eXecutioner's Greatest Players Ranking System

[Twix]

The insults are not without reason. Teso does it on a constant basis in several threads, (read the 'Lampard booed' thread to see where posters got fed up with Teso's antics).
Now back to the topic, there are too many players in your list that i dont think should get inclusion over zidane (and especially not definately better than him like you claim). And wasnt it you that claimed Giggs was better than Best (astonishingly), so how come you include Best but not Giggs? where's the consistency?
Hmm..

Who shouldn't get inclusion?

On Giggs, he totally slipped my mind, you can add him in at the end if it makes you happy.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

No.

Thanks for your stunning contribution to the discussion. :rolleyes:

[comme]

It's an inherently stupid question. Di Stefano, as a player, was the polar opposite to Zidane. I'll put aside the fact that he was a far superior all round player and concentrate on the other factors. Di Sefano was the key component to his sides. He was the most influential player and his level of performance and consistency was far beyond what Zidane has produced. They both played for very good teams but, unlike Zidane, Di Stefano was never a passenger and played a crucial role in the success of his sides. All Zidane has is a couple of years at the top and a handful of good performances and/or goals in some of his bigger games. That is it and it is in no way comparable to some of the players of his own generation, let alone one of the best players to have ever played the game. Zidane is all about the aesthetics.

How do you know any of this about di Stefano?

Things you have read about him? Awards he won? Praise from other players? Trophies won? Highlights watched?

The problem with this is that any evidence you wish to point to, I could show you the same for Zidane.

That is the problem with your argument. Under any rational criteria he will feature in a list of greats.

How do you know that Di Stefano didn't go missing, how many full games of him have you actually seen?

[eXecutioner]

look if you guys want to argue about Zidane there is plenty of room to start a new thread, the bottom line is that all your arguments are opinions and that Zidane wether you like it or not won a World Cup for his country with 2 goals against Brazil in 1998, so name 250 players that have done the same, but then again he probably lost a World Cup for his country in 2006 with his poor judgement, name 250 players that have done that. So Tese i do think your comment is ridiculous nevertheless it is your opinion.

[Perú FC]

If you want Teso to take you seriously, give him some points on why Zidane is a dead cert for anyone's 250 and then maybe, just maybe his response might change.
Nobody can present an objective point of view because each one has a different form to valuing characteristics of each player, so, an opinion as Teso Dos Bichos can be respected, but I think it's really difficult to take it seriously in a discussion.

Maybe it's too advanced to our times and all the world have been deceived with exception of Teso, maybe... :D.

[milivella]

I am going to do more players and i guess we'll see if there are any more surprises.

Have you computed any new player?

---

This is the score of Mihails Zemlinskis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihails_Zem%C4%BCinskis):

Club Caps: 269 *1 =269
Country Caps: 105 *3 =315
Domestic Championships: 13 *40 =520
Club Goal (he is a defender): 57 *8 =456
Country Goal: 12 *10 =120
Total: 1,620

Almost as much as Krol (1,952)...

[eXecutioner]

Have you computed any new player?

---

This is the score of Mihails Zemlinskis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihails_Zem%C4%BCinskis):

Club Caps: 269 *1 =269
Country Caps: 105 *3 =315
Domestic Championships: 13 *40 =520
Club Goal (he is a defender): 57 *8 =456
Country Goal: 12 *10 =120
Total: 1,620

Almost as much as Krol (1,952)...

no i haven't, i just haven't any time recently, i will probably do some more later today it shouldn't take long cuz i've got a script set up

[milivella]

Jurgen Klinsmann:

Club Caps 514 *1 =514
Country Caps 108 *3 = 324
World Cup Caps 17 *5 =85
Domestic Championships 1 *40 =40
Club Continental Champs. (0 if UEFA Cup is not valid)
Country Continental Champs. 1 *150 =150
World Cup Champs. 1 *300 =300
Domestic Player of Year 3 *50 =150
Domestic Golden Boot 1 *50 =50
Club Goal 232 *2 = 464
Country Goal 47 * 4 =188
World Cup Goal 11 *8 =88

Total: 2,353. That puts him at position 20, above Didi, Moore, Best, Baresi and Krol.

[milivella]

Two players ahead of Garrincha (16th in the original ranking): Bican and Romario.

---

Josef Bican (striker)

Sources:

http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html#bican
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/worldtops.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Bican



Club Caps 358
Country Caps 47*3=141
World Cup Caps 4*5=20
Domestic Championships 8*40=320
International Golden Boot 5*100=500
Domestic Golden Boot 12*50=600
Club Goal 537*2=1,064
Country Goal 46*4=184
World Cup Goal 1*8=8
Club Continental Champs., Club Intercontinental Champs., Country Continental Champs, Country Intercontinental Champs., International Player of Year, Domestic Player of Year: nothing such at his time :(


Total: 3,195

---

Romario

Sources:

http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html#romario
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/players/player=63547/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A1rio



Club Caps 463
Country Caps 70*3= 210
World Cup Caps 8*5=40
Domestic Championships 5*40=200
Country Continental Champs. 2*150=300
Country Intercontinental Champs. 1*150=150
World Cup Champs. 1*300=300
World Cup Golden Ball 1*100=100
World Cup All-Star 1*50=50
International Player of Year 1*100=100
Domestic Player of Year 2*50=100
Domestic Golden Boot 7*50=350
Club Goal 323*2=646
Country Goal 4*56=224
World Cup Goal 5*8=40


Total: 3,273

[Mighty_Mouse]

How do you know any of this about di Stefano?

Things you have read about him? Awards he won? Praise from other players? Trophies won? Highlights watched?

The problem with this is that any evidence you wish to point to, I could show you the same for Zidane.

That is the problem with your argument. Under any rational criteria he will feature in a list of greats.

How do you know that Di Stefano didn't go missing, how many full games of him have you actually seen?

Well done.

[Cirdan]

Club caps only include league appearances, not continental cup appearances? weird, since EC titles count...

Let's try some keepers:

Olli Kahn (ongoing season not included)

club caps (league): 532*1
club caps (cl, ic): 104*0
country caps (wc not included): 78*3
country caps (wc): 8*5
club domestic championships: 7*40
club continental championships (cl only): 1*70
club intercontinental championships: 1*80
country continental championships: 1*150
world cup golden boot: 1*100
world cup all star: 1*50
clean sheets in world cups: 5*8
domestic player of the year: 2*50
-----
1676


Sepp Maier:

club caps (league): 473*1
club caps (ec+ic): 41*0
country caps (wc not included): 77*3
country caps (wc): 18*5
club domestic championships: 4*40
club continental championships (ec only): 3*70
club intercontinental championships: 1*80
country continental championships: 1*150
country world championships: 1*300
clean sheets in world cups: 8*8
domestic player of the year: 3*50
---
1908



...and 2 more Brazilians defender:

Cafu (not including current season, except for the world club championship)

club caps (league): 413*1
club caps (ec+cl): 56*0
country caps (wc not included): 136*3
country caps (wc): 20*5
club goals (league): 14*8
club goals (cl): 2*0
country goals: 5*10
country goals (wc): 0
club domestic championships: 3*40
club continental championships (cl and libertadores): 3*70
club intercontinental championships: 2*80
club world championships: 1*80
country continental championships: 2*150
country intercontinental championships (confed cup): 1*150
country world championships: 2*300
south american player of the year: 1*100
---
2803

Roberto Carlos (not including current season)

club caps (league): 466*1
country caps (wc not included): 108*3
country caps (wc): 17*5
club goals (league): 61*8
country goals: 18*10
country goals (wc): 1*12
club domestic championships: 6*40
club continental championships (cl): 3*70
club intercontinental championships: 2*80
country continental championships: 2*150
country intercontinental championships (confed cup): 1*150
country world championships: 1*300
world cup all-star 2*50
---
3015

[milivella]

Ranking so far:


Pele 5,601
Zico 5,470
Maradona 4,786
Di Stefano 4,486
Gerd Muller 4,416
Eusebio 4,289
Cruyff 3,954
Puskas 3,839
Matthaus 3,836
Platini 3,718
Beckenbauer 3,677
Bobby Charlton 3,547
Maldini 3,530
Ronaldo 3,369
Zidane 3,302
Romario 3,273
Josef Bican 3,195
Roberto Carlos 3015
Garrincha 2,891
Cafu 2803
Kocsis 2,746
Passarella 2,603
Rijkaard 2,397
Jurgen Klinsmann 2,353
Didi 2,228
Bobby Moore 2,181
George Best 2,110
Baresi 2,043
Krol 1,952
Sepp Maier 1,908
Olli Kahn 1,676
Mihails Zemlinskis 1,620


Not bad, IMO.

Players whose score I'd like to know: Zoff, Kopa, Rummenigge, Van Basten, Rivelino, Baggio.

[sardus_pater]

the system needs fine tune IMO.

achievements... yes... but, for example, I think being WC runners up is an achievement. also because it's also depending on the quality of your team mates if you win it all. Let's say I'd add 150 (or 100) pts for 2nd place in WC and 75 (or 50) pts for 2nd place in the Country Continental tournament.

also club goals... scoring in the, for example, finnish league (no disrespect intended) is not equal to scoring in the big leagues. there should be a differential based on the quality of the competition.

also, and that's a big problem, defenders are heavily undervalued. there's no way to value the defenders skill... so you end valuing defenders based on their attacking skills. which is far from being accurate.

[eXecutioner]

well here is the problem, to make it completely fair you'd have to rank the leagues for every year so that infact you are ranking the leagues too. If you want to do tackle that be my guest, but what are you going to do with the players that were stuck in the domestic league because their country would not let them leave? how are you going to rank them?

as far as deffenders being sold short, i saw this problem from the beginning which is why goals are worth less to strikers and midfielders, but the rankings are still off so the best way to go is to compare the players by positions. How else could you give points to the defenders? there are no kept records of how many clean sheets or goals defended they had

[sardus_pater]

well here is the problem, to make it completely fair you'd have to rank the leagues for every year so that infact you are ranking the leagues too. If you want to do tackle that be my guest, but what are you going to do with the players that were stuck in the domestic league because their country would not let them leave? how are you going to rank them?

I see.

what about + xx% (club caps and goals) for the english, spanish, italian, german, brasilian and argentinian leagues?

Not accurate but a step ahead in the larger timeframe IMO.

as far as deffenders being sold short, i saw this problem from the beginning which is why goals are worth less to strikers and midfielders, but the rankings are still off so the best way to go is to compare the players by positions. How else could you give points to the defenders? there are no kept records of how many clean sheets or goals defended they had

yes, defenders are tough to rank based on statistics. Big problem, no idea yet.

[Twix]

Any best player ranking that includes Zidane within the top 250 or so players is ultimately flawed.

So, it's been around two months now, you finished the list yet?

[eXecutioner]

So, it's been around two months now, you finished the list yet?

lol, he's still working on it, i think he's stuck on No. 5


as for the thread, i have no time for this so if anybody wants to hijack the idea, be my guest, most of the best players are all ready done but there are still a ton of old skool players that could brake the top 20 (Sindelar, Bican, Friendenreich, "Dixie" Dean, etc...

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I had a five page long provisional list of 190 odd players before I had to put it on the back burner. That was without any active players. Once I get some free time and I hit the magic 250 I'll post it up.

[Twix]

I had a five page long provisional list of 190 odd players before I had to put it on the back burner. That was without any active players. Once I get some free time and I hit the magic 250 I'll post it up.
...and no, I won't let this go. :D

That's three months to come up with 60 more players. Let's see them.

[comme]

You'll never see that list.

Teso has a habit of saying things and then when getting called on it, he scuttles away and tries to ignore it.