The state of US Soccer fans

[FootieBloke007]

Just read this article.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/columnist/dure/2003-08-04-dure_x.htm

Has some interesting points. And also threw in a comment about those blaring horns. Those things are inescapable.

[Pyro]

State of U.S. soccer fans (mix and match):
1. Drunk
2. Complaining

[CUS]

Originally posted by Pyro
State of U.S. soccer fans (mix and match):
1. Drunk
2. Complaining
And that is different than the soccer fan elsewhere....

How?

[PissOffThen]

Originally posted by FootieBloke007
Just read this article.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/columnist/dure/2003-08-04-dure_x.htm

Makes a good point. And also threw in a comment about those blaring horns. Those things are inescapable.


Great article!

[Simon Birch]

In my opinion, fans didn't come out to the Man U matches because it was an event, but because of the caliber and quality and promise of a display on the pitch. MLS and the national team generally won't sell out until they can offer that promise. Someday, hopefully, we can.......

And someday, this thread will be moved to US Fans forum........

[PissOffThen]

Originally posted by Simon Birch
In my opinion, fans didn't come out to the Man U matches because it was an event, but because of the caliber and quality and promise of a display on the pitch. MLS and the national team generally won't sell out until they can offer that promise. Someday, hopefully, we can.......

And someday, this thread will be moved to US Fans forum........


That's crap. ManUre sold out 3 out of 4 games because they haven't toured the US for a decade and Nike owns my family. Quality of play? Sure a tad over the MLS. The National Team? That would be interesting to see. I bet my hard earned funds on OUR boys. Media Hype can do scay things!

[Simon Birch]

Originally posted by PissOffThen
That's crap. ManUre sold out 3 out of 4 games because they haven't toured the US for a decade and Nike owns my family. Quality of play? Sure a tad over the MLS. The National Team? That would be interesting to see. I bet my hard earned funds on OUR boys. Media Hype can do scay things!

MLS is a good level of play, better then European leagues like Sweden, Switzerland and many Greek, Scotish and Belgium and Danish sides. But to say Man U is a tad bit higher then MLS..........wow, ballsy sir, to say the least.

I think soccer fans in this country see the teams in the CL as elite and desperately want to see that on our shores, and therefore turn out in droves to see Milan, Barca, Juve, Man U and will do the same next year for Bayern, Liverpool and a host of others. I don't think that its the number of years between a tour (although over-saturation of certain clubs on pre-season tour might dwindle demand), but rather, the aura of the storied sides with marquee international talent.

[PissOffThen]

Originally posted by Simon Birch
MLS is a good level of play, better then European leagues like Sweden, Switzerland and many Greek, Scotish and Belgium and Danish sides. But to say Man U is a tad bit higher then MLS..........wow, ballsy sir, to say the least.

I think soccer fans in this country see the teams in the CL as elite and desperately want to see that on our shores, and therefore turn out in droves to see Milan, Barca, Juve, Man U and will do the same next year for Bayern, Liverpool and a host of others. I don't think that its the number of years between a tour (although over-saturation of certain clubs on pre-season tour might dwindle demand), but rather, the aura of the storied sides with marquee international talent.


Perhaps saying that MLS quality is just a bit lower than ManUre is a bit much....but it's better than Tottenham!

[firstandsecond]

i think most americans problems stem from not knowing the fully story of football in europe.. for ever MAN U and Arsenal there are 8 QPR's , Crystal Palace and Wimbeldons
that can barely keep afloat have crap attendence
and are not putting any not worth talent on the pitch..

the MLS considering its brief history is doing great . tv contracts. sponsers , improving play.

now the biggest factor is slowly working into more areas in the country .. as its hard for people to get behind a league that doesnt have a club in their town,,

[fusionmansteve]

firstandsecond writes...."as its hard for people to get behind a league that doesnt have a club in their town"

let me add the word 'anymore'.....MLS no longer gets my money (family season ticket holder) or viewership on television. It's just tougher to care about if you're not following your club day by day.

I think most believe, though league apologists will never admit, that the loss of Miami was a huge mistake. League should have shown Horowitz the exit door and taken over the team. Most entertaining team the league has ever seen, with the exception of a few LA sides over the years.

What a black eye.

[Colin Eager]

A black eye for whom?

The contraction hasn't stopped new stadia from being planned and built (LA, Dallas, NJ), or scared away new investors (Chivas, Denver, etc.), or damaged the league's international reputation (Howard to ManUtd). In fact, as I see it, contarction hasn't had any negative effect and the league is in better shape than ever.

So what are you talking about?

[mpruitt]

I think that may be the best Beau Dure column that I've ever read. Well done Beau, a very insightfull critique of the biggest issue in American soccer this summer.

[denver_mugwamp]

Nobody in their right mind would claim that the MLS is close to the EPL or La Liga. But I've seen enough Univision to know that they're clipping at the heels of the MFL. The Mexicans may spend two or three times the money per team but they're not getting two or three times the quality of play. Slow and steady improvement seems to be working for the MLS. 2003 will probably be remembered as the year that MLS turned the corner. There's too many positive things happening for it not to be. As the article points out, you can hire the best players in Europe and still not sell out stadiums in the US for a new NASL. The writer had the Champion's World thing in perspective. It was an event. It made a lot of money. Now it's gone. I wonder how many clubs would be able to sell as many tickets in the US as Manu U? Maybe Real Madrid. Certainly not Arsenal. Liverpool? No way. The Champion's League thing might work for a few years, but then they're going to have to come up with a new format and it will probably involve the MLS.

[dabes2]

Originally posted by PissOffThen
Perhaps saying that MLS quality is just a bit lower than ManUre is a bit much....but it's better than Tottenham!

I don't think so.

Take Chicago's lineup yesterday. Guys like Bocanegra, Beasley, Razov, Ralph and Thornton could probably compete ok in the EPL as long as they weren't trying to crack the lineup of a top club. But Curtin, CJBrown, Armas, Mapp, Whitfield, Marsh are D1/D2 quality players at this point.

Sunderland and West Ham were as talented as Chicag and got relegated. On the other hand, Charlton probably weren't as talented as West Ham and they were in the fight for Europe.

[mpruitt]

could we maybe get this thread on a topic remotely related to the article, as opposed to another MLS vs. EPL discussion. Beau brings up some really good points about the Championsworld tour. I agree with him that MLS can't really learn anything from these exhabitions, other than that maybe they should or could try to use that type of thing as a money making device. The Championsworld tour was kinda like going to a strip club. Sure you go there and enjoy yourself, appreciating the quality of the product, but you know that it's not anything close to a substanitive expierence. Where as your loved one at home might not be as attractive as an 'expert' but the expierence is much closer to your heart.

[Real Ray]

Originally posted by maxim-1 I agree with him that MLS can't really learn anything from these exhabitions, other than that maybe they should or could try to use that type of thing as a money making device.

I have to say that I don't agree with this at all, and that there is more than a whiff of petty bitterness/envy expressed by people in media and on these boards.

http://www.geocities.com/castmind/juve.html

This is a picture I took one hour before the start of the Italian Super Cup. By kickoff, the place was 50k strong, the stadium full of great atmosphere. It was the best match I have seen played this year at Giants Stadium. I watched the match from three different parts of the stadium-the shootout in sec 301, right behind the goal, where kids congregated by the rail to watch the drama.

Put yourself in the shoes of a 12-13 year-old boy. You think this event didn't make an impression-didn't raise the bar as to what he thinks is an exciting or fun soccer match? Think perhaps he didn't want his dad to buy him a Maldini or del Piero shirt after? That's where so many of you are cutting your noses to spite your face: this match was loaded with many of the qualities that provide soccer with its richness-the things that make it "the Beautiful Game."

Sadly, MLS is absent of this. What do you think that boy will think this week, when he goes to the afternoon game at the stadium to watch MetroStars in empty stadium, on a hot August afternoon, on a field painted with football lines?

Americans are different-I understand that; our expectations and attitudes will inevitably create a different fan culture. And yes, I don't need to be schooled re: the economic imperatives facing Major League Soccer. We all know this story. But there is a larger DNA that exists within the world soccer culture that IMO MLS just doesn't seem to get (or perhaps unwilling/fearful to embrace?)-that IMO is crucial to making the sport work here.

We live in a world of the internet and the dish-we see the genuine article and can compare/ measure it against our league-that is what MLS is competing against, like it or not. And that is where the lesson lies: the exposure to the world game and all of its quality, color and drama in 2003, is ubiquitous. Sitting at a Champions World match only underscores that chasm-be it a cup match or pre-season friendly w/ Real Madrid or Manchester United. Which more than the loss of a potential big DH gate, is where the real fear/anger lies with those who run MLS IMO-especially in an armchair sports culture like the USA.

[mpruitt]

You raise an interesting point that Beau did touch on in the article, that as a soccer fan we're fortunate to be able to have access to digital cable and dishes, as well as the net to follow teams and leagues from all over the world. Whether or not this creates an actual competition is another question. You may be right that people cuold be turned off by the quality of play in MLS after attending these matches. But the NASL isn't coming back any time soon, so you have a choice, watch and follow those matches on tv and the net, maybe be fortunate enough to see one of these team's summer exhabition and that's it. Still ifyou want to watch first division soccer in person on a regular basis in America MLS is still the only place to go. I personally don't think the quality of play is all that different from the preseason matches that we have seen, but that's me. Certainly I'd hope that these Euro fans don't find it repulsive.

[Real Ray]

Originally posted by maxim-1
You may be right that people cuold be turned off by the quality of play in MLS after attending these matches. But the NASL isn't coming back any time soon, so you have a choice, watch and follow those matches on tv and the net, maybe be fortunate enough to see one of these team's summer exhabition and that's it. Still ifyou want to watch first division soccer in person on a regular basis in America MLS is still the only place to go. I personally don't think the quality of play is all that different from the preseason matches that we have seen, but that's me. Certainly I'd hope that these Euro fans don't find it repulsive.

Yeah, oddly enough with the exception of the real hardcore snobs, I don't think quality is the biggest turn-off. I think it's the marked difference in stadium atmosphere and the way MLS presents the game that is a larger issue. This Ian Plenderleith
piece I think touches on this with humor:

http://www.onetouchfootball.com/usa/

[porkrind]

I certainly agree with you there - MLS has, for the most part, made the wrong moves to improve game atmosphere. However, I don't think there's anything tangible to be learned from Champions World. There was really not much effort required on the part of the promoters - put some of the best teams in the world on the field for an event not likely to be repeated until next year, and the people will show up in droves creating an electric atmosphere for the game. This is such a different situation from a regular-season MLS game, where the league has to do slightly more than show up. Sure, MLS could hire the brightest and the best from the world, have decent attendance for a year or two, bleed much more money than they are currently, and leave the sporting scene entirely with a whimper after all I/O's flee the league. No, I don't want MLS to learn that lesson.

You are correct in suggesting that the right lesson to learn is all about fan atmosphere, and I agree entirely with the article you linked to. I've been a bit put off by quiet crowds, people telling me to sit down on more than one occasion, half-empty stadiums, etc. I can still vividly remember the crowds at Barnhill Arena, where the Arkansas Razorbacks basketball team played. There were times where, as a boy, I was sure the stadium noise would cause the building to implode. Needless to say, I haven't seen an atmosphere anywhere close to that, and I also attribute that to the league's fascination with youth soccer. While that is one important demographic, I feel that it has been the focus at the expense of other possible demographics.

I think it's simply a matter of getting the right kind of sports fan to the stadium and not worrying so much about whether someone gets upset at fan behavior. A "fan-friendly" section of the stadium is really all that is needed. There's no reason to put the rest of the fans in a coma to accomodate Johnny soccer player going to his first game with mom and dad.

There's an astounding lack of effort in fan involvement - I don't see any drum corps, musicians, or spirit groups brought in. Well, there are some fan involvement groups paid by the front offices, but I haven't seen them be moderately compelling to most fans. Most of the credit for any kind of game atmosphere can be attributed the supporters groups, who yell all game long. The paid spirit groups shout insipid things like "Go" and "Team", trying to lead opposing sections of the crowd into a shouting war. They don't, and it doesn't. It's really sad. Texas high school football games have better spirit than most MLS games.

[PZ]

Originally posted by porkrind
However, I don't think there's anything tangible to be learned from Champions World. There was really not much effort required on the part of the promoters - put some of the best teams in the world on the field for an event not likely to be repeated until next year, and the people will show up in droves creating an electric atmosphere for the game Be careful though. Going to the well too often can eventually can run it dry. Look at Latin teams coming to LA. It used to be the promoters could book the the teams and the Colisuem. Send out a press release and the place would be sold out. Last season a Mid-Week Galaxy match at the Rose Bowl out drew a Pre-pre Libratoras double header (ok, I don't know what the heck a pre-pre anything is either). Now they are having to book matchs like that in Phoeix, Houston and even San Jose. ;)

Already several teams in Europe are looking at cashing in on the US. ManUres trip was probably viewed as a once in a life-time event. I can remember the first few American Bowls at Wembly when NFL teams would go over for an preseason match, used to sell out....yes, Wembley back when about half the stadium were still standing areas. Can you imagine standing to watch an entire preseason NFL match?

Bottom line, Euro teams come and go, but your local MLS team will (well, maybe not San Jose. ;)) always be there.