCER_Munich_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=premiership

[Harry Boulton]

Saw that Giggs interview earlier. The legacy of that side has never died. To play ther game the right way.

The papers here have been full of articles regardnig this for the last week. Even though I'm 24 and far too young to have been there, it still brings a lump to my throat to read about it, especially the personal accounts of it from the likes of Harry Gregg, Bill Foulkes and Bobby Charlton. All depply saddening accounts of a trajedy that ruined the world of football.

My deepest sympathies and respects go out to those who died and the families and friends they left behind.

[israbeckham]

I dont know about you guys, but every time I read something about how they Babes died or even think about it, I get shivers.

[Achtung]

These players live a life a world away from the likes of Albert and the rest of the Busby Babes. At the height of his stardom, Albert earned £12 a week. After he finished his career, he went labouring on the docks, ending his working life as a factory nightwatchman.

Amazing how the guys on the team were essentially no different in terms of pay from the folks working in town. I'm sure it gave the tragedy an extra connection to the people of Manchester.

Really looking forward to hearing from the people who were around at the time over the next few days. Especially for those who attended the matches, it must have been on the level of losing your own friends, people you could identify with.

[sdotsom]

Captain James Thain, the pilot, tried to take off twice, but both attempts were aborted due to engine surging. When a third take off was attempted, at 3:04 pm, the plane failed to gain adequate height and crashed into the fence surrounding the airport, then into a house, which was unoccupied at the time.

Although the crash was originally blamed on pilot error, it was subsequently found to have been caused by the build-up of slush towards the ends of the runway, causing deceleration of the aircraft and preventing safe flying speed from being attained. During the take off, the aircraft had attained a speed of 117 kt (217 km/h) but on entering the slush speed dropped to 105 kt (194 km/h), too slow for flight, with not enough runway remaining to abort the take off. Aircraft with tail-wheel undercarriages had not been greatly affected by slush, due to the geometry of these undercarriages in relation to the aircraft's centre of gravity, but newer types, such as the Ambassador, with nose wheel landing-gear and the main wheels behind the centre of gravity, were found to be vulnerable. The accident resulted in the instigation of operating limits for the amount of slush build-up permitted on runways.

Despite this conclusion, the German airport authorities (who were legally responsible for the state of the airport's runways, but generally not aware of the then unknown danger of slush on runways for aircraft like the Ambassador) took legal action against Captain Thain, who had survived the crash, claiming he had taken off without deicing the wings and that responsibility for the accident was his alone, despite several witnesses stating that this was not so. The basis of the German authorities' case relied on a photograph of the aircraft (published in several newspapers) taken shortly before take off, that appeared to show snow on the upper wing surfaces. When the original negative was examined, however, no snow or ice could be seen, the 'snow' having been due to the published pictures being produced from a copy negative. The witnesses were not called to the German inquiry and proceedings against Thain dragged on until 1968, when he was finally cleared of any responsibility for the crash. As the official cause, British authorities recorded a build-up of melting snow on the runway which prevented the Elizabethan from reaching the required take-off speed. Thain, having been dismissed by BEA shortly after the accident and never reengaged, retired and returned to run his poultry farm in Berkshire. He died of a heart attack at the age of 53, in 1975.

- From Wikipedia

[sdotsom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/6/newsid_2535000/2535961.stm

The BBC's original news reports.

[sdotsom]

A photo gallery from the days before, of, and after the crash.

http://www.topfoto.co.uk/gallery/MunichAirCrash/default.html

[Father Ted]

Good interview with Harry Gregg:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/features/munichdisaster_av.html?2332805,null,209

[Achtung]

Bill Foulkes in an excerpt from his book. Definitely one of the most vivid recreations of the event I've read.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/manchester_united/article3295276.ece

This line particularly gets me:

The doctor said: “He’s a very strong boy.” She reckoned he had a 50-50 chance of survival. When I heard that, I believed firmly that Duncan would recover. After all, he had never lost a 50-50 challenge in his life.

[sdotsom]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=505119&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&cc=5901

Soccernet on personal memories of Duncan Edwards...

[Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10]

i'll offer my sincere condolences to all those who lost loved ones that fateful day.

the more i read about the Babes the more i want to know everything about them. from all i've seen and head the best way i can describe that side and its legacy is like an unfinished symphony.

thanks to all those who posted links i'll try to read them all shortly

[Numquam Moribimur]

I don’t know if this makes me a big softie or w/e but after watching Football Focus on the Munich Anniversary, I was welling up and had to hold back tears. It’s safe to say that Wednesday and Sunday will be one of the most emotional days in supporting United. :o

[Holy__Joe]

Its a very special feeling when you visit Old Trafford and see things like the Statue of Busby and The other tributes to the Era, something i'm sure every Manchester United fan can relate to when they make that required voyage.

[BusbyBabes]

I don’t know if this makes me a big softie or w/e but after watching Football Focus on the Munich Anniversary, I was welling up and had to hold back tears. It’s safe to say that Wednesday and Sunday will be one of the most emotional days in supporting United. :o

You are not a softie!:)

I agree with you! I am not the most emotive person but you do well up when listening to Gregg and the other survivors. I am feeling very melancholy at the moment but everyone is at the moment.

I listened to a radio interview with Harry Gregg yesterday in a special programme so I will put here and you can find it there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/

[MtP07]

A great article from the MEN on Jimmy Murphy -

UNITED'S rebirth after the tragedy of Munich was largely down to quiet man Jimmy Murphy.

The visionary Matt Busby spotted Murphy's talents when the Welshman was in Africa in the army during World War Two.

Busby saw Murphy geeing up a team of soldiers who were due to face professionals, including the future United manager.

When Busby was appointed boss at Old Trafford in 1945 he recalled Murphy's actions and brought the 'stranger' on board.

When the Reds boss lay at death's door in the Rechts de Isar Hospital in Munich after the crash, he urged Murphy to keep the flag flying.

Murphy had missed the fatal flight as he was on duty with the Wales national team.

But despite the shock and sadness the dedicated right hand man nursed United back into action and to the 1958 FA Cup Final at Wembley.

Character

"His job was to keep the club going," says his son, Jimmy Murphy junior.

"There were football matches to be played and that's what he'd do - he'd just get on with the bloody job and history has proved what a great character he was.

"Not only did the club stabilise but they went to Wembley.

"My father was a great judge of character and he took three decisions after Munich.

"The club secretary Walter Crickmer had died, there were funerals to organise and this fell to the assistant secretary Les Olive who was a very young man at the time.

"The chairman wanted to advertise for a club secretary but my father said, `No, Les is the man for the job', and he was right because Les carried on doing the job for 30 years.

"He brought Jack Crompton, who was an ex-United goalie working at Luton, to be his number two to get him over the dark days, and he stayed for 15 years.

"He also told Billy Foulkes he was going to be captain. Billy said, `I can't do it and I won't do it' and my father said, `You can and you will.' That's what my dad was like - he had this knack of picking people and he was usually proved right.

Character

"He was in a state of shock, but he was that kind of character. His life was Manchester United because he had no other interests. He had no hobbies, and his job when he got up in the morning was to go down to Manchester United and produce football players. That was what he did.

"Even later in life he'd go down to the club, and talk to the scouts. He was a driven man before Munich and obviously in the days after Munich he was given a task and he'd do it."

Murphy, wpassed away in 1989, is in some ways the `Forgotten Man' of the Busby era, unknown to a generation or two of fans.

"I think the family feel, like a lot of old Manchester United people, including players, that nobody knows who Jimmy Murphy is these days," added his son. "If you talk to a lot of City fans they'll talk about Joe Mercer and Malcolm Allison but if you talk to Manchester United fans they talk about the Matt Busby years.

"I don't think that's right but to be honest it's not what my father would have wanted. He wouldn't have wanted it to be `Busby and Murphy'. He wasn't like that.

"Many years ago we unveiled a bust of my dad in the Munich room at the Old Trafford museum and I did a thank you speech to former chairman Martin Edwards.

"The first thing I said was, `If my father had been alive today he wouldn't have come tonight. I'd have dropped him off at the pub down the road and picked him up after.'

"All the players applauded because that was what he was like. He hated publicity. When he had done 20 years at Old Trafford they presented him with a silver salver and coffee cups and they did it in the boardroom because he refused to go on the pitch."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1035191_forgotten_red_hero

Also, in the comments to that story there is one from "roy paul", who despite being Citeh has some interesting stories about the Babes -

A second little story regarding those Busby Babes, involved Duncan Edwards and Bobby Charlton: Roundabout 1954-55, I used to attend Great Western Street Methodists Youth Club. Among the young girls was a pretty lassie named Doreen Kaye, a Reds fan. One night at the youth club, she was excited that she was going on 'double date' with Bobby Charlton and big Duncan Edwards, and they were going to "the pictures' with Dunc and Bobby. (Great jealousy on my behalf). Next week at the youth club, we all wanted to know how had they got on. I can recall Doreen Kaye's reply. "Well," she said, "it was all going along very nicely, and the 'big picture' hadn't finished, but Duncan Edwards stood up and said to Charlton: 'Come on, Bobby, we've got to go to our digs. We have to be in bed by half-past ten, or else Mrs. Kelly, our landlady, will tell Mr. Busby". And with that they left their dates in the cinema!

[Achtung]

With all the memories of Duncan Edwards revolving around how he could "do it all", I sometimes wonder what he'd make of today's perhaps overly-specialized players who seem to be masters of their specific job but unable to adapt to new roles.

[BusbyBabes]

You may like this..the whole of the Nation on Film programme from the BBC

Lots of excellent footage from games...http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b008x3qp.shtml?filter=txdate%3A04-02&filter=txslot%3Aevening&start=2&scope=iplayerlast7days&version_pid=b008x3kj

[Beckhamania]

I love the Harry Gregg interview. Poignant stuff and it brings me to tears to think about what happened and to read all of the stuff out there about this tragedy.

Long Live United.

[Motterman]

http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_22557_9090.jpg

[jammybastard]

"Nation on Film: Sir Bobby Robson Remembers Munich (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7095227734190399093)

Courtesy of UKNova.