top five players

[Moishe]

i am guessing that you concede messi played more than just two games in that position.

As for riquelme, i dont know what game you were watching saying he was the only one creating anything. He was nonexistent besides a few random shots on goal and his gameplay was not there as well, so i dont know how you can claim that he was the only one to 'show up'. And we wont even go into his last performance against brazil

What game were you watching? In the Copa final he was the only offensive player that showed anything in that match. Don't think so, go ask some of the Brazilians on here. Where was Messi that match? Really less effective but hey, that was probably Riquelme's fault huh?

In the last performance he was pretty mediocre but to boast about Messi playing better when he kinda stunk it up himself is a reach. Never figured you to be a fanboy Phil.

[phil80]

Riquelme played as well in the copa final as messi played against brazil in their recent match. Both were subpar for both games (and no riquelme was not a threat offensively besides a few shots on goal, rewatch the game, brazil's midfield kept him quiet throughout). The difference is both games the speed of the attack, lineup, formation revolved around riquelme and in the second game it was an obvious hinderance to messi's play. It is not riquelme's fault because that's his style of play and it works against mediocre teams, but against quality opponents it has shown ineffective and hurt messi's overall performances.

[Mojam5]

What game were you watching? In the Copa final he was the only offensive player that showed anything in that match. Don't think so, go ask some of the Brazilians on here.
As a Brazilian fan, I do not think Riquelme showed much offensively, neither did any other Argentinian player. Dunga did a good job marking the middle leaving little space for them to operate

[bosterosoy]

As a Brazilian fan, I do not think Riquelme showed much offensively, neither did any other Argentinian player. Dunga did a good job marking the middle leaving little space for them to operate

The difference was that Messi was not double marked and tightly marked every time he got the ball like Riquelme was in that final and despite all that, he was the only player that create some chances. Messi on the other hand barely touched the ball and i don't think had a shot the entire game, despite the defense's focus being on Riquelme, and not Messi. That is the difference between what Riquelme did in that final and what Messi did this last qualifier (not to mention his poor display in that final).

Riquelme in the past year has played better than Messi with the national team. That's pretty much the whole story, while the best player has been Macsherano and Demichelis is also in the mix

[Moishe]

As a Brazilian fan, I do not think Riquelme showed much offensively, neither did any other Argentinian player. Dunga did a good job marking the middle leaving little space for them to operate

...but he showed the ONLY offense.

The difference was that Messi was not double marked and tightly marked every time he got the ball like Riquelme was in that final and despite all that, he was the only player that create some chances. Messi on the other hand barely touched the ball and i don't think had a shot the entire game, despite the defense's focus being on Riquelme, and not Messi. That is the difference between what Riquelme did in that final and what Messi did this last qualifier (not to mention his poor display in that final).

Riquelme in the past year has played better than Messi with the national team. That's pretty much the whole story, while the best player has been Macsherano and Demichelis is also in the mix

Somehow certain posters will find the reason Messi didn't show at all to Riquelmes fault. I guess it doesn't matter that Sergio Batista stated that for all the talent Messi has, his movement without the ball is bad. Damn that Riquelme.

[gmonn]

Never figured you to be a fanboy Phil.
__________________
A friend asked me today; mate you seem happy today, did your wife finally come home? No I said, Roman came back to BOCA!!!!!!!!!

I just have to say, that last sentence juxtaposed with your sig was pretty ironic.

[SCFootballFanatic]

Ferdinand
Ronaldo
Messi
Essien
Buffon

[Moishe]

I just have to say, that last sentence juxtaposed with your sig was pretty ironic.

I've never made any secrets as to who my favorite modern player is nor have I gone around making excuses for his recent poor form. Others have pointed out his injuries and illness which while a factor does not give him or any other player a free pass. I'm not afraid to call Riquelme out when he's sucking which should negate the "irony" comment about fanboyism. My choice to use the term was due in large part to Phil's refusal to acknowledge any faults in Messi's game. For every poor Argentina performance recently in which both players were below par, he's made it a point to emphasize that it's Riquelme's style of play that has caused Messi to look average which is complete bullshit. For all the things Messi does fantastic at, the one part of his game that needs growth is off the ball movement and thats not just my opinion, one of the Argentina coaches Sergio Batista even stated the same in Ole'.

I personally think Messi is amongst the top two or three most talented players in the world. What kills me is the amount of hype that people spew about him when in reality he's an injury prone players that still has a lot to show in the areas of heart, vision and fitness.

[phil80]

Somehow certain posters will find the reason Messi didn't show at all to Riquelmes fault. I guess it doesn't matter that Sergio Batista stated that for all the talent Messi has, his movement without the ball is bad. Damn that Riquelme.
what are you talking about? argentina's play focuses and revolves around one player, riquelme, their coach even admitted to it. messi has been less than stellar around that system, especially when argentina plays stronger opposition. so the system is at fault, NOT riquelme, not messi. they do deserve criticism but its not as cut and dry as one player deserves all the fault.
I just have to say, that last sentence juxtaposed with your sig was pretty ironic.
exactly, moishe thinks by calling other people fanboys,l it will deflect his obvious man-crush fanboyism with riquelme
Phil's refusal to acknowledge any faults in Messi's game. For every poor Argentina performance recently in which both players were below par, he's made it a point to emphasize that it's Riquelme's style of play that has caused Messi to look average which is complete bullshit.

when have i refused to acknowledge his faults? ive said it in many other posts, messi is too injury prone, needs to improve his vision, get stronger on the ball, and release it quicker in the box. given all these things, he is the most talented player right now and when he has been underperforming for argentina it is LARGELY (not all) due to the system and his lack of chemistry with the focal point of that system, riquelme.

[Hendrixforpope]

I can remember other threads that have been ruined by the 'Phil vs. rest of Board' battle. The argument almost always has something to do with Riquelme and always includes Moishe :D

[phil80]

riquelme has lots of fanboys that never quit, ie zidane vs riquelme thread

[Moishe]

I can remember other threads that have been ruined by the 'Phil vs. rest of Board' battle. The argument almost always has something to do with Riquelme and always includes Moishe :D

The underlined says it all. Someone needs to accept that others that are as knowledgeable if not more so can and will disagree with him. As far as my defending Riquelme, I also can be pretty damn critical of him. Spend enough time in the BOCA/Argentina threads and you'd know that;)

riquelme has lots of fanboys that never quit, ie zidane vs riquelme thread

Did you get Messi's named inked on your backside yet?:rolleyes:

[phil80]

blah blah blah
As usual, nothing to refute the points and no constructive contributions to the discussion, just mindless attacks... it has become expected from you :rolleyes:

[Hendrixforpope]

Do I have to separate you boys? :p

It's time for Phil to take a time-out and sit in the corner. :D

[phil80]

hendrix, do you just post for the sake of posting? if you and moishe have nothing relevant to add on the riquelme issue then move on and let the thread get back on topic.

[Hendrixforpope]

hendrix, do you just post for the sake of posting? if you and moishe have nothing relevant to add on the riquelme issue then move on and let the thread get back on topic.

I'm just an outsider in this whole argument looking in and laughing. I'm ready to move on when everyone else is.

[Moishe]

what are you talking about? argentina's play focuses and revolves around one player, riquelme, their coach even admitted to it. messi has been less than stellar around that system, especially when argentina plays stronger opposition. so the system is at fault, NOT riquelme, not messi. they do deserve criticism but its not as cut and dry as one player deserves all the fault.

Way to go Captain Obvious! The whole world knows that all the play from the Albicelestes goes through Riquelme, that is their system and for the most part has been since Pekerman lost us the match against Germany. The team has struggled over the course of a few games yet the clear answer is to bench Riquelme even though he's been our best player over the past 2 1/2 to three years next to Mascherano. All the above quote reiterates is what most of us in the Argentina forums have been saying all along, changing the players is not the answer as long as the system remains intact. So with that in mind, why would you bench Riquelme?

exactly, moishe thinks by calling other people fanboys,l it will deflect his obvious man-crush fanboyism with riquelme

I've never made secrets as to my favorite player is since the mid 90's. I've also never claimed that he could do no wrong or that he was one of the all time greats or the worlds best player for that matter. When he is in his groove no doubt exists as to where he stands in the world game. Where you fail with the term fanboy is that said person takes a single-minded view but being that I've openly criticized Riquelme when he's played bad and even gone as far as to state that he shouldn't have started the match against Ecuador kind of goes against the grain of what a fanboy is. Nice to know how to touch a nerve with you.

when have i refused to acknowledge his faults? ive said it in many other posts, messi is too injury prone, needs to improve his vision, get stronger on the ball, and release it quicker in the box. given all these things, he is the most talented player right now and when he has been underperforming for argentina it is LARGELY (not all) due to the system and his lack of chemistry with the focal point of that system, riquelme.

You also forgot his at best good off the ball movement. Again not my opinion but that of Sergio Batista. Fabulous player and the most talented player in the world when fit but he's yet to show he's the clear cut answer for all that woes us. You started harping on this chemistry stuff when you came to the Argentina forums and for all of us that pointed out they've had more good games together than bad you pointed out that it wasn't against better teams. If that is the case why did you use the most recent friendly against Mexico as a large part of your argument as to why Messi should be our enghanche?


Staying on topic, my top five players at the moment in no particular order are:
1. Casillas
2. Buffon
3. Ferdinand
4. Messi
5. C. Ronaldo
:rolleyes:

[El viejo Matias]

Ha, ha, ha pages and pages of discussion sorrounding Argentine players, I have not seen mention of one Brasilian in all this mess:D.

[Moishe]

As usual, nothing to refute the points and no constructive contributions to the discussion, just mindless attacks... it has become expected from you :rolleyes:

I missed this the first time through which explains the sequence of posts so yes I have refuted points. As for my contributions, I get on very well with many many posters outside and have had great discussions so stop being so pompous because you don't like people disagreeing with you
.
Do I have to separate you boys? :p

It's time for Phil to take a time-out and sit in the corner. :D

And people say Teso is bad.

I'm just an outsider in this whole argument looking in and laughing. I'm ready to move on when everyone else is.

I've posted my top five in one of the above posts. Feel free to question or critique whichever ones you want. Also do you post for the sake of posting?

[Moishe]

Ha, ha, ha pages and pages of discussion sorrounding Argentine players, I have not seen mention of one Brasilian in all this mess:D.

Pretty good stuff. How's Tomas, when are you going to post some pix of the newest pibe'?