top five players

[Kulspruta]

I don't quite understand what you guys are arguing about... Zindane is easily top 20 all time, in my eyes top 5 of ALL TIME.

Are you mad? Looking at only one country, there are at the very least three players from the last generation that should be placed near Zidane in an all time ranking: Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Romário. If I stop to think about other countries, I'll find another bunch. How many players can we fit in a top 5? And what about Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Puskas, Garrincha, Beckenbauer, Best, Zico, Platini, Eusebio, etc? Zidane was a great player, and probably deserves a mention in a top 50.

[Hendrixforpope]

Are you mad? Looking at only one country, there are at the very least three players from the last generation that should be placed near Zidane in an all time ranking: Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Romário. If I stop to think about other countries, I'll find another bunch. How many players can we fit in a top 5? And what about Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Puskas, Garrincha, Beckenbauer, Best, Zico, Platini, Eusebio, etc? Zidane was a great player, and probably deserves a mention in a top 50.

I can agree with that. Zidane top 50.

[lems87]

I still believe he is top 5, I have watched Romario, Pele, Zico, Plantini, Cruyff, Maradonna is nowhere near the top 5, he was a great player but hes a bloody cheat, it would forgive him if admitted he handballed it for his Hand of God goal but he still wont admit it. Pity cos in the same game he probably scored the best goal of a world cup. I watched Zindane play so many times and every time was a treat, same with usually watching Nedved. Zindae just was always perfect, I think people too often remember him for the headbutt, but he was great, how many other people have an entire film just watching him, one of his goals was also voted best ever in the European Cup. Plus im pretty sure he's won the most player of the year awards along with Ronaldo, altho this is reasonably recent. Its all well and good claiming these players are better than him but they're a different standard, I truely believe some of them would not be as good under current conditions but I guess that will never be tested.

As to the guy adding more names to best current players I would say def no Zanetti, Juninho or De Rossi, they're not up there with the greats despite being good players.

And as to the comment about Riquelme and not being as good at Boca I will take back my comments as I have only seen highlights since he moved there so I'm not in a good enough position to comment but if its how he was at Villareal hes a good player but not the best, maybe I will be proved wrong someday. But Zizu is def top 5. Robinho is def not in the top 5 he's not good enough, and judging by the other night Nesta and Pirlo arn't anymore, altho I though Maldini was still good, but Chivu is better than Nesta I think.

[lems87]

Also, I'm a massive Arsenal fan but I have to say K Toure is not up there with the best, he showed his frailties against Egypt in ACON, hes good but Gallas is better but a bad loser, Toure is not the best among defenders.

[Moishe]

To be rated as one of the best players you need to play against the best. The top ten teams in the epl, spanish, itallian, and german leagues are better than the top ten in Argentina. To be fair, i dont watch the bottom half teams in Argentina to rate how they compare to europe's bottom half, but i think it's safe to say that Fulham and Reading are better than most of them (but i cant say for sure). Riquelme has not played enough against top caliber teams this year. He has missed games for Argentina (contrary to what drknow foolishly claims) including against norway, switzerland, australia, etc. And he was nothing special against teams like san martin and gimnasia if i remember correctly. A few years ago he wouldve single-handedly picked these teams apart. So going back to my original question, how many games has he played against top competition recently? And is it enough for him to deserve inclusion as one of the top5-10 players currently?
As far as my list (not in any order):

Messi, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldinho, Iniesta, Robinho, kaka, C Ronaldo, Nesta, Pirlo, Robben, Lahm, Ribery, Gerrard, Buffon, Rooney, Klose, Totti, Joe Cole, Nistelrooy, Casillas, Toni, Mascherano, Hleb (on his good day).

-I would rate these players above Riquelme currently, and once again that is not based purely on talent. I'm pretty sure I am missing a few but as you can see that is around 23 players so Riquelme would be somewhere in the top 30, but top 10 as you mentioned is pushing it.

Edit: forgot Zanetti, Juninho, Etoo, Essien, De Rossi, and possibly zambrotta, sergio ramos, k toure, tevez, and pretty soon Benzema, Nasri, Kroos, Aguerro

enough of a list for you, Moishe?

First of all the underlined is a start. You're taking a stance on something with only the perspective of one side. You don't know South American futbol particularly that of Argentina and Brazil. Track records have proven time and time again that Arg/Brz top sides can play head to head and win against Europes top sides. This isn't opinion, it's fact based on head to head records in international tournaments. Your basis of the best play against the best is childish and silly. A great player is great regardless of where they play. Talent is talent, you've got it or you don't.

Furthermore you go on to talk about Riquelme missing matches for the national team as if he wasn't missed. You expanded on the point about how Messi filled into his role of attacking mid. Guess what? Argentina without Riquelme looked very plain and uninspired and Messi did not come close to being able to fill that role in the center. I challenge you to find one Argentine or true fan of the Albiceleste that will tell you that Messi was brilliant or at the least good in the role of Enganche.

Now let's touch on the San Martin and Gimnasia matches. How was he not special? Was it because he didn't score? In truth you clearly did not watch those matches but guess what, Riquelme was the man that made the offense click and furthermore he made the killer passes throughout both those matches. Do you fault the Enganche if the attackers don't finish? Seriously Phil did you watch those games or did you base your opinion on a stat sheet?

Let's look at your list. First let me premise back to the original question which was in post 178. "I'd like to see Phils list of 30 players that can step into Riquelmes role for both club and country." The top five to ten was based on influence which is what Hendrix and I were discussing. So based on that criteria, your list doesn't mean much. Give me those top30 that can fill Riquelme's role. Defenders, keepers and to a large degree poachers/strikers are immediately excluded. Care to try again?

[Volrath]

At the top of my head the players who could match Riquelme's influence in the final third of the pitch are: Totti, Ronaldinho, maybe Fabregas, Iniesta probably some day. That's it really, definetly not Kaka, he pretty much proved yesterday that he's next to useless as a lone CAM.

Oh and look at this (http://tieba.baidu.com/%C0%EF%BF%CB%B6%FB%C3%B7/shipin/play/af85ee43c389678ad9b9c120/) and try to tell me with a straight face that Riquelme has "lost" it.

[erick]

At the top of my head the players who could match Riquelme's influence in the final third of the pitch are: Totti, Ronaldinho, maybe Fabregas, Iniesta probably some day. That's it really, definetly not Kaka, he pretty much proved yesterday that he's next to useless as a lone CAM.

Oh and look at this (http://tieba.baidu.com/%C0%EF%BF%CB%B6%FB%C3%B7/shipin/play/af85ee43c389678ad9b9c120/) and try to tell me with a straight face that Riquelme has "lost" it.

he never lost it :D he was just in the wrong team for him. i expect him to go back to europe in two years. Do boca own him or just in a loan?

[Moishe]

he never lost it :D he was just in the wrong team for him. i expect him to go back to europe in two years. Do boca own him or just in a loan?

BOCA owns him and I really doubt he'll be playing for another club during the rest of his career.

[erick]

BOCA owns him and I really doubt he'll be playing for another club during the rest of his career.

thanks.. but idk boca is a great team but roman needs to go back to europe and prove the people that dont think he is that great wrong.

[Moishe]

thanks.. but idk boca is a great team but roman needs to go back to europe and prove the people that dont think he is that great wrong.

Your welcome;) The truth is Roman could care less what "those" people think. The truth is that he is proven. To what level is really irrelevant being that no accepted standard exists other than the pure rarely unsurpassed talent he possess. Anyone that still doesn't think he's capable of consistently playing with the best never will plain and simple.

[Hendrixforpope]

Your welcome;) The truth is Roman could care less what "those" people think. The truth is that he is proven. To what level is really irrelevant being that no accepted standard exists other than the pure rarely unsurpassed talent he possess. Anyone that still doesn't think he's capable of consistently playing with the best never will plain and simple.

Too bad he's never won a World Cup.....

[Moishe]

Too bad he's never won a World Cup.....

...yet:cool:

[Hendrixforpope]

...yet:cool:

At the age of 31? Maybe with Messi doing all the work :D

[Moishe]

At the age of 31? Maybe with Messi doing all the work :D

31 is young, just wait until you get to 39;) As far as Messi is concerned, let's just hope he plays until he's 23:eek:

[Hendrixforpope]

31 is young, just wait until you get to 39;) As far as Messi is concerned, let's just hope he plays until he's 23:eek:

Too f ucking true. He's a tortured genius.

[DerMongerer]

Aguero.....this kid has been on fire lately. He single handledly destroyed Barca the other day. On current form he deserves top5 mention imo.

[Hendrixforpope]

Aguero.....this kid has been on fire lately. He single handledly destroyed Barca the other day. On current form he deserves top5 mention imo.

Only by two goals and because Barca fell apart after the equalizer :o. He's not top 5 on the bloody planet though.

[Moishe]

Aguero.....this kid has been on fire lately. He single handledly destroyed Barca the other day. On current form he deserves top5 mention imo.

I'd agree with that. He really gets lost in the shadows in the sense that he's been pretty damn good for a while.

[Dr. Know]

Aguero is definitely top five in the U-21 category. He's the best U-21 striker in the world behind Benzema. And he's definitely catching up.

[Hendrixforpope]

Aguero is definitely top five in the U-21 category. He's the best U-21 striker in the world behind Benzema. And he's definitely catching up.

The future looks bright for Argentina (if Messi stays healthy).