top five players

[Beazley17]

My top 5 players now!!!

Ronaldo, injured or not, until he falls off.
1.Ronaldo
2.Messi
3.Kaka
4.Essien
5.Senna

[erick]

My top 5 players now!!!

Ronaldo, injured or not, until he falls off.
1.Ronaldo
2.Messi
3.Kaka
4.Essien
5.Senna

senna deserves to be in the top 20 but not top five

[Beazley17]

senna deserves to be in the top 20 but not top five

Right now, I thought he was the MVP in the Euros for Spain, and his club form has Villareal 13 points in 5 games, and tied for first in La Liga. Yes, it may be high, but I think of him very high as a player, and he is just a leader on the pitch.

[erick]

Right now, I thought he was the MVP in the Euros for Spain, and his club form has Villareal 13 points in 5 games, and tied for first in La Liga. Yes, it may be high, but I think of him very high as a player, and he is just a leader on the pitch.


he is but del piero,c.ronaldo,torres,rooney,eto,diego,and fabregas are playing much better

[Beazley17]

he is but del piero,c.ronaldo,torres,rooney,eto,diego,and fabregas are playing much better

Ronaldo is # 1 on my list, other than that, the other players are comparable. Senna has been playing great football this year, and is one of the top players in the World. Comparing Senna, to Fabergas, Del Piero etc is like Apples and Oarnges. The other players listed are strikers/forwards.

[Perú FC]

Ronaldo can and does do more. Stating so is not fanaticism. It's fact. See the response to Moishe below.
Saying "it's fact" to a personal opinion isn't ever a reliable source :D, it's just one more detail that outlines a closed defense that seems fanatic, not only because you're a Manchester United supporter, also because, except for people only guides theirselves for known names (which isn't your case), isn't common that anyone put in an all-time ideal team to a guy who's 23 and don't have at least 10 professional seasons played (I think he has 7 only and maybe only 2 or 3 of them in a elite group). It's like people who said some years ago Ronaldinho was the best player ever or revising in the list of Pelé names like Emre Belözöglu. All are respectable opinions but isn't enough credible that affirmation be not fanatic from a guy who know at least a decent knowledge about football.

This coming from someone who included Zidane in their Dream Team (in the same thread)?
Mentioning to Zidane is a danger with you :p, it's preferible to say he's a retired player who played for 18 years and "maybe" had enough time in the professional game to catalogue him in an historic discussion. As I'm not French, Juventus or Real Madrid supporter, neither European at least, I think it's difficult to guess a biased opinion.

Whatever it's only an opinion, I'm not going to say Zidane should be "in fact" there, less I'm going to say in any opportunity, "this coming from someone who included Cristiano Ronaldo in his all-time Dream Team?" :D.

[phil80]

Man Utd won the Premiership and Champions League without a striker. It would not have happened if the likes of Ronaldo did not have vision.

Messi plays further forward in a defined role and with a more conservative team. Ronaldo does not which requires him, and others, to do a lot more in terms of tracking back and defending across the pitch.
.
Man utd won the premiership for many reasons, but ronaldo's 'vision' was hardly one of them. man utd didnt need ronaldo's vision to win, especially since he did the scoring and scholes, carrick provided the vision and passing. A team needs balance to win, some players do the scoring, others the dirty work, and others the passing and vision and ronaldo was not the main one providing the latter.

Your second point started off correctly, Ronaldo does play in a system requiring him to track back more but that doesnt necessarily mean he did it.

[erick]

Ronaldo is # 1 on my list, other than that, the other players are comparable. Senna has been playing great football this year, and is one of the top players in the World. Comparing Senna, to Fabergas, Del Piero etc is like Apples and Oarnges. The other players listed are strikers/forwards.

u cant compare something that doesnt exist....

senna is not top three spain nevertheless top five world wide

spain

1) torres
2)fabregas
3) villa
4) senna
5) casillas

[phil80]

spain

1) torres
2)fabregas
3) villa
4) senna
5) casillas
:eek: Completely disagree...You dont watch many spanish players do you? Go back and watch Spain's qualification matches to Euro. Not including xavi nor iniesta, putting cesc second, and casillas fifth makes no sense.

[KumarsS]

u cant compare something that doesnt exist....

senna is not top three spain nevertheless top five world wide

spain

1) torres
2)fabregas
3) villa
4) senna
5) casillas

Top 5 NT performers:

1. Casillas
2. Senna
3. Xavi
4. Villa
5. Torres

Top 5 Spanish players:

1. Casillas
2. Fabregas
3. Torres
4. Senna
5. Iniesta

Fabregas would certainly be on the first list had he been made a more integral part of the set-up before this summer.

[Perú FC]

About Spanish players, I'd say:

1. Íker Casillas
2. Fernando Torres
3. David Villa
4. Cesc Fábregas
5. Andrés Iniesta

Senna was great in the Euro, I think the best player of the tournament over Xavi and is good in Villarreal, but I'm not sure if he could be considered in a current Top 5 yet. Definitely he's at least near as Xavi, David Silva, Sergio Ramos and personally Raúl Albiol.

[phil80]

Top 5 NT performers:

1. Casillas
2. Senna
3. Xavi
4. Villa
5. Torres


Fabregas would certainly be on the first list had he been made a more integral part of the set-up before this summer.
If by NT performers you are only basing it on euros then i would agree with your list but if you include qualifiers and friendlies within the past year (which takes into account more than just 5 or 6 games) then Iniesta played a bigger role on the team.

[Hendrixforpope]

Casillas IS Spain's most important player. Period.

[phil80]

Casillas IS Spain's most important player. Period.
Agree

[Dr. Know]

Maybe but it's very debatable. Casillas performances for Spain haven't been as dominating as his performances for Real Madrid. Senna is definitely up there in his importance to Spain.

[ChelseaForTheCup(s)]

Casillas wasn't kept very busy during Euro.

[erick]

Casillas wasn't kept very busy during Euro.

because they had a good defense and the opponents were worried about the offense to much

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I don't buy this Teso. That claim that "Ronaldo scored the 40 goals from the wing" is a myth and you know it. Ronaldo played in an extremely advanced role for most of the season. He had freedom to roam all around the front. The likes of Tevez regularly dropped further into midfield than Ronaldo did. Ronaldo played essentially as a forward and I bet he spent just as much time if not more in or right around the box than both of ManU's forwards. I'm pretty sure he took more shots on goal than both of them as well.

There are certain things Ronaldo can do that Messi can't mostly because of Messi's size. It's something you can hardly hold against him. Besides those things there aren't a lot of things where Ronaldo is much better than Messi at.

I have been through all of this before and my claim of 'from the wing' was made for a precise reason. I know that Ronaldo is not a winger by any normal definition of the word and he is does roam across the pitch but his game, role in the side and style of play involve him predominantly playing from the wing. It is where he initially lines up and where the bulk of his moves begin. Ronaldo plays from the wing which is why he does not function as well when forced to stay on the wing for whatever reason. As for his shots on goal if you had bothered to look at his conversion ratio it was a lot better than most strikers and that is a key point. Notably as he takes set-pieces when the vast majority of them do not. Doing so would only reduce his conversion ratio in direct comparison. It makes his record even more impressive. Your latter section is doing Ronaldo a disservice.

Saying "it's fact" to a personal opinion isn't ever a reliable source :D, it's just one more detail that outlines a closed defense that seems fanatic, not only because you're a Manchester United supporter, also because, except for people only guides theirselves for known names (which isn't your case), isn't common that anyone put in an all-time ideal team to a guy who's 23 and don't have at least 10 professional seasons played (I think he has 7 only and maybe only 2 or 3 of them in a elite group). It's like people who said some years ago Ronaldinho was the best player ever or revising in the list of Pelé names like Emre Belözöglu. All are respectable opinions but isn't enough credible that affirmation be not fanatic from a guy who know at least a decent knowledge about football.

Mentioning to Zidane is a danger with you :p, it's preferible to say he's a retired player who played for 18 years and "maybe" had enough time in the professional game to catalogue him in an historic discussion. As I'm not French, Juventus or Real Madrid supporter, neither European at least, I think it's difficult to guess a biased opinion.

Whatever it's only an opinion, I'm not going to say Zidane should be "in fact" there, less I'm going to say in any opportunity, "this coming from someone who included Cristiano Ronaldo in his all-time Dream Team?" :D.

I did so in order to spark debate and it was obviously a success. When discussing teams of that nature there is a lot of debate in regard to old versus modern, overall career versus peak years, etc. Ronaldo's inclusion involves a discussion of the latter. Normally I would counter with it being too short a period of time but Ronaldo has been one of the best wingers for a number of seasons before you even consider last season when he was given more freedom and had his exceptional season. That, I feel, requires attention and discussion. Particularly when people are refusing to acknowledge it.

We both know my stance on Zidane and it works perfectly into my argument for Ronaldo's inclusion. Ronaldo's peak is greater, his peak years longer and his importance to club/country far greater.

Man utd won the premiership for many reasons, but ronaldo's 'vision' was hardly one of them. man utd didnt need ronaldo's vision to win, especially since he did the scoring and scholes, carrick provided the vision and passing. A team needs balance to win, some players do the scoring, others the dirty work, and others the passing and vision and ronaldo was not the main one providing the latter.

Your second point started off correctly, Ronaldo does play in a system requiring him to track back more but that doesnt necessarily mean he did it.

Spoken like someone who did not watch any of the players or matches in question. Honestly phil80, stating that in regard to Ronaldo is foolish in the extreme. My latter point stands, notably as you have already acknowledged that you know little in regard to last season. I could correct you but I have neither the time nor effort. Later.

[phil80]

My latter point stands.
Wrong as usual. The fact that you think ronaldo has better vision than messi is beyond logic. You either don't know what the definition of the word is or you're letting your fanboyism get the best of you or you have never watched messi play...it's probably a combination of all three.
I dont even think other CRonaldo fanboys wiould agree with you to place him in an alltimer list, proof you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Another typical phil80 post. I have nothing further to add.