View Full Version : top five players
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 06:47 PM
Top ten is a stretch. There are too many other amazing players to put Riquelme that high up.
How is it a stretch? Of all these "amazing" players, which ones are better at distribution/passing, set-pieces and on field vision? Of those "amazing" players, which ones have club and country depending upon them almost exclusively?
Riquelme was Villarreal and is BOCA and the Albiceleste don't do very well at all without him. You said he's not even top30 so why don't you list said 30 players and why they are ahead of him and better yet, what futbol traits do they outshine Riquelme at. Top five on current form I'll concede but not top30 makes me question just how long you've followed the game.
Hendrixforpope
03 Mar 2008, 07:30 PM
How is it a stretch? Of all these "amazing" players, which ones are better at distribution/passing, set-pieces and on field vision? Of those "amazing" players, which ones have club and country depending upon them almost exclusively?
Riquelme was Villarreal and is BOCA and the Albiceleste don't do very well at all without him. You said he's not even top30 so why don't you list said 30 players and why they are ahead of him and better yet, what futbol traits do they outshine Riquelme at. Top five on current form I'll concede but not top30 makes me question just how long you've followed the game.
Riquelme might be top 5-10 on influence (how much a team depends on him), but there are many players who are just as good technically than him if not better. He's top 3-5 on set-pieces, an excellent passer and has substantial field vision. Overall though, he's not top 10 on the freaking planet.
Dr. Know
03 Mar 2008, 07:39 PM
I can agree that he's not top 10 but your other comment that he's not even top 30 is ridiculous.
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 07:44 PM
Riquelme might be top 5-10 on influence (how much a team depends on him), but there are many players who are just as good technically than him if not better. He's top 3-5 on set-pieces, an excellent passer and has substantial field vision. Overall though, he's not top 10 on the freaking planet.
First he wasn't even top30, now he's 5-10 in influence and 3-5 in set pieces and "substantial" field vision. Now how about listing all these players that are technically as good as him if not better.
I had commented on how long you've watched the game, curiosity got the best of me and I found your post on the Welcome Thread. You've been watching the game for a whole year and a half. Care to share your expertise:rolleyes:
Hendrixforpope
03 Mar 2008, 08:33 PM
First he wasn't even top30, now he's 5-10 in influence and 3-5 in set pieces and "substantial" field vision. Now how about listing all these players that are technically as good as him if not better.
I had commented on how long you've watched the game, curiosity got the best of me and I found your post on the Welcome Thread. You've been watching the game for a whole year and a half. Care to share your expertise:rolleyes:
Actually, it's been more like two years now ;). I can't help when I first started watching the game. Yes, Yes, Yes, I exaggerated on the whole not top 30 thing I will admit it.
Does everyone have to ask for a list?
These are all off the top of my head.
Messi
Ronaldinho (when in good form)
Henry
Fabregas
C. Ronaldo
Robinho
Ribery
Ibrahimovic
Juninho (set-piece master)
Iniesta
Pirlo
Totti
Gerrard
Robben (young, still unproven but amazing nonetheless)
Deco (when not sucking)
All these players have a strong case against Riquelme imo. They might not all be outright better technically than him but they are up there with him. And YES, I have a list of players who are arguably "better" than Riquelme (don't make me post it :D).
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 08:41 PM
Actually, it's been more like two years now ;). I can't help when I first started watching the game. Yes, Yes, Yes, I exaggerated on the whole not top 30 thing I will admit it.
Does everyone have to ask for a list?
These are all off the top of my head.
Messi
Ronaldinho (when in good form)
Henry
Fabregas
C. Ronaldo
Robinho
Ribery
Ibrahimovic
Juninho (set-piece master)
Iniesta
Pirlo
Totti
Gerrard
Robben (young, still unproven but amazing nonetheless)
Deco (when not sucking)
All these players have a strong case against Riquelme imo. They might not all be outright better technically than Riquelme but they are up there with him. And YES, I have a list of players who are arguably "better" than Riquelme (don't make me post it :D).
Two years it is:D Of that list the highlighted ones are the players that have that strong case and different aspects are better than Riquelme. The others albeit good to outstanding players don't come close in complete technique or on pitch intelligence as Riquelme. Solely my opinion of course.
Hendrixforpope
03 Mar 2008, 08:54 PM
I still don't see how Riquelme can fit in the top 5-10 based on overall ability. Top 15-20? Sure. Anyway, I'm sick of debating over the greatness of Riquelme :D. We should make top 5 lists for our clubs.
It is too hard to make a top 5 in order so I'll just put 5 players.
Messi
Eto'o
Xavi
Iniesta
Puyol
Ronaldinho has been too inconsistent to have in the top 5 currently.
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 09:00 PM
I still don't see how Riquelme can fit in the top 5-10 based on overall ability. Top 15-20? Sure. Anyway, I'm sick of debating over the greatness of Riquelme :D. We should make top 5 lists for our clubs.
It is too hard to make a top 5 in order so I'll just put 5 players.
Messi
Eto'o
Xavi
Iniesta
Puyol
Ronaldinho has been too inconsistent to have in the top 5 currently.
I'm not sure we were ever talking about overall ability, just technical:confused: Anyways, top5 for club and country.
Club:
1.Riquelme
2.Claudio Morel Rodriguez
3.Palermo
4.Palacio
5.Ibarra (when healthy)
Country:
1.Mascherano
2.Messi
3.Riquelme
4.Zanetti
5.Demechelis
Hendrixforpope
03 Mar 2008, 09:07 PM
I'm not sure we were ever talking about overall ability, just technical:confused: Anyways, top5 for club and country.
:rolleyes: Fine, Riquelme is in the top 10 in the world as far as technique goes (passing, vision, set-pieces, etc.), but is around 15-20 in overall skill and ability. Is that better?
Brazil (no real order)
Kaka
Julio Cesar
Robinho
Luis Fabiano (very recently)
Juan (I suppose)
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 09:19 PM
:rolleyes: Fine, Riquelme is in the top 10 in the world as far as technique goes (passing, vision, set-pieces, etc.), but is around 15-20 in overall skill and ability. Is that better?
Much better with an acknowledgment that Riquelme plays zero defense;):D
phil80
03 Mar 2008, 09:53 PM
Riquelme is by no means currently in the top 5, nor top 10. Top 30 is debatable and that is mainly due to the fact of lesser competition. He would be in the top 5 or 10 based on PURE TALENT and so would Henry but taking into account the competition Riquelme plays against and both of their lack of form, neither deserve inclusion.
Dr. Know
03 Mar 2008, 10:00 PM
Riquelme is by no means currently in the top 5, nor top 10. Top 30 is debatable and that is mainly due to the fact of lesser competition. He would be in the top 5 or 10 based on PURE TALENT and so would Henry but taking into account the competition Riquelme plays against and both of their lack of form, neither deserve inclusion.
Lack of form? Have you watched Riquelme play recently for both club and country? Henry is already past his prime while Riquelme in the past year or so has played some of the best football of his career. The comparison is retarded.
Top 30 debatable? Get a clue, seriously.
phil80
03 Mar 2008, 10:06 PM
How many games has he played for a European club against TOP COMPETITION recently? Copa America was a good showing but players like Robinho outplayed him. Since the summer he's missed games for Argentina. How can you rate a player that has barely played against top competition all year? Get a clue.
Dr. Know
03 Mar 2008, 10:12 PM
So you clearly haven't been watching him play. You wouldn't be talking about his "lack of form" if you had been. Honestly if you don't know what you're talking about just shut up.
Why is it relevant if Robinho outplayed him or not(which is completely debatable since Robinho only scored against 2 teams in the entire tournament and did nothing in the semi finals or final)? "Since the summer he's missed games for Argentina"? Huh??? He's played in every single World Cup Qualifying game for Argentina and he's the TOP SCORER in all of the qualifiers. All this as a midfielder. He's scored 9 goals in his past 9 games for Argentina. Which again is remarkable for a midfielder. Once again get a clue.
Ohh and thanks for letting me know that you can't rate a player now simply because he doesn't play in Europe. :rolleyes:
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 10:13 PM
Riquelme is by no means currently in the top 5, nor top 10. Top 30 is debatable and that is mainly due to the fact of lesser competition. He would be in the top 5 or 10 based on PURE TALENT and so would Henry but taking into account the competition Riquelme plays against and both of their lack of form, neither deserve inclusion.
Lesser competition?:rolleyes: Where did you get your "lack of form" opinion from? Was it from the comment I made? With regards to Riquelme, my idea of lack of form is based on the fact that he can play better. Is his form off? No he's still all over the attack doing his thing either assisting all our setting up most if not all our gols. The only thing he hasn't done is score and that's because he lets Palermo take the pk's and a couple shots hit the post. He's playing fine, I just think the best is yet to come.
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 10:23 PM
Lack of form? Have you watched Riquelme play recently for both club and country? Henry is already past his prime while Riquelme in the past year or so has played some of the best football of his career. The comparison is retarded.
Top 30 debatable? Get a clue, seriously.
He hasn't watched him play and he knows it.
How many games has he played for a European club against TOP COMPETITION recently? Copa America was a good showing but players like Robinho outplayed him. Since the summer he's missed games for Argentina. How can you rate a player that has barely played against top competition all year? Get a clue.
Top European competition?:rolleyes: Okay whatever, the fact you still question what Riquelme can do is silly. The mans class and ability to play against anyone is currently only questioned by you. He'd be top-shelf regardless of where he plays. Robinho got an award so by default he had a better Copa than Riquelme. I'm guessing you didn't watch much of the Copa if any at all. What games for Argentina has he missed? What would this world do without Europe.
So you clearly haven't been watching him play. You wouldn't be talking about his "lack of form" if you had been. Honestly if you don't know what you're talking about just shut up.
Why is it relevant if Robinho outplayed him or not(which is completely debatable since Robinho only scored against 2 teams in the entire tournament and did nothing in the semi finals or final)? "Since the summer he's missed games for Argentina"? Huh??? He's played in every single World Cup Qualifying game for Argentina and he's the TOP SCORER in all of the qualifiers. All this as a midfielder. He's scored 9 goals in his past 9 games for Argentina. Which again is remarkable for a midfielder. Once again get a clue.
Ohh and thanks for letting me know that you can't rate a player now simply because he doesn't play in Europe. :rolleyes:
C'mon don't you know Europe is the only thing that matters? What people fail to realize that while playing against better competition does help, talent is natural and nothing about moving overseas will change that. You either have it or not.
Hendrixforpope
03 Mar 2008, 10:28 PM
People still arguing about this? I took off my dark sunglasses and realized Riquelme's brilliance (about and hour ago :D)
phil80
03 Mar 2008, 10:41 PM
The fact that you fan-boys can not tell that his form has dropped slightly in the past few years (as did Henry's and Ronaldinho's) is purely laughable. Trying to claim that I haven't watched his games is a childish, foolish arguement and a poor excuse of dodging the discussion. I will ask again, how many games has he played against the top competition in the world since Copa America? Quit squirming and answer the question.
As far as Argentina, Riquelme has missed games this year and Messi had the task of playing central attacking mid, way to show your ignorance Dr. Know, and way to foolishly question Robinho's influence in Copa America, purely insane.
And yes to be rated as the best, a player needs to play against the best week in and week out. Pablo Angel and Roberto Carlos look like monsters in their inferior leagues. That's the nature of the game.
Moishe
03 Mar 2008, 10:43 PM
People still arguing about this? I took off my dark sunglasses and realized Riquelme's brilliance (about and hour ago :D)
Getting Phil to admit Riquelme's greatness is like an addict to admit their illness:eek::D
phil80
03 Mar 2008, 10:44 PM
, the fact you still question what Riquelme can do is silly. The mans class and ability to play against anyone is currently only questioned by you.
When have I questioned what Riquelme can do? Go back and read the part where I said based on talent alone he would be in the top 5 or 10 in the world. The fact that you cant comprehend this only makes you look silly.