top five players

[LondonCule]

Another typical phil80 post. I have nothing further to add.

Teso do you think Ronaldo has better vision than Mess?

[erick]

Teso do you think Ronaldo has better vision than Mess?

yes he does (not just because he is taller :D)

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Yes. His role for Man Utd and Portugal coupled with his performances and record highlight this.

[ChelseaForTheCup(s)]

Are you saying that if you were without doubt the best player in the world over the course of an entire season but I play better for a period of a few weeks then I should be rated higher?



I thought so. The criteria you set clearly excludes Zidane. Anyone including him does so based on aesthetics and aesthetics alone. Aside from that I should point out that Ronaldo has been amongst the best in the world for a longer period of time than Zidane, had a higher peak and has been more influential for club/country. Ronaldo has been the best player in the world for the last two seasons and one of the best wingers before that. Some might call his inclusion premature but I have clearly explained my reasoning. I do find it strange that people continue to do their upmost to belittle him regardless of what he does. I've no idea why.

What has Ronaldo done that's been so great for Portugal?

I don't like to think of Zidane as that amazing, but he won a WC, and Euro, and made it to another WC final. Ronaldo's done nothing of the sort.

[Hendrixforpope]

What has Ronaldo done that's been so great for Portugal?

I don't like to think of Zidane as that amazing, but he won a WC, and Euro, and made it to another WC final. Ronaldo's done nothing of the sort.

He made it to a Euro final ;)

http://www.retirementblog.co.uk/images/02-ronaldo-crying.JPG

[Pekerman]

you clearly don't watch la liga/ have no clue what Messi does on the field beyond highlights. A young and raw messi with expectations/responsibilty/pressure beyond any player in his age is miles better than a finished product Cronaldo.
Not impressed with the latter, think he had a one-season wonder goals wise. Expect the amount of goals to be halved this season with berbatov in. Poaching goal a la Inzaghi against small epl teams that give too much space while choking in the games that matter and almost missing out the titles does not make you a legend. Messi is a big game player yet he consistently performs against bunkering small teams.

no doubt in my mind, messi is the superior player, proved it in the game against manu and will undoubtedly prove it if he stays injury free during the season.
the only argument teso hides behind when he gets cornered, messi is injury prone.....the real ronaldo was also injury prone more so than messi...he only turned out to be the best player of this generation. go figure.

[Perú FC]

I thought so. The criteria you set clearly excludes Zidane. Anyone including him does so based on aesthetics and aesthetics alone. Aside from that I should point out that Ronaldo has been amongst the best in the world for a longer period of time than Zidane, had a higher peak and has been more influential for club/country. Ronaldo has been the best player in the world for the last two seasons and one of the best wingers before that. Some might call his inclusion premature but I have clearly explained my reasoning. I do find it strange that people continue to do their upmost to belittle him regardless of what he does. I've no idea why.
Obviously I would have to begin saying I think everything in bold it's incorrect, actually some affirmations like saying that Ronaldo has been in the elite for more time or has had more influential for his country seems me too feverish :D. As you don't know exactly why the most doesn't share your point of view, I don't know neither how you can believe really that.

The last affirmation I think it's at least debatible, but I'm not agree (as the most I think): "Ronaldo has been the best player in the world for the last two seasons"... was the best the last season, but before was there Kaká first, so aren't the last two really.

Whatever, I think the contrast of your opinion it's clear because, in my personal opinion, you're overrating to Ronaldo and, at the same time, underrating to Zidane, but, well... it's your opinion.

[Antonio81]

There's no way in hell I'm reading through 75 pages of is too:mad: is not:( is too:mad: For me, the trio of Messi, CRonaldo, and Kaka are the best in the world. For CRonaldo to be better, he could have(at the very least) taken his country past an ageing French side 2 years ago, or have been able to beat Greece(jeez) on home soil. Everyone else is way below.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

What has Ronaldo done that's been so great for Portugal?

I don't like to think of Zidane as that amazing, but he won a WC, and Euro, and made it to another WC final. Ronaldo's done nothing of the sort.

So you want to belittle Ronado based on the rest of his team not doing the business? It does not work like that. Ronaldo was a key player for Portugal in the last three international tournaments and he was the one who got them to the last two. He is their key player and has been for quite sometime. The same cannot be said of Zidane who was carried by the rest of his team all too often bar his cameo in Euro 2000 and a couple of games here and there.

you clearly don't watch la liga/ have no clue what Messi does on the field beyond highlights. A young and raw messi with expectations/responsibilty/pressure beyond any player in his age is miles better than a finished product Cronaldo.
Not impressed with the latter, think he had a one-season wonder goals wise. Expect the amount of goals to be halved this season with berbatov in. Poaching goal a la Inzaghi against small epl teams that give too much space while choking in the games that matter and almost missing out the titles does not make you a legend. Messi is a big game player yet he consistently performs against bunkering small teams.

no doubt in my mind, messi is the superior player, proved it in the game against manu and will undoubtedly prove it if he stays injury free during the season.
the only argument teso hides behind when he gets cornered, messi is injury prone.....the real ronaldo was also injury prone more so than messi...he only turned out to be the best player of this generation. go figure.

Read: I am a Messi fanboy and I detest Ronaldo.

That post is so ridiculous that it merits no further response from anyone.

Obviously I would have to begin saying I think everything in bold it's incorrect, actually some affirmations like saying that Ronaldo has been in the elite for more time or has had more influential for his country seems me too feverish :D. As you don't know exactly why the most doesn't share your point of view, I don't know neither how you can believe really that.

The last affirmation I think it's at least debatible, but I'm not agree (as the most I think): "Ronaldo has been the best player in the world for the last two seasons"... was the best the last season, but before was there Kaká first, so aren't the last two really.

Whatever, I think the contrast of your opinion it's clear because, in my personal opinion, you're overrating to Ronaldo and, at the same time, underrating to Zidane, but, well... it's your opinion.

There is no denying that Ronaldo has done more for Portugal than Zidane for France. There is also no denying that Ronaldo has been the best player in the world for the last two complete seasons. Please don't try to defend Kaka being given the award based on two games in one competition. I've already had my say on that particular farce previously. Hopefully I will not have to do similar because Torres finally decided to show up and score in a final [:rolleyes:]. You are the one doing the over/under rating. I'm not saying anything new or startling here. It's there for all to see. The key is whether they want to accept it or not. I advise you to do a search to find the numerous Zidane topics. Read some of those and then see if you still agree with what you have posted previously.

[LondonCule]

Yes. His role for Man Utd and Portugal coupled with his performances and record highlight this.

Completely disagree there. There's no point in sparking another debate. Ronaldo deserves the WPOTY but presently he isn't the best player in the world.

[erick]

He made it to a Euro final ;)

http://www.retirementblog.co.uk/images/02-ronaldo-crying.JPG

www.metacafe.com/watch/225625/c_ronaldo/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/225625/c_ronaldo/)


FrBXqKKSQTU

[vilafria]

www.metacafe.com/watch/225625/c_ronaldo/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/225625/c_ronaldo/)


FrBXqKKSQTU

clear

[Perú FC]

There is no denying that Ronaldo has done more for Portugal than Zidane for France. There is also no denying that Ronaldo has been the best player in the world for the last two complete seasons. Please don't try to defend Kaka being given the award based on two games in one competition. I've already had my say on that particular farce previously. Hopefully I will not have to do similar because Torres finally decided to show up and score in a final [:rolleyes:]. You are the one doing the over/under rating. I'm not saying anything new or startling here. It's there for all to see. The key is whether they want to accept it or not.
Yep, you're not saying anything new about your last opinions mate, and again, I'm disagree with your points of view and still seems me too feverish about Ronaldo and Zidane (and Kaká now :D, saying you think anyone is defending him based on two games seems me a little vehement argument).

I advise you to do a search to find the numerous Zidane topics. Read some of those and then see if you still agree with what you have posted previously.
You're supposing more than you know Teso, do you think really I didn't read all these topics?, and if I didn't, do you think I could change my opinion when I can watch personally all his career?, I believe was really strange anyone put first text impressions when he could watched personally a contemporary player and have an own opinion with own parameters. That's the reason why personal opinions aren't absolute trues :D.

[Antonio81]

Zidane may take more credit than he deserves for some of France's sucesses, but he clearly was behind France's '98 and 2000 wins, and their appearance in the Final, and the French in both 2002 and this year showed what they were made of without him(as well as the games in 1998 and the end of the 2006 final while he served his red card suspensions.) His main problem was being extremely inconsistent.

Cristiano Ronaldo is for the most part consistent, but he hasn't been able to do for his country what he's done at club level. Why wasn't he able to lead his side past the same French two years ago when Portugal(on paper) was a better team? And why couldn't he score against Greece at home(the way he regularly does in the Premiership?) International Cups are far more difficult than club games, and should be the ultimate test in determining who the best players are.

[erick]

www.metacafe.com/watch/225625/c_ronaldo/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/225625/c_ronaldo/)


FrBXqKKSQTU

.....

[ChelseaForTheCup(s)]

Lolz.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Completely disagree there. There's no point in sparking another debate. Ronaldo deserves the WPOTY but presently he isn't the best player in the world.

If you do not want to debate then why bother posting?

Yep, you're not saying anything new about your last opinions mate, and again, I'm disagree with your points of view and still seems me too feverish about Ronaldo and Zidane (and Kaká now :D, saying you think anyone is defending him based on two games seems me a little vehement argument).

Not at all. Kaka was awarded WPOTY based on one tournament (CL) and two games in particular against an injury hit Man Utd defense. I do not see how anyone can defend it. Ronaldo was better throughout the entire season and Kaka should not have been in the top three (not even in Serie A). I do apologise for my vehemence but did you not consider that it is for a very good reason? I'm frankly sick of the rubbish being spouted to deny Ronaldo his due and the rubbish spouted to vastly overrate other individuals. If we do not put a stop to the ignorance now then what chance does anyone else have when looking back in future? There is no excuse.

You're supposing more than you know Teso, do you think really I didn't read all these topics?, and if I didn't, do you think I could change my opinion when I can watch personally all his career?, I believe was really strange anyone put first text impressions when he could watched personally a contemporary player and have an own opinion with own parameters. That's the reason why personal opinions aren't absolute trues :D.

Anyone who honestly believes that Zidane merits the adulation he has been given cannot be taken seriously unless they first admit to basing their opinion on aesthetics. The latter should have no place when attempting to objectively compare players. Over to you on that score.

Zidane may take more credit than he deserves for some of France's sucesses, but he clearly was behind France's '98 and 2000 wins, and their appearance in the Final, and the French in both 2002 and this year showed what they were made of without him(as well as the games in 1998 and the end of the 2006 final while he served his red card suspensions.) His main problem was being extremely inconsistent.

Cristiano Ronaldo is for the most part consistent, but he hasn't been able to do for his country what he's done at club level. Why wasn't he able to lead his side past the same French two years ago when Portugal(on paper) was a better team? And why couldn't he score against Greece at home(the way he regularly does in the Premiership?) International Cups are far more difficult than club games, and should be the ultimate test in determining who the best players are.

You are still guilty of giving Zidane more credit then he merits as, parts of Euro 2000 aside, he was never the driving force for France. As for the second part of your post you completely failed to separate the player from the team. France had success in spite of Zidane but the same cannot be said for Portugal and Ronaldo, because he has been their driving force. One player, particularly in the modern game, can only do so much.

[Antonio81]

You are still guilty of giving Zidane more credit then he merits as, parts of Euro 2000 aside, he was never the driving force for France. As for the second part of your post you completely failed to separate the player from the team. France had success in spite of Zidane but the same cannot be said for Portugal and Ronaldo, because he has been their driving force. One player, particularly in the modern game, can only do so much.Fact: France never won a World Cup without Zidane, there really isn't any way around that. While much of his contribution to France was just the psychologial aspect of him being on the field, he was the main force behind their successes nonetheless, especially considering how horribly France played every time he was absent.

His work ethic was poor for both clubs and country, which is why he could never be ranked along with Pele, Maradona and co., but he often appeared at a crucial moment to deliver the perfect pass or goal to win the game. Also, I'm curious to know who you think led France to their sucesses in 1998 and 2006 if not Zidane.

Cristiano Ronaldo is more of a workhorse and solo artist, he doesn't inspire his teammates or carry his team in the same way, neither does he have Zidane's skills as a creator. And outside of his recent performances for ManU, I would rank Figo as an overall better player than him.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Fact: France never won a World Cup without Zidane, there really isn't any way around that. While much of his contribution to France was just the psychologial aspect of him being on the field, he was the main force behind their successes nonetheless, especially considering how horribly France played every time he was absent.

His work ethic was poor for both clubs and country, which is why he could never be ranked along with Pele, Maradona and co., but he often appeared at a crucial moment to deliver the perfect pass or goal to win the game. Also, I'm curious to know who you think led France to their sucesses in 1998 and 2006 if not Zidane.

Cristiano Ronaldo is more of a workhorse and solo artist, he doesn't inspire his teammates or carry his team in the same way, neither does he have Zidane's skills as a creator. And outside of his recent performances for ManU, I would rank Figo as an overall better player than him.

I will repeat that Zidane was never the driving force behind France. I do not see how you can say what you do in your initial two paragraphs but still make the same claim. As for who led France to their success the answer is clearly their defense. Without that unit they would have got nowhere. Notably when Zidane was either anonymous or suspended. I don't even think it is his work effort but just his style of play. It's a style that affords him his status as people use aesthetics to overrate him. As for his crucial moments in big games you need to examine all of the times he did not deliver. These are far too often forgotten in favour of an incident of two when he did deliver (such as his famous CL goal, the only thing of note he did all game long). The fundamental point is that Zidane has been lucky enough to play in teams that are good enough to carry him when he is not making an impact.

Ronaldo plays for an inferior national team. Granted in terms of individuals you could rank a lot of his team higher than their respective French equivalents but they are a flawed team overall and their lack of a striker has been a major problem. Ronaldo has already carried Portugal to two major tournaments but he cannot do it all alone. No modern player can. In the end it depends entirely on whether the rest of his team decides to step up or not. He trumps Zidane on influence, impact and I would rank him above in terms of creativity as well. He has been the best player in the world for the last two years and before that one of the best wingers. He has already surpassed Figo. Last season he surpassed all of his so-called peers.

[Perú FC]

Not at all. Kaka was awarded WPOTY based on one tournament (CL) and two games in particular against an injury hit Man Utd defense. I do not see how anyone can defend it. Ronaldo was better throughout the entire season and Kaka should not have been in the top three (not even in Serie A). I do apologise for my vehemence but did you not consider that it is for a very good reason? I'm frankly sick of the rubbish being spouted to deny Ronaldo his due and the rubbish spouted to vastly overrate other individuals. If we do not put a stop to the ignorance now then what chance does anyone else have when looking back in future? There is no excuse.
Anyone who honestly believes that Zidane merits the adulation he has been given cannot be taken seriously unless they first admit to basing their opinion on aesthetics. The latter should have no place when attempting to objectively compare players. Over to you on that score.
I believe the main problem is you take the discussion too personal about the players (Ronaldo, Zidane, Kaká...), and that's the reason why you defending each time with more eagerness your points of view, you're falling in too extreming opinions, and, in my opinion, that's the main reason because your points of view would seem stranges and maybe biased, and more when you think any different is from an ignorant fanatic and you've to teach them, come on mate :D!:

I'm disagree with the opinion about Kaká, I think he was better than Ronaldo in the general review of the entire 2007 (not only in Champions League or one or two matches), maybe not for much because Ronaldo was good also, but with a difference that could have been given by the events you describe and it's different to believe those are the only merits of him.