top five players

[lems87]

We don't even have the World Club Cup on TV and noone ever hears about it, its a pity really. I dont understand what you mean about getting paired against teams such as Brondby, this year the teams that were not so good were Slavia Prague, Steaua, Besiktas, Kiev (usually good), CSKA (usually good). The other 27 clubs are all top top class in Europe, how can u say Arsenal vs. AC, Roma vs. Real, Liverpool vs. Inter etc are not top games they're all massive games of the best clubs.

Despite my arguments it is true football is 11vs11, anyone can win on their day. Pity is its unlikely we'll ever get to see lots of games of South America vs. Europe that they will actually play for in terms of points.

[Moishe]

We don't even have the World Club Cup on TV and noone ever hears about it, its a pity really. I dont understand what you mean about getting paired against teams such as Brondby, this year the teams that were not so good were Slavia Prague, Steaua, Besiktas, Kiev (usually good), CSKA (usually good). The other 27 clubs are all top top class in Europe, how can u say Arsenal vs. AC, Roma vs. Real, Liverpool vs. Inter etc are not top games they're all massive games of the best clubs.

Despite my arguments it is true football is 11vs11, anyone can win on their day. Pity is its unlikely we'll ever get to see lots of games of South America vs. Europe that they will actually play for in terms of points.

Lems I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what it is that I mean. It's not that Milan, Real.....are not great teams, that's a given. More so when they are matched together is it really a magical scenario. What I meant by using those particular teams was more of an example. In the early rounds of the CL or even UEFA Cup is that for all the outstanding sides, they're sides that come from pretty at best decent leagues. Some feel that by default of their being in Europe they must be better than Argentinas and Brazils top teams and to a lesser degree sides that are on a hot streak. It's common that a side of 11 organized men with a common goal can overcome a star studded side is said side is not focused. What it boils down to is that the gap b/w Europe and South America is overly inflated and for the exception of certain sides in certain leagues, the gap is not that big.

[lems87]

Lems I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what it is that I mean. It's not that Milan, Real.....are not great teams, that's a given. More so when they are matched together is it really a magical scenario. What I meant by using those particular teams was more of an example. In the early rounds of the CL or even UEFA Cup is that for all the outstanding sides, they're sides that come from pretty at best decent leagues. Some feel that by default of their being in Europe they must be better than Argentinas and Brazils top teams and to a lesser degree sides that are on a hot streak. It's common that a side of 11 organized men with a common goal can overcome a star studded side is said side is not focused. What it boils down to is that the gap b/w Europe and South America is overly inflated and for the exception of certain sides in certain leagues, the gap is not that big.


I agree with PART of your comment. The teams from qualifying and early UEFA cup are useless and mainly there so as everyone from europe gets a fair shot at taking part, but the group stage onwards of champions league is definitely top quality. I agree South American teams are most likely better than teams e.g. from Denmark, Sweden, Bulgaria etc and perhaps as good as teams like Dynamo Zagreb etc, but my idea is that there is then a big gulf in class between these teams and the top champions league teams which mostly are the same year on year. I think you believe by Europe's best I am meaning all of Europe, I agree lots of teams are not as good as the South Americans best but the champions league teams are better I believe. It's not just money that players from South America move to Europe, there must be something else about it.

[Moishe]

I agree with PART of your comment. The teams from qualifying and early UEFA cup are useless and mainly there so as everyone from europe gets a fair shot at taking part, but the group stage onwards of champions league is definitely top quality. I agree South American teams are most likely better than teams e.g. from Denmark, Sweden, Bulgaria etc and perhaps as good as teams like Dynamo Zagreb etc, but my idea is that there is then a big gulf in class between these teams and the top champions league teams which mostly are the same year on year. I think you believe by Europe's best I am meaning all of Europe, I agree lots of teams are not as good as the South Americans best but the champions league teams are better I believe. It's not just money that players from South America move to Europe, there must be something else about it.

You and I are on the same page trust me. Certainly BOCA, river, Sao Paolo, Inter, Fluminese....are indeed at slightly lower level in terms of talent than the top European sides. But not so much so that it is a given that in head to head the top Europeans sides will win hands down. That hasn't been the case yet. That has always been my point. Unfortunately some folks just refuse to acknowledge that. Is ManU a stronger side than BOCA? Absolutely but is Wigan, Sunderland or Reading? Not likely. The Atlas v BOCA Copa Lib match is about to start so wish us luck.:)

[lems87]

Yea good luck pity I have no way of watching it! Dynamo Zagreb have beaten many good teams on their day, for all I know Boca could be a bit of a Fenerbache and beat Real! Would be interesting, maybe they should have a tournament, the winners of the leagues in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Columbia, against Croatia, England, Spain, France, Scotland, Germany, Portugal etc, duno how they'd fit it in tho, but would be interesting, I bet a game like Rangers vs. Boca would be interesting, very different teams. What do you think would happen if say Boca played a similar style team like...er...Sporting? Benfica?

[Moishe]

Yea good luck pity I have no way of watching it! Dynamo Zagreb have beaten many good teams on their day, for all I know Boca could be a bit of a Fenerbache and beat Real! Would be interesting, maybe they should have a tournament, the winners of the leagues in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Columbia, against Croatia, England, Spain, France, Scotland, Germany, Portugal etc, duno how they'd fit it in tho, but would be interesting, I bet a game like Rangers vs. Boca would be interesting, very different teams. What do you think would happen if say Boca played a similar style team like...er...Sporting? Benfica?

They'd be good match-ups and the outcome would probably come down to which side is in best form at the time. Each of those sides would have some pretty good strengths and weaknesses. What BOCA does have going for it is that folks fail to realize what a good defense we have with a starter still out. Argentina and Portugal may be the closest comparison I've heard yet when comparing leagues.

[phil80]

Your impossible. You refuse to answer a simple question which arose from this thread. Your list of 30, while great players didn't not answer the question which hasn't changed since I posted it and asked; what 30 players are as influential for club and country as Riquelme is for BOCA and Argentina? You can't answer the question because you simply can't and you throw a strawman list of 30 that you consider to be the overall best. That's fine but not what I asked of you. As for those two matches you referenced, yes he will have some shots and passes which are mistimed and wasteful, it comes part and parcel with touching the ball as much as he does. All roads leave from Roman. How many other players have that influence? Answer the question Phil and stop with the overly polarized view of World Futbol.

As for players that Riquelme is superior too, based on passing set-pieces, pitch vision and leadership and most importantly reliance from both club and country. Keep in mind Phil this is for players that do all these things for both club and country not one or the other. Also in no order:



4. Robinho - really emerged to quiet a lot of critics. This year stepped it up for club/country with an excellent Copa but hardly the most influential for either.

You're having a hard time understanding this. The point of this thread are the top players currently. The criteria you are asking for is irrelevant in this thread. I listed players that either are (or arguably are) better than him. I still can not figure out why you listed a bunch of random players that I did not bring up. I said to indicate the players that you think are not currently better than him based on the ones I listed .

I started going through the list but after I read your horrendous analysis on Robinho, I couldn't read anymore.

[Moishe]

Now go ahead and list what players Riquelme is superior to, since last time you were incapable of doing this.

You're having a hard time understanding this. The point of this thread are the top players currently. The criteria you are asking for is irrelevant in this thread. I listed players that either are (or arguably are) better than him. I still can not figure out why you listed a bunch of random players that I did not bring up. I said to indicate the players that you think are not currently better than him based on the ones I listed .

I started going through the list but after I read your horrendous analysis on Robinho, I couldn't read anymore.

You clearly need to sort it out Phil. The top is what you asked to which I responded. What's the problem? Had you wanted me to respond to your specific list then maybe you should have gone beyond the assumption that anyone knows what's in Phils mind. You asked for 30 players and you got 30 players. Stop pouting and get over yourself. Keep in mind you jumped into a conversation b/w myself and Hendrix in which we were having a specific discussion which you chose to invite yourself to respond to. If you didn't like the criteria that we were using then maybe you should just moved on. It's really simple, you try to get high and mighty on anyone that disagrees with you. Some gripe about Teso but he's not nearly as obnoxious as you. If you disagree with my posts and opinions, simply don't respond. Pretty simple huh?

[Hendrixforpope]

Can someone (a mod) close this thread because this isn't going anywhere.

[Moishe]

Can someone (a mod) close this thread because this isn't going anywhere.

Don't hate on me Hendrix. I've posted the obligatory lists three different times with two coming in one post. It's clear somebody doesn't play well with others.

[Hendrixforpope]

Don't hate on me Hendrix. I've posted the obligatory lists three different times with two coming in one post. It's clear somebody doesn't play well with others.

I'm not hating on you, I'm just stating that all this never ending, back and forth arguing is getting old.

[Moishe]

I'm not hating on you, I'm just stating that all this never ending, back and forth arguing is getting old.

Agreed. Either he learns to be opened minded or he should just not bother responding to those he disagrees with. I'm not trying to be right, just sharing my opinions.

[Hendrixforpope]

Agreed. Either he learns to be opened minded or he should just not bother responding to those he disagrees with. I'm not trying to be right, just sharing my opinions.

You guys should take it up in World Rivalries :D. That's the place to go :rolleyes:

[Moishe]

You guys should take it up in World Rivalries :D. That's the place to go :rolleyes:

He wouldn't last five minutes and you know it.

[phil80]

You clearly need to sort it out Phil. The top is what you asked to which I responded. What's the problem? Had you wanted me to respond to your specific list then maybe you should have gone beyond the assumption that anyone knows what's in Phils mind. You asked for 30 players and you got 30 players. Stop pouting and get over yourself. Keep in mind you jumped into a conversation b/w myself and Hendrix in which we were having a specific discussion which you chose to invite yourself to respond to. If you didn't like the criteria that we were using then maybe you should just moved on. It's really simple, you try to get high and mighty on anyone that disagrees with you. Some gripe about Teso but he's not nearly as obnoxious as you. If you disagree with my posts and opinions, simply don't respond. Pretty simple huh?
This shows how ridiculous you are. I was not even responding to you, I was responding to erick and backing up what lems87 was saying. I've had enough of your foolishness, do you notice the thread was going so well until you came in with your fanboyism and immaturity?
Either learn to take opinions other than your own or stop posting.

Back to the thread topic.

[Moishe]

This shows how ridiculous you are. I was not even responding to you, I was responding to erick and backing up what lems87 was saying. I've had enough of your foolishness, do you notice the thread was going so well until you came in with your fanboyism and immaturity?
Either learn to take opinions other than your own or stop posting.

Back to the thread topic.

I have Mr Happy. My list of the top five is listed. Care to refute it? The other conversations all branched off of one particular conversation. Like I said Phil if you don't care for my opinions then don't respond. I've shown a willingness to be open-minded to those that have questioned my list of 30. Funny but none of those guys and I got into a pissing contest. I wonder why. Now again my list of the Top5 is posted question it if you want but at least give explanations as to why that goes beyond "I said".

[Hendrixforpope]

*repeatedly smashes head against keyboard*

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[Moishe]

*repeatedly smashes head against keyboard*

asdi nsadkjlhqwieugkfhvqief3q4985y1bn 98ta-3tqwev2qwaksldj oqweih sdokjvc waoih sadasd;weksdohqioqwrhifjaoh ga324985723409857eqrt whrinqdaihhhhhhhhq3egerwei930t 29hdfihg dfvero 8888

:Dsmoke a joint, it's much more enjoyable.

[Hendrixforpope]

:Dsmoke a joint, it's much more enjoyable.

That's what you and Phil need to do to finally get along ;).

[Teso Dos Bichos]

1. Cesc - he has proved this season over and over again to be able to carry the entire arsenal team on his back, here he is known as 'the conductor.' The other night he almost singlehandedly destroyed milan.

Fabregas had a very good purple patch at the start of the season but has steadily went off the boil. The AC Milan match has been his best performance for months. The season before he went missing for the vast majority of games.